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RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/3/2009 8:36:15 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		We do incarcerate more people than they do in China, but don't they just shoot them in China?  Or send them to some gulag? 

I have mellowed on a lot of things, and experience has changed me.  I have gotten more cynical about many things.  Do NOT get me started on the whole health insurance debacle.  My insurance costs are crippling.  Should I drop the insurance, and go off the medication that allows me to function?  Or stay on the meds, keep working and earning, but giving it all to the insurance companies?

I have never been worried about the future before.  I am now.  I don't feel *unprepared* or that I won't be able to deal with whatever changes come down, but I look ahead at the global situation, look at the truly paltry education our young people are recieving, look at the widening class distinctions, and I am worried.



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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/3/2009 9:35:52 AM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Number 1: I have changed my views on the death penalty. I used to vehemently support it. I think I was wrong. I keep reading about folks that were innocent on death row. It bothers me. I am not excusing what the guilty killers did, but I think life in a 23 hour lockdown cell is punishment enough. I'd rather be dead. But most important, I'd rather be sure that we have the right guy. Apparently we've been fucking up in that area.


SFP:  Yes, 23 hours a day  without the possibility of parole  seems  like better punishment  than  the death penalty.  It also gives society the opportunity to correct mistakes in the jury system.  Also, I believe the death penalty is more expensive.



Number 2: I think our entire criminal justice system needs to be revamped. A lot of you know why I think that; I have personal reasons for it. But block that out for a second....We incarcerate more people than any nation on Earth. We incarcerate more folks than Communist China with a population well over a billion. What the fuck is wrong with us? Are we that sick? WE seriously lock up the most people in the WORLD? Why are we doing that? Do you think we may need to make some radical changes in our criminal justice system?


SFP:  Yes, one of the less discussed  problems relates to the judges.  For instance we had one judge here who ran to the prosecutor's office every time the defense attorney said anything in privacy and looked through the defense's file when he had a chance. An impartial jurest?

Number 3: Drugs. Why don'd we just legalize the damn things? We operate a tobacco, alcohol, and pharmaceutical industry that makes trillions of dollars. But we make poor Columbian farmers the enemy. We can solve this, and we don't need the military or law enforcement to do it.

SFP: I agree and a number of police officers also agreed here in public.  However, many lost their jobs for being honest.  Freedom of speach is not cheap.

Number 4: Our medical industry. Why in the hell can't we insure EVERYONE? Other countries do it for less of a cost. Please don't give me that wait in line bullshit....I've read other studies that disprove it. Everyone in a modern society deserves medical care. We aren't Oliver Twist begging for a extra bowl of gruel. We should have this.

SFP:  I paid premiums in my 20's, 30's, 40, and half of my 50's.  When I finally needed insurance, insurance had run away.  I am glad others are seeing this.  It is not just those trying to get something for nothing.  You pay premiums most of your life, but better not get sick.  Insurers are good at collecting premium's but do not understand the concept of paying claims.

End for now.


< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 6/3/2009 9:38:37 AM >

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/3/2009 9:47:20 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		~~Fast Reply~~

I have changed my mind many many many times, about people and about situations when learning the truth behind the specific situations however my core beliefs rarely change.

I believe Gun Control means knowing who has them and holding them responsible for what happens to them, If your gun is stolen and you do not report it then you should be help partially responsible for the crime it was used to commit. I know this is not a popular belief but I hold it none the less.

I beieve Marriage is something two people decide, male or female and God is brought into the marriage by thier decision, The Legality of marriage is different than the religious view of marriage and as such should be seperate. I do not care who marries who but I do believe that it is important to dictate EXACTLY who can marry because if we leave it open to vague concepts then I can see people trying to marry thier dogs and cousins and cars.

That being said I also believe that states should govern themselves as best they can and so if a state votes that it will not be legal to do so then you simply move to a state where it does. Think back to segregation, you can eventaully change things but for the right here right now you got to do what you got to do.

I believe the Justice System works more offten than it doesn't. It is Horrible that someone would die for a crime that they did not commit. I do not think the Legal system is Perfect however I cannot think of another more acceptable method. What I find more unacceptable is that Prisons have so manyt leaks it isn't funny. While I did my extrememly short time in Prison I was able to get Drugs, Liquor, and Porno, I was fed three times a day and the food wasn't that bad, I had a bed, a sink, and toilet and during my stay there when I only got one hour of outside time (Someone tried to escape and we all got put on lock down) it was spent in a yard with Grass and Blecher style benches. There were other times when I was in the block where I could read or watch cable tv. A lifetime of THAT is not Punishment. That being said I also cannot think of a better way to do it.

I believe that Homosexulity for some is a concept of nature and for others it is a Choice, I do not believe either are any of my business when it comes to people who are not me. Should I have children whom are homosexual I will have to learn to cope because I do not believe you can FORCE someone to be something that they are not expecially when it comes to personal sexual preference.

I believe that Politics are personal, that fighting about them is futile. I believe that people want to see what they want to see and any deviance from that threatens their self security. That being said I am a Liberal Conservative both Financially and Politically. There are things I do not give a shit about such as Military Advancement and Homosexual Marriage, but the virtues that conservative value was based on is something that I greatly believe in but again it is for me not for other people.

All that being said on individual issues I am always willing to listen.

If you can tell me exactly how Obama is better than Bush I am all ears, If you can tell me how Bush was responsible for all our problems again I am all ears, but if you just wanna point out that he was a little slow, acted immature, and made some bad political statements and say it was "Those kind of things" that led us to where we are, then I have no time for your whimsical nonsence. The Problems we face today goes all the way back to Eisenhower, with each President since doing a little and changing it's direction but it was nearly manifest destiny to bring us to where we are today. It wasn't one persons decision that brought us to where we are today it was a Nation that expected a particular way of life but did not want to have to do what it took to get it. It was a Nation that wants to know all the secrets but does not want to deal with what those secrets mean. Korea Then and Now where did it start and where is it now? Which President do we blame for that?

If you want to tell me where the Bible says that Homosexuality is wrong I will listen as long as you listen when I tell you that it doesn't and you are assuming one translation is the same as the next.

All in all I change my Position on individual matters all the time, however I stand fast behind the ideas that I believe every american should know how to use a Firearm and know how to Protect themselves. The the Constitution should be an entire class in Highschool. The Justice system is flawed so I keep myself Squeaky Clean today as to leave for any possible excuses and Alibies are as good as gold. I stand behind the idea that the individual Man (Human) needs to decide what is right for themselves and do as they please always being aware of the consequences for doing so. It is a Crime to Steal Bread, but I will do so to feed my family, knowing full well what the penalty for doing so is.

Steel

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(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/3/2009 10:38:04 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Double post, I didn't see it.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 6/3/2009 11:16:20 AM >

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/3/2009 10:53:33 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Yep, see I came from a very conservative family. We weren't relgious, but my dad is a retired Colonel in the Army. He was an asshole when I was growing up. My brother and I both got the belt when we fucked up in school. He regularly told us we were shitbags. My mother (God bless her) didn't know what to do, she just stood there. When I was 16, I got tired of it. I hit my old man with a frying pan in the kitchen. He came up, but I was waiting for him with another pan of boiling fat. I told him what I thought, and that was the end of it. I love him to death, but he is a fucker. I blame him a lot for my brother getting put in the joint. He did provide for us, but that's all he thought he had to do. The rest of the time, he was a prick.

Sounds a lot like my childhood...

I've tried to explain it to you and others here and everywhere. I don't care anymore what side of the fence one sits since we are all there at one time or another BUT, I am very disenchanted with the conservative movement. It got its real start with Barry Goldwater's nomination for POUS then revived by William F. Buckley's continued efforts. 

A little background of mine. I was brought up in a republican household in republican Michigan. Moved with my folks to republican Va. and watched as it became the republican/capitalist party. 

That movement ever since and yes, starting with Reagan...has been hijacked by both the neocons and the general jumping in bed with the profiteers, of most of the rest of the republican party. 

I believe in the death penalty but ONLY after confirmed eye witness testimony of the premeditated variety.

Yes, our criminal justice system does need a complete overhaul. In that vain...20 to life sentences for corrupt police, investigators and judges. 

Healthcare is not about your health. A very competitive culture has been newly created where too much was no longer off-limits. Then for most of our economy, it became make what you can now almost anyway you can which along with deregulation...started us culturally down this road we travel now. 

So our health is about profits and same for the 'war on drugs' a war for profit. Plus again, how does all of this supply get in...without corruption in law enforcement ? 

We could have Medicare for everybody, we could legalize drugs yet we will see neither for a very long time. 

Conservative philosophy has it correct in that we need only minimal govt. for two collective responsibilities...defense and justice through law enforcement. Yes, there are others but much smaller and on the edges. Conservatism recognizes the venality of mankind and sets out to use common law legislated into criminal law where necessary to pursue and exact justice from the guilty. 

Yet, those conservatives for 30 years now seemed to have veared into the clutches of their own venality and as it reflects on it ideals in economy with deregulation...turning a blind eye to the venality of the business world. 

If either is corrupt...it is both sides and that's why I have changed my mind. 

Obama is just a new fresh brown face on the same problem if you notice a trend in his policy position changes and spending. He could make things worse and I am sorry to suggest...somewhat intentionally. Control is from behind the scenes and the autonomy of the fed is very troublesome and I think for the future...problematic.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/3/2009 10:57:47 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I have changed my position- on eugenics.

There is a slippery slope.

,,,,,in case you did not notice- IMO the deck is stacked.  and it is.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/3/2009 1:14:59 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

If you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart.  As you get older (and wiser) you become more conservative." 



Which was attributed to Churchill who just happened to swap sides in order to achieve power......twice. Rather convenient then eh.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Louve00)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/3/2009 2:11:23 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Not really, when I think about it.

My ideas on guns and gun control are the same as they have been since I was a teenager; my ideas on the role of our govt are still the same as they have been since I was a teenager; ...hmmm, I guess, If I really think about it, the only thing that has changed for me over the years is my outlook and opinon of law enforcement. As a teenager I detested them; now, I work for them...go figure.

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(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/3/2009 2:44:41 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		We’ve some good posts in this thread. Those that say they are changing…are you really…or do you just perceive the world differently? I think there is a big difference.

When I had a family and a heavy tax burden I remember thinking I should not have to support people on welfare and disabilities. I was very Republican and figured if I had to work for every penny they should too.

Then when I got older…and my body started falling apart… when some in my family, responsible hard workers, fell on hard times… I realized we should help if we can afford to...it is our duty.

Now to me this was a change in perception not mind…If I had experienced the health problems when I was young I would have thought differently. My ethics have not changed at all… but circumstances opened my eyes.

Butch


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(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/3/2009 2:54:51 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We’ve some good posts in this thread. Those that say they are changing…are you really…or do you just perceive the world differently? I think there is a big difference.



Ideas and perceptions are a better measure of change than the mythical inner-self that has never been pinned down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

When I had a family and a heavy tax burden I remember thinking I should not have to support people on welfare and disabilities. I was very Republican and figured if I had to work for every penny they should too.

Then when I got older…and my body started falling apart… when some in my family, responsible hard workers, fell on hard times… I realized we should help if we can afford to...it is our duty.

Now to me this was a change in perception not mind…If I had experienced the health problems when I was young I would have thought differently. My ethics have not changed at all… but circumstances opened my eyes.

Butch



Perhaps it's a case of experience being a good teacher.

P.S. Surely perception/ideas is your mind?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/4/2009 5:26:05 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I have changed my mind on many things, and I was just wondering if I was the only one. I am typically conservative on most matters. I would welcome us to be honest here. I do not wish this to turn into a pissing contest. If you don't agree....cool. Say so and move on. It's not a order; it's just a suggestion. If you want to be a prick, than that' on you. I simply want to see if others have chosen other sides like me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Wouldn't want to be a prick.

As best as I can tell from the above, you want to let everyone know that you've changed a lot, moreover, you don't want this to become a pissing contest.

I would agree that you've changed a lot....and I won't piss on you.

(Sorry....one more thing...you're conservative).


Hmmm? As best as I can tell, you are attempting to be an ass. I have changed a lot, and I don"t think you are offering an appreciative notice. You're just being a dick. Well.....nice try. It won't work. Nice try.


Hmmmmm....I'm thinking maybe next time you ought to define the % of honesty you're looking for.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Have you changed your position on anything? - 6/4/2009 6:01:25 PM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		I've changed my views on affairs, or "cheating".

(in reply to PyrotheClown)
Profile   Post #: 52
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