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A simple question - 5/28/2009 6:54:03 PM

JuliaGreenleaf

Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline

i want to ask a simple question.

Is it wrong to ask for clarification when negotiating with someone, and give objections to things that you think may be a problem due to physical limits (example, daily extended oral, my voicebox gets strained by this )
i have reached the point with someone where this came up - the 100 rules of submissives, ect. i believe they might be Gorean in origin.
i find i am having difficulty with Him because i am asking him a lot of questions about what my day to day life would be like - (saying for example, that i need 2 hours to get ready and look pretty in the morning.)
- and objecting to some things he wants to do (ex Watersports) - something that i feel would be possible for me, but only if i am sure i was loved and cherished.
am i a) being unsub b) carefully checking out a potential Master wisely, or c) red flag because someone seems to be offended by logical questions

Post #: 1

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 7:04:33 PM

SmokingGun82

Posts: 575
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline

I'd say B, leaning towards C. Personally, I prefer knowing things like you've mentioned (two hours to get ready, vocal chord strain) early on. There's very little that can't be worked around, if enough other things are perfect.

If he's (using male pronouns because he/she gets old) reacting with anger/disappointment to questions, I'd call it a yellow flag- proceed with caution. Maybe he's just so used to getting his own way he can't understand why someone would question him... or maybe he lives in his own little fantasy world and can't believe you'd try to ruin it like that.

_____________________________

It frightens me, the awful truth of how sweet life can be.
- Bob Dylan

Proper capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my Uncle Jack off a horse" and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse."

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 2

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 7:09:02 PM

Joseff

Posts: 505
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline

This is the stage where you ask questions, so ask. If you don't like the answers, you know what to do, its the reason you ask the questions in the first place. If he's not willing to compromise, and you can't or won't do what he wants, then you're incompatible. It happens.

_____________________________

This is gonna hurt...

Joseff

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 3

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 7:10:06 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

Julia, from your description, you're describing what kind of girl he's looking at. Absolute honesty at this point is necessary else he'll rightly complain that you misrepresented yourself.

Note that the worst outcome is not that you decide now you were incompatible. It's that you hooked up and then decided that.

That said... two freaking hours?!?!?

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 5/28/2009 7:14:58 PM >

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to SmokingGun82)

Post #: 4

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 7:11:48 PM

Huntertn

Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline

Its never wrong to ask questions..which should lead into clarfications...but[...2 hours in the morning to make yourself beautiful? Grins..However]..ask away...if a Dom can't answer them..or shy's away from answering them...I'd have to take a rather hard look overall..and I'm willing to bet most here will agree..Huntertn

(in reply to SmokingGun82)

Post #: 5

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 7:16:25 PM

serisa

Posts: 219
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

if you decide to go Gorean remember that in theory your new Master can ask what he wants of you full stop. Having said that this is your chance whilst you are un owned to find someone who sounds compatible for you. Ask whatever questions you need and find out whatever you can to base your decision. Depending on how far you go the choices you make now could well be your last unless you ask for release

i like you, although never done it personally, have a desire for water sports. But only in the confines of a loving D's relationship as i see it as a highly intimate thing to do. Say what you need whilst you have the choices open to you

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 6

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 7:16:37 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

YOu're not owned by him, it doesn't even sound like you're seeing him or even met in real life yet.

If you're still just getting to know someone you have every right to object or question as much as you like.

This isn't any different than meeting a person anywhere else. You talk, get to know each other and see if you're compatible.

If you feel you're not then just move on. Isn't that what you would do with anyone else? Why is this different?

(in reply to Huntertn)

Post #: 7

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 7:48:06 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

@Julia:

You have every right to be happy, as does he. I'd be leary of anyone pulling up some prefab rulesheet for submission. Unless you are a prefab submissive, then prefab rules are not likely to work for you. Such a list kind of sounds like he's more interested in some fantasy than you as a living breathing human being.

As another said, if the guy is of the gorean bent, then he's talking about slavery... you do what he says... no questions asked. I wouldn't even dream of getting involved in something like that until I knew the person very very well. Being able to pull it off indicates a broad base of compatibility and some fairly huge amounts of trust.

In the end, you are never wrong for asking for clarification. Assuming I want Carol to serve me well, then she needs to thoroughly understand what's in my head. Same goes for you. But it sounds to me like "clarification" isn't what you're after. It sounds to me like he just plain wants more than you are prepared to give at this time. Judging from your responses, it also sounds to me like he's going too far, too fast.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 8

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 7:48:48 PM

SexyBlackMan2

Posts: 108
Status: offline

Clarifications are never a bad thing - especially in the beginning of your journey. I would say that you from the sound of things the two of you may not be a match even though you want to please your Dom.

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 9

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 7:59:41 PM

cagliostro

Posts: 128
Joined: 12/29/2007
Status: offline

OP:

It is not wrong to ask clarification. I may not like having to clarify, but I guarantee I'll be more upset if it's done wrong. As to limits, if a dom ignores limits he's a fake and you should show him the door. If they aren't willing to work with your limits, and if you want pushing them further and further, they're wrong for you. A good dom works with you the ways you can handle. If yours doesn't do that, he needs to work on himself.

Yes it is a red flag. I don't know your situation exactly, so I can't say what it really is. But not respecting limits is a huge red flag. Even if you want those limits pushed, that's the kind of thing that is pushed when the trust is reached. A good dom will wait until that level of trust is reached. Good dom's don't harm. We may push at times, but only when we believe it is in both our interest and particularly when we believe you can handle it. Respect yourself. Respect your boundaries. They will loosen the more you trust your dom. That is the time to push them, not before.

I always err on the side of caution. Harm is the opposite of everything I am. Ask yourself, does this make me uncomfortable? If so, ask yourself, is it for my good? If it's a no & no, you have a problem.

(in reply to SexyBlackMan2)

Post #: 10

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 8:09:54 PM

MstrPBK

Posts: 573
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline

I agree a simple question or even a discussion to clarify an issue is ok.

But what bothers ME is the slave who wants every scenario tacked down like a book or a script. My style of being a Master is about being consistent while looking at things on a case by case basis. One can not script the tapestry of life - life just happens.

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA

(in reply to cagliostro)

Post #: 11

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 9:59:39 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

Everyone's already chiming in with fine answers.

This is absolutely the time to ask questions and determine if he's an acceptable and good-match person to be surrendering to. This is the time frame where it's up to you to determine if you can be the sub he wants (which should consequently vibe from the sub you want to be). If he gets offended because you're being honest about whether you can provide what he's seeking...then it's definitely a red flag of someone who's just desperate to dominate anyone rather than someone.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 5/28/2009 10:01:03 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
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(in reply to MstrPBK)

Post #: 12

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 10:12:26 PM

JuliaGreenleaf

Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline

We had a semi long chat - he seemed more fine with the questions- though not precisely as explicative as i wanted.
He is very controlling - that's the idea.. permission for just about everything (including using the washroom).
I am not sure i am entirely into watersports - thinking about that one.
I am not sure i am entirely into how do i put it - needing to ask permission for practical life maintence things that i just want to do and not bother people with.
It is a very submissive act to do so . Part of me feels it is right - it pleases - part of me questions :is this simply too impractical a way of living life ?
id love to hear general opinions and stuff. i feel strange... my mind feels scattered from being controlled.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 13

RE: A simple question - 5/28/2009 10:21:38 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JuliaGreenleaf

i feel strange... my mind feels scattered from being controlled.

If this is how you are naturally feeling before the relationship has even begun, how do you suppose you'll find yourself feeling 2 months down the road? 5? 12?

You should have a relatively thorough understanding of what it is you want long before you decide if you can provide what another is seeking.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 14

RE: A simple question - 5/29/2009 1:24:56 AM

Malkinius

Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline

Greetings JuliaGreenleaf....

quote:

ORIGINAL: JuliaGreenleaf
i want to ask a simple question.

Is it wrong to ask for clarification when negotiating with someone, and give objections to things that you think may be a problem due to physical limits (example, daily extended oral, my voicebox gets strained by this )
i have reached the point with someone where this came up - the 100 rules of submissives, ect. i believe they might be Gorean in origin.
i find i am having difficulty with Him because i am asking him a lot of questions about what my day to day life would be like - (saying for example, that i need 2 hours to get ready and look pretty in the morning.)
- and objecting to some things he wants to do (ex Watersports) - something that i feel would be possible for me, but only if i am sure i was loved and cherished.
am i a) being unsub b) carefully checking out a potential Master wisely, or c) red flag because someone seems to be offended by logical questions

I have seen those rules and they are not Gorean at all. Anything that says "submissive" on it will not be Gorean.

Anyone who doesn't check out as much as they can is asking for trouble. No, you can not ask all possible questions and no one knows all the answers up front. Some things will only come up when they happen. This is normal and not something to worry about. The people who just say, "Trust me," can't be. Not without some proof that they are trustworthy. Sometimes that proof is hard to get without trusting them to some point. As they say, trust but verify.

On the final point. As long as you are unowned, you are responsible for making the best and most informed choices you can. After you are owned, then the choices, or some of them, may not be your own any more.

Be well....

Malkinius

_____________________________

A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com The goal is community.

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 15

RE: A simple question - 5/29/2009 1:54:06 AM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JuliaGreenleaf

We had a semi long chat - he seemed more fine with the questions- though not precisely as explicative as i wanted.
He is very controlling - that's the idea.. permission for just about everything (including using the washroom).
I am not sure i am entirely into watersports - thinking about that one.
I am not sure i am entirely into how do i put it - needing to ask permission for practical life maintence things that i just want to do and not bother people with.
It is a very submissive act to do so . Part of me feels it is right - it pleases - part of me questions :is this simply too impractical a way of living life ?
id love to hear general opinions and stuff. i feel strange... my mind feels scattered from being controlled.

Julia,
You have to think about this in practical terms. Forget all the D/s stuff and worrying about what you are "supposed" to do. You are two people who are trying to figure out if you are compatible. If you haven't met the guy yet, how do you know you will even have basic chemistry?

No Dominant can reasonably expect a "made to order" submissive.

No submissive can reasonably expect a "made to order" Dominant.

It seems to me that your gut instinct is telling you that you to make certain this relationship is the right fit for you before you jump into it.

Your gut instinct is 100% correct! EFFECTIVE, OPEN COMMUNICATION!! You make sure every single question you have is answered and you are 100% clear as It to his expectations. Conversely, you need to make sure he is 100% clear as to who you are and your expectations as well.

When people in a relationship are clear about their needs and expectations, and make the other person feel like they can safely be honest about their thoughts... WOW! The possibilities for success are endless!

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 16

RE: A simple question - 5/29/2009 2:04:20 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JuliaGreenleaf

i want to ask a simple question.

Is it wrong to ask for clarification when negotiating with someone, and give objections to things that you think may be a problem due to physical limits (example, daily extended oral, my voicebox gets strained by this )
i have reached the point with someone where this came up - the 100 rules of submissives, ect. i believe they might be Gorean in origin.
i find i am having difficulty with Him because i am asking him a lot of questions about what my day to day life would be like - (saying for example, that i need 2 hours to get ready and look pretty in the morning.)
- and objecting to some things he wants to do (ex Watersports) - something that i feel would be possible for me, but only if i am sure i was loved and cherished.
am i a) being unsub b) carefully checking out a potential Master wisely, or c) red flag because someone seems to be offended by logical questions

I would do exactly the same were I in your shoes i.e. being as confident as possible that it's the right move.

What you haven't mentioned is the response garnered from your questions.

It seems to me you're prepared to compromise: "I could do it but only where I feel appreciated" (which is a common approach by the way). Were I you I'd be understanding whether or not he has it within him to compromise.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 5/29/2009 2:05:56 AM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 17

RE: A simple question - 5/29/2009 2:20:47 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Is it wrong to ask for clarification

I personally have a problem with people who have rules the partner hasn't agreed to. I actually use a checklist with a new sub/slave, so I have a good understanding where the poor girl

is at, and she understand what is important / of interest to me. I think you're looking at (B as well as (C - the latter if you wish to be in a situation with mitigated risk, which he clearly will not enable. As to your "feeling cherished" part, that's emotional, and really doesn't fit into a contract that well, that is to me more a "playing by ear" thing. Having said that, I cannot conceive of not cherishing a willing participant sub or slave.

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 18

RE: A simple question - 5/29/2009 2:22:40 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

the 100 rules of submissives, ect. i believe they might be Gorean in origin

In general, I believe that anybody using rules they copied out of a book or off a website is somewhat devoid of creativity. We all get inspiration from things we see or read, but that isn't the same as using someone else's concepts.

(in reply to JuliaGreenleaf)

Post #: 19

RE: A simple question - 5/29/2009 3:54:16 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

If you need greater clarification and he can't give that, I'd think it over.
Personally anyone who handed me a copy of the 128 slave rules would be shown the door. That's a sign of someone looking to have a fantasy fulfilled and not have a relationship. Because submissives aren't Christmas cookies, all cut out the same waiting to be identically iced. We're individual people and each is different from each other.

I would ask him how many longterm relationships he has had that required a sub jumping up and down with legs crossed begging to be allowed to go to the bathroom, and what happened when he didn't listen to the request or said no. And is that an end result you're interested in.

Micromanagement of that sort is for me something relegated to a fun weekend, not for daily life.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 20

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