RE: Undermining a Good Foundation

RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive

Message

RavenMuse -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/29/2009 5:44:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Interestingly, none of this is a control issue for me. For me, I need the information if I'm to do a good job managing her and us. Ergo, she is required to provide it. And I wouldn't tolerate the "I won't" because of the disobedience implied (although there is that too). I wouldn't have tolerated that from her as my vanilla wife. I need the information to do My job and if she is refusing to communicate that info then SHE is controling/hindering My ability to effectivly fulfill a big part of My responcibility. If I liked having My hands tied I'd be a switch, I'm not, I hate it. I take My responcibilitys seriously and I require My girl to work with Me not against Me. We both are getting to the same endpoint just viewing the control issue as a lesser or greater impact on that dependent on how Our individual relationship Dynamics function.

lovingpet -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/29/2009 6:07:40 PM)
I am learning a lot here myself. Am I to take it, then, that BOTH parties have been undermining the very trust they were attempting to build? Or was it one sided? lovingpet

RavenMuse -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/29/2009 6:40:27 PM)
Personaly trying to assign blame isn't the direction I'd see as being the most helpful. Once both partys recognise what has been going on it is upto both to work towards overcoming it. Maybe it is because I've been doing this a lot of years now and been at the start of more relationships with subs and slaves than I care to count, but it is something I watch for to ensure I catch when it is happening..... sometimes it is delibrate (And those are unsuitable, they stop it or they are out the door in short order) but mostly they don't realise (Hence I don't apportion blame, it is simply something WE need to work on). As you get to know someone there are tell tail signs, body language when there is something up. I question it directly and don't take an answer of "Nothing's up" at face value. I'll push and often I find the girl does have something on her mind and she just doesn't know how to find the words. Then it is a case of trying to find out if there is anything about what it is they can give you to get in the right ballpark in order to try and help them find the words. Often a little break (But them knowing it hasn't been dropped and WILL be raised later) helps, as does seeing if they can maybe write about all or some of it and then you can discuss what is written. The girl needs to try her best to communicate, The Master needs to help her... that includes pushing if He needs to. Forcing the issue rather than just letting it slide. Not the easy option but who said this was easy?

lovingpet -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/29/2009 6:50:32 PM)
Oh, I agree that there is nothing easy about where they are. Hell, there's nothing easy about where I am finding myself at the moment. I have no particular interest in blame. My concern is that both are able to recognize behavior that is not working and be able to adjust accordingly. Both were quite adamant that HIS practices were at issue. Then again, if she had been open with him and explained to him how this was impacting her, things may have been handled much sooner. I knew there were layers to this I was not seeing. That's why I wanted input. I do the best I can when friends ask for help. If I don't think I have a full picture, I ask for help in that. In this case, it is going to beneficial to my own relationships. That is something I didn't count on. I am thankful for that! lovingpet

leadership527 -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/29/2009 7:57:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse We both are getting to the same endpoint just viewing the control issue as a lesser or greater impact on that dependent on how Our individual relationship Dynamics function. nods I'm sorry if it sounded like I meant anything differfent. in fact, that's exactly why I thought it was so interestig. The endpoint and even some of the reasoning is the same. In the differences is where I suspect I'll find interesting things to learn.

DavanKael -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/29/2009 10:12:05 PM)
I love mindf&ks; far more important and interesting to me than most (And, upon immediate contemplation, I would say all) specific physical acts. Thing is, no one would be in a position to truly mindf&k me if they weren't already firmly entrenched in my skull. It's wholly reasonable that a person, early into a relationship (Not necessarily speaking chronologically here) would not 'give it all up' immediately. I surely wouldn't and I invest seriously when I invest in a relationship. Davan

DesFIP -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 6:16:28 AM)
Part of the reaon she can't give it all up is she knows his immediate response will be to use this information against her in one of his mind fucks. And although he hasn't carried any of these things out yet she obviously believes he is capable of doing so. Because if she believed he was just kidding, the mind fucks wouldn't work on her. So he wants her to give up her deepest fears so he can torture her with them, and she should do so believing his first response is to break these hard limits? Not the way to build trust in my book.

lovingpet -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 7:34:41 AM)
Actually, from my discussions with her, she knows perfectly well this is NOT the case. Despite the magnitude that they have played in this area, she has given him small things that were entirely too sensitive for playing around with and he has respected that. No one has ever said anything about violating hard limits. They don't really do limits, but lines she has voiced concern about crossing, they haven't and won't. He has been using this tool as part of ongoing efforts to understand her better. She responds wildly to these specific areas, but she vehemently claims she has no interest in them. You see how confusing this could get? He needs some clarity as much as she does, maybe more. It really comes down to timing for the specific play. The relationship is just too new. He is not firmly planted in her head or trusted to the level needed to do this without damage to the relationship. They realize this and are finding other ways to amuse themselves and working very hard on this intimate core. lovingpet

FawneTwo -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 8:33:13 AM)
" She finds it unfair to drop convoluted thought in his lap and expect him to untangle them for her. " Very insightful, thanks . I've experience in what you describe. I'll gather my thoughts before writing now.

lovingpet -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 8:59:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FawneTwo " She finds it unfair to drop convoluted thought in his lap and expect him to untangle them for her. " Very insightful, thanks . I've experience in what you describe. I'll gather my thoughts before writing now. Read especially what Leadership and RavenMuse have had to say in response to that, however. That's what I found insightful and doesn't leave room for an excuse to withhold thoughts anymore. lovingpet

agirl -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 10:02:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet quote: ORIGINAL: FawneTwo " She finds it unfair to drop convoluted thought in his lap and expect him to untangle them for her. " Very insightful, thanks . I've experience in what you describe. I'll gather my thoughts before writing now. Read especially what Leadership and RavenMuse have had to say in response to that, however. That's what I found insightful and doesn't leave room for an excuse to withhold thoughts anymore. lovingpet This is where having some kind of longevity helps. I certainly don't tell M everything ALL the time: not even worrying or tricky things. I drop them in his lap when I've got a grasp of WHAT I'm fretting about. It's not that i don't think it's fair, it simply isn't helpful to do it. He knows that if I have a problem, a worry or concern, and NEED his help to unravel it, then I WILL ask. I don't deny myself the best resource I have. He knows that eventually I WILL talk, at length...but at the point that I need to, not just because. If he decides that the point is now, then everything I said above should be ignored.....lol The problem often lies in withholding worries, out of some sense of protecting the dom, not wanting to be a bother or trying to protect the image of being a good slave. It only ensures that a facade is being built. There's no correct way of knowing or doing this because it is entirely down to what you've got, what you've built and what you built ON. If I'm reluctant to talk about something with him, my mind skips straight to the WHY?. I'm NEVER ignorant of thatWHY?. I might not want to tell HIM the WHY?.....but I always know what it is. HE knows it, I know it. And he will ask....And I can't escape the question with an * I don't know... And he will see through any fumbling and any half-cocked responses.........because he KNOWS me. So eventually, you end up with having no room for it. It just stops being productive, even if it's uncomfortable, it becomes BETTER to do it than NOT to do it. agirl

FawneTwo -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 10:15:33 AM)
Always passionate food for thought Thanks!

FawneTwo -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 1:23:50 PM)
Oops i don't know the story behind the OP. Sorry. I learned that - for me at least - take time to think, centered and calm. Hope for logic and fair reason before flailing into an emotional reaction ( even if buttons are pushed) . I don't think this would be withholding( maybe I'm wrong?). I hope the balance is mutually considerate. neither of us are/were any type of saint.

lovingpet -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 8:44:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet quote: ORIGINAL: FawneTwo " She finds it unfair to drop convoluted thought in his lap and expect him to untangle them for her. " Very insightful, thanks . I've experience in what you describe. I'll gather my thoughts before writing now. Read especially what Leadership and RavenMuse have had to say in response to that, however. That's what I found insightful and doesn't leave room for an excuse to withhold thoughts anymore. lovingpet The problem often lies in withholding worries, out of some sense of protecting the dom, not wanting to be a bother or trying to protect the image of being a good slave. It only ensures that a facade is being built. I think this is exactly what she was doing with all the best of intentions, but it did exactly as you stated. It didn't matter that it was her way of trying to not disturb whatever he was trying to accomplish through this. She wanted to just be able to handle what was going on inside of her without having to come to him hopelessly lost in the whole thing, but that is not how it worked out. She wound up isolating herself and severing herself from the very control that she wanted to preserve in the first place. Someone has stated off boards that this likely goes a lot deeper than just some simple thing like just don't play like that anymore. The dichotomy of her feelings reflects, perhaps, a dissonance between what she desires and what is realistically possible. I tend to agree that this plays into it. Life would change in ways that it just is not able to if the game became reality. As much as she may want it to be reality, there are very legitimate reasons why not. They both know this. They don't like it, but they know the simply must accept how things are. Should this resolve in a way that allowed things to go forward, perhaps really doing what is now a game would actually be beautiful and wonderful. Until things set up that way, however, it is better left untouched. A lot of things could be playing into this. Thanks for all the input! lovingpet

xxblushesxx -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 9:10:47 PM)
I believe that these things can come with time...given the opportunities and the inclination on both sides. Quite honestly, I wouldn't want to know EVERYTHING about someone right away; in fact, for most of us, if it were all thrust upon us all at once, we'd be taken aback, and probably not as interested. It's very satisfying to peel back the layers, and to learn about each other gradually as time goes by. Just don't become stagnant. That's the trick!

Timesamyth -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 10:41:01 PM)
(((("The dominant LOVES big mental play. I am not talking about incidental or session length stuff. I am talking about toying in areas that would have major life impacts on them both and others in their lives. She LOVES it. She eats it up and plays into his hand every single time. It is part of the overall intensity to her. Interestingly enough, it seems to be hindering the building of trust between them." )))) --Could someone translate this into a black and white example for me, please? (sorry, not trying to hijack). I've been following this board closely but I find myself stuck. The gist of it is obvious enough....but I can't seem to grasp what types of mental play would have such an impact on Jack and Jill's 'ship. In more condensed language......what is 'deep water mental play' vs 'non-deep water' ? (specifically).

xxblushesxx -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/30/2009 11:47:02 PM)
I'm just guessing here; maybe he takes pics of her in a collar doing something very slavelike and kinky, and threatens to send them to her boss/family/neighbors if she doesn't ...? But doesn't really mean to go through with it. That's my guess.

FawneTwo -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/31/2009 12:47:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet Now to my curiosity. I am curious to know how mental play (more commonly mind*#%!s) affect your trust in your dominant partner. When was it introduced? How did it help or hinder the forming of the relationship's foundation? Feel free to address this beyond these questions, but I am interested in how other submissives process such play. I really have no interest in opinions about how this couple plays, the individuals, or anything of the sort. Dominants with experience relating to this, please by all means chime in. The Q. is simply about mindfucks? Ohhhhh OK ( do decipher whole post next time f.)

lovingpet -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (5/31/2009 5:13:29 PM)
I absolutely will not disclose the exact nature of the game. It is pretty out there. Think in term of potentially destroying all those kinds of areas that are often exploited in a blackmail senario, but without it. Think in terms of the outcome being evidence of her lifestyle choice so obvious nothing can hide it. Think that this thing would mean a permanent bond whether they wished to continue together in the future or not. That is as specific as I can get I'm afraid. lovingpet

DesFIP -> RE: Undermining a Good Foundation (6/1/2009 6:32:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet Actually, from my discussions with her, she knows perfectly well this is NOT the case. He has been using this tool as part of ongoing efforts to understand her better. She responds wildly to these specific areas, but she vehemently claims she has no interest in them. You see how confusing this could get? He needs some clarity as much as she does, maybe more. lovingpet She may know intellectually that he wouldn't really do these things, but she does believe it on an emotional level. Again, if she didn't believe he was capable of doing it, the mind fucks wouldn't work. Instead she'd just stare at him and say "yeah sure" or some such remark. So her emotions are telling her one thing and her intellect is telling her something else. Which is she to believe? No wonder she's confused. But if they table this kind of play for some time, until the relationship is deeper, by then she will know he won't ever do these things and saying them probably won't produce the desired reaction. The only way this kind of fear play works if you believe your partner is capable of cutting you with a knife, sending photos of you all clamped up to your boss, or whatever he's been saying. If she's picked a really good guy, then once she realizes he is honest and decent to his core, she won't believe he's capable of this. If after some years together she does believe he's capable of these things which he knows she doesn't want him to really do, then he isn't a good and decent man. In the beginning when you don't know your partner all that well is when this stuff is most effective.

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

6.152344E-02