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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/2/2009 11:01:49 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Personally I don't see what is so wrong with the thread title. Why is it so provocative? What is so wrong with it? What is wrong with calling a spade a spade? The guy is an religious extremist who carried out a terrorist attack in the name of his twisted beliefs, how does that differ from the 9/11 attackers? The only difference is one of scale. Sure the title of the thread caught our attention, but that is the purpose of a thread title. I think Philosophy has struck a nerve here, but I agree with him, this was an act of christian terrorism, plain and simple.


Like I said, I don't see a problem.  I was reacting to Phils comment of 'read more slowly' to butch.   (This is so not what the thread is about)  It was invidious to a minority... otherwise it could just be about the shooting, not guessing before the facts were brought up.  Nothing wrong with being provocative - just own up to it and share responsibility... or look at your own words and see why people might have a nerve struck.  Doesn't mean you have to change the way you post, just helps prepare oneself in the future.
 
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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/2/2009 11:12:06 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

So this is the first terrorist attack on U.S. soil under Obama's watch.

Actually, I think this was. Still one born within the borders of the country, though.



That was a failed attack, Obama gets credit for that one.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/2/2009 11:24:40 AM   
JonnieBoy


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Status: offline 		Not that I'm in any way qualified (according to the fucking god squad only) ... this is definitely terrorism by any conceivable stretch of the definition (the retard "Bush" IS the exception but he's not human so it don't count)

Pirate

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/2/2009 11:52:36 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
If a Muslim commits murder in the name of their religion in order to change something in the world, it gets called terrorism. If a Christian commits murder in the name of their religion to change something in the world........well, i call it terrorism. Because what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.


Phil, I don't deny it is christian terrorism.  The more information that is gleamed pretty much points to it from my perspective.  My point is that posting that title as you did was provocative.  So wither you knew that or you were far more naive than my impression of you.  It's either a learning experience you are going through, or you are denying the impact your words had.  That decision is your choice.
 
A terrorist attempts to cause change by fear.  Sure there are christians that do that.  No I don't believe muslims should be singled out - after all, like you, I grew up in the UK at a time where people routinely were murdered or lost their homes and communities because of Northern Ireland.
 
the.dark.

 
.........and i remember picking glass out of hair after the IRA bombed the Telecom Tower in london. i'm quite aware of how terrorism works.
The original thread title was 'christian terrorism?'. Which usually means , 'Is this Christian Terrorism?'. Subsequent facts have confirmed that it was.......despite Kdsubs claims that terrorism can't be perpetrated by individuals, only groups acting in concert.
i'll also point you to post #3 on this thread where, responding to The Heretic, i expressed my hope that it wasn't Christian terrorism. i was to be disappointed.
As for me, every experience is a learning process........however, what i've learned from this experience is that a number of people will work very hard to make sure that the focus of this discussion is on the thread title rather than the issue itself. Which, in a roundabout way, justifies the decision to use the title. People have slung the term Islamic terrorism around with abandon. Some of those same people don't want to apply the same burden of definition when it comes to Christians engaging in terrorism.
i ask you to examine why you have focussed so much on my 'provocative' thread title rather than the issue i have raised.
As for Kdsub, they have consistently in this thread misrepresented things i've written and been personally rude to me. Read more carefully was, in my view, a polite response to their illogical vitriol.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/2/2009 11:54:29 AM   
JonnieBoy


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Status: offline 		What is worse (if you are in the USA) is it's religious terrorism ... sound familiar yet?

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Profile   Post #: 165
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/2/2009 12:02:28 PM   
JonnieBoy


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Status: offline 		Terrorism is not a concept that the US has truly grasped yet (photography was black and white once guys, remember?), this may be some years in the process, however, some "speed reading" practice right now would not be disadvantageous!

Pirate

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Profile   Post #: 166
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/2/2009 12:22:50 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
i ask you to examine why you have focussed so much on my 'provocative' thread title rather than the issue i have raised.



I answered the issues for one.  Like I said, christian terrorism exists - and gave an example using N. Ireland.  I also consider Iraq to be a form of christian terrorism due to Bushs' insistance of bringing 'god' into it.  I agreed with your discussion on what terrorism is as well.  How is that ignoring what you raised?  I challenge you or anyone else to go back and look and still insist that I did not.
 
I haven't 'focused' on the title, I have focused on responding to people who made the point of addressing me directly.  I discussed their questions or comments - it is not my decisions what is asked - it is my decision to answer all the personal threads responding to me that I notice or those that quoted me - because to me it would be impolite to ignore an individual.  If my only 'crime' is trying to be all inclusive as best I can, then I am happy with that in this context.
 
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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/2/2009 12:26:06 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

  I challenge you or anyone else to go back and look and still insist that I did not.
 

 
....fair enough. i must have missed it. Which post did you address my assertion that if it ok to call 9/11  Islamic Terrorism then it is equally apposite to call this Christian Terrorism?

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/2/2009 12:44:44 PM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
I also consider Iraq to be a form of christian terrorism due to Bushs' insistance of bringing 'god' into it.


Same here, I fear though it will be too long before the "crusade" is diffused and the definition of "holy" in terms of war is subject to effective translation.

Pirate
[consult US press release records for how long the "mission" would (initial forecasts)(past tense) last, before challenging the use of the term "crusade",check out some "royal" English history too, for how costly "crusades" really are(and how long your state can get unexpectedly burdened by them)]

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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/2/2009 3:39:10 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

  I challenge you or anyone else to go back and look and still insist that I did not.
 

 
....fair enough. i must have missed it. Which post did you address my assertion that if it ok to call 9/11  Islamic Terrorism then it is equally apposite to call this Christian Terrorism?


I agreed by stating that I believe christian terrorism exists.  If this was linked to the attacks on the clinic and offices and is a continuous series of events, with an agenda to stop late term abortions using fear tactics, it's just as much terrorism as 9/11.  Just a different religion and/or political angle (seeing as this could also be an option).  If that was previously too vague for you, I hope this clears it up.
 
the.dark.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 10:59:27 AM   
Truthiness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Those damn Atheists may well turn out to be the worst of the bunch. After all, how many did Stalin kill?

And that's just to start...

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Yep all religions are dangerous, especiall those Taoist and Buddhist. ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

It is sad, but where there is religion, there are always the nutjobs who use the religion as a justification for their actions. In every case, it is the actions of the extreme minority worldwide that ruin it for everyone else.

I just wonder sometimes, how many people exist within religions that would be of interest to the physchiatry profession, maybe religious extremists are the ones the men in white coats have'nt got their hands on yet.





Ah, but Stalin wasn't a true atheist. Isn't that what christians like to do to defend their extreme brethren? They claim that they're not true christians. Quick and easy way to absolve themselves.


Or maybe they really aren't true Christians? It takes a lot more to be a Christian than just going to church and saying you are....and on top of that lots of people will claim to be something for no other reason than to try and use it to garner support.

Like the Fred Phelps cult in Topeka is certainly not a Christian group...they just claim to be to try and further their hate based beliefs.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 11:02:34 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness
Or maybe they really aren't true Christians? It takes a lot more to be a Christian than just going to church and saying you are....and on top of that lots of people will claim to be something for no other reason than to try and use it to garner support.

Like the Fred Phelps cult in Topeka is certainly not a Christian group...they just claim to be to try and further their hate based beliefs.

Practicing your "No true Scotsman" fallacy or is this really serious?

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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 11:04:12 AM   
Truthiness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

....you're quite right. It all comes down to definitions. So, let's start with Christian in this context. Someone who uses the bible, or quotes from it, to support their actions or ideology.


I have an issue with that definition. After all...if you read the Bible you'd see that Satan fits that definition too, quoting scripture to further his actions...so by your logic Satan is a Christian.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 11:06:26 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness


quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Ah, but Stalin wasn't a true atheist. Isn't that what christians like to do to defend their extreme brethren? They claim that they're not true christians. Quick and easy way to absolve themselves.


Or maybe they really aren't true Christians? It takes a lot more to be a Christian than just going to church and saying you are....and on top of that lots of people will claim to be something for no other reason than to try and use it to garner support.

Like the Fred Phelps cult in Topeka is certainly not a Christian group...they just claim to be to try and further their hate based beliefs.


Is it my imagination or did you just prove his point?

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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 11:10:43 AM   
Truthiness


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Status: offline 		Not at all. I disputed it.

Jesus after all did warn us many would come falsely using his name. I'm just pointing out that just *maybe* those falsely using his name might not actually be Christian. Don't see why that's so hard to fathom.

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 11:12:10 AM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		OK Truthi, what then is a christian?

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Profile   Post #: 176
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 11:12:26 AM   
Truthiness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness
Or maybe they really aren't true Christians? It takes a lot more to be a Christian than just going to church and saying you are....and on top of that lots of people will claim to be something for no other reason than to try and use it to garner support.

Like the Fred Phelps cult in Topeka is certainly not a Christian group...they just claim to be to try and further their hate based beliefs.

Practicing your "No true Scotsman" fallacy or is this really serious?



Are you actually asserting that all it takes to be a Christian is to claim to be one? The Bible certainly disagrees.

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Profile   Post #: 177
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 11:18:45 AM   
Truthiness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

OK Truthi, what then is a christian?


The greek word Christianos simply means "follower of Christ."

There's a lot more to being a Christian in the Bible but that's enough for this discussion.

So I guess you'd just have to show me where Christ tells us to commit terrorism to convince me that these "terrorists" were followers of Christ.

< Message edited by Truthiness -- 6/5/2009 11:20:04 AM >

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RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 11:19:07 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

OK Truthi, what then is a christian?

The only "true" christian is the one you happen to be talking to at the moment.


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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: christian terrorism? - 6/5/2009 11:28:47 AM   
Truthiness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

OK Truthi, what then is a christian?

The only "true" christian is the one you happen to be talking to at the moment.



Or maybe you could just educate yourself on what a Christian actually is instead of going by assumptions. ;)

That said...if someone strapped a bomb to themselves and ran into a day care center quoting Obama the whole time...would you REALLY be so eager to call it "Obama-led terrorism?"

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Profile   Post #: 180
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