"I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (Full Version)

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AAkasha -> "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 8:35:15 AM)


I'm less than a year into an open relationship (all parties are aware) and taking it slow, and my real life play outside my primary relationship is kept on a very casual level because I am being very cautious about things.  I also tend to like things SUPER intense but spread apart, with a lot of "keeping in touch" in between, but it's clearly different than a romantic relationship and the boundaries are set.

Because I am "romantically" monogamous with my husband, I have shied away from any types of ritualistic "collarings" or things of the sort, and considered that pretty much off the table.  I'm finding, though, that this is MUCH more important to submissives; If we are going to have a regular, ongoing play relationship, I think they may be over the moon to be "collared" and would feel a much deeper, exciting sense of being owned.   When I think of telling a man I want to "collar him as my slave," I only see the downside - I worry that he will think it means more than it does, no matter how much I explain it, I think it will change the dynamic and make him possessive or needy, I think it will just cause problems in an otherwise "casual and comfortable" scenario. But it seems that some casual slaves still look for "that symbol" of being owned and without it they feel like they are in limbo.

Even when a collar does not symbolize monogamy or exclusivity or love, when it represents a level of owernship or connection of partners, I get uncomfortable thinking it may create a lot of unncessary drama down the road.  I can count on one hand how many times I have even "done" the collar thing because I generally consider it a silly ritual, and instead would just take on traditional roles - ie, having a romantic commitment (or a wedding ring, in the last case) as boyfriend/girlfriend.  Now that monogamy is off the table, I've had to rethink my position on gestures that communicate a level of intimacy.

Do any femdoms just skip the concept of the "collar" all together?  Even if it's clearly important to the sub?  Did you ever "collar" someone too casually and come to regret it later?

Akasha



LadyHibiscus -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 8:41:31 AM)

Collar shy dom here!

I form very deep attachments, and feel a lot of responsibility toward those I am in a D/s relationship with.   Unless I am planning on something that is going to last on many levels, I will say that I am playing, that I am mentoring, that I am having a hell of a good time, but I avoid that "collar" word. 



GreedyTop -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 8:46:19 AM)

coming from the other side of the kneel.. collars to me are simply an accoutrement...   an accessory.  I do not expect one from my husband, unless it's in the form of an accessory that I can decide to wear or not to wear.



breatheasone -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 8:56:18 AM)

If i may?.... from the "s" side of this, i can understand the importance of the symbol. May i suggest a special play collar? That can mean whatever Y'all need it to mean.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 9:35:15 AM)

Candy has a great point there about "play" collars---I have used those as a symbol of power exchange during interactions, so there is that link WHILE we are together. 



ShaharThorne -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 10:50:31 AM)

I am just not into collaring on both sides. I never collared Alexis though she desire one for play and my former Master did not wish to collar me as well, wanting to keep our relationship on the sly from the public.

Now that I am seeking someone, I want it to be as friends first and seeing where the relationship develops from there. It might take time, but time is all I have at the moment. Collaring can come later.



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 11:03:14 AM)

I use the concept of a "house" collar, which works out great in our poly clan. Our servants -are- collared... to House Bladewing. They're not collared to an individual in the household, but they have the security of knowing that they are wanted, and have been accepted as members of the clan.

Dame Calla



SteelofUtah -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 11:15:39 AM)

The Problem with collars is that they mean so many things to so many different people. It is so hard to come to an agreement because even when you think you have explained what it means you cannot account for what the other believes.

I see Collars as being a symbol of my responsibility to the other individual. They do not mean Love, but they can mean love, they do not mean permanent, but they can mean permanent.

I look at the process of collaring someone as me saying "I take Responsibility for our relationship" However collaring isn't always about a collar. In fact I have collared a few women who never actually got a physical collar because the bond was in the mind where it always should be as locks can rust and leather break the bond in the mind can last forever if it is nurtured so.

That being said, Define what your play partners WANT in a collar, if they want more connection to you than you are comfortable with than the relationship has grown larger than you wish and should be terminated. It is sad but there are times when one has to let their slave go because you can no longer give them that which they NEED and for some the Need is Love and Companionship. If you are not willing to do that then you cannot give them what they are hopeing to one day get from you.

Steel



missturbation -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 4:15:06 PM)

In my personal opinion whilst a collar is nice to have it is not the be all and end all. Commitment can be there without one, and anyone who needs one to feel owned or feel committed to, comes across to me as a little insecure.



oceanwinds -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 4:24:13 PM)

Sir and i both agree to not do the collaring thing. Many people need symbols to know they are important to another, but some don't.



Venatrix -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 4:25:56 PM)

FR - As far as I'm concerned, a collar is something I put on someone so that I can tie him up to other odds and ends.  I've never met anyone in a d/s-based relationship that I've wanted to make a commitment to, but if that ever changes, I may well see other aspects to a collar than just a delightfully fun, kinky toy.



sodsta -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 7:35:10 PM)

Isn't "collaring" just a scene-specific way of saying "you wanna go steady"? That's sort of how I'd always seen it. A collar to me is just a piece of kink equipment or a fun toy. It's fun to wear one during play for all sorts of different purposes - they can be attached to things for bondage, or the wearer can be lead around by them... lots of control/power/discipline fun to be had there... but other than that...?

I don't think wearing a collar during play necessarily equates to "being collared". Are you worried about making your casual player partners actually wear collars when you play? Or more about ritually "collaring" them? Because to my mind, one does not automatically equal the other.



DavanKael -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 8:13:57 PM)

While a collar is not the be-all, end-all, I must admit that, as symbols of commitment (like wedding bands), I like 'em. 
At the very least, it's important to understand what each of you expects that collar to mean and sync up your interpretations as much as possible. 
The idea of play collars in your circumstance seems like a good one. 
'Course, if the people are very emotionally involved and want a collar that is representational of a more depthful investment, I think that's stepping way further than where you wish to be.  Thing is, emotions aren't controllable.  Someone might slip further than they mean to emotionally.  Behaviors are, of course, controllable, so what you do from there is key. 
Best wishes,
  Davan



IronBear -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 10:32:20 PM)

I think the OP may well find that some Male Dominants will agree with her arguments about not seeking to collar anyone. Indeed were we not in a poly dynamic, I can say that neither Neets nor I would consider collaring any one. This has been reinforced by a couple of choices of people which turned out to not be the best choice we could have made and which in both occasions cost us a largish amount of unrecoverable money. It is highly unlikely that I personally will collar another girl, not because I have set impossible requirements, but because whilst i live in Australia the opportunities and females who meet those requirements are rare and those who do appear to be taken.., Them's the breaks so we get on with life and if need be tell BDSM to bugger off.. 



littlesarbonn -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/3/2009 11:12:25 PM)

I don't think the problem is the collar. It's the submissives who keep wanting it to mean more than you want it to mean to them. I've learned one thing that is pretty easy to fix these sorts of things, and that is that if the dominant tells me exactly what kind of relationship we'll be having, and points out that no amount of wanting or fantasizing is going to make it anything different, one goes in with eyes wide open. That's what works for me nowadays because way too often one gets tunnel vision, believing the relationship is something different than it is. As I know you're someone not afraid of blunt words, I can't see how this should become a problem for you. Others, maybe, but unless someone is just not getting it, a well spelled out relationship should be just that.



pompeii -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/4/2009 6:12:15 AM)

This post enlightened me. In reading the responses, I finally realized the germ of why I never understood "collaring".

For me, a collar is a tool to control the sub's body and to enjoy the view of her in bondage ... not a symbol of anything whatsoever.

The "unsymbolic" collar, to me, is no more "symbolic" than the sub's fur-lined cuffs or her bright red ball gag.

Sure, anything on her neck with a leash attached looks great on a sub, and arouses me to no end, but I wouldn't consider "cuffing" her or "ballgagging" her to be a symbolic gesture any more than putting a collar on her.

Thanks for the enlightenment!



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/4/2009 6:48:26 AM)

The collar -is- symbolic, for me... but not in the way that some see it, as sort of a 'surrogate wedding band'. For me, it is a physical reminder of station, and also a reminder of where the authority rests between us. I've found, over the years, that our servants who wore their collars regularly were more inclined to strive for quality in service, and to have a sense of dedication to their own growth in submission than the servants for whom we agreed to a purely "philosophically-expressed" dynamic, without the 'trappings' of authority exchange. They also seemed to have a better acceptance of the original terms of our agreement, and were not constantly seeking so much reinforcement of being -wanted- in their station or looking to 'upgrade' their status. The servants for whom I did not offer a collar often became restless and insecure, and since I keep a poly household, it makes sense to me to minimize situations of "I'm wanted and you're not" that can definitely creep up on you among those "below stairs".

Now I -do- do casual "play", but tend only to 'collar' someone with whom I'm going to have a long-term interaction. However, I -do- consider long-term bottoms who are dedicated and who desire to have that connection to be "full-fledged" servants to the House, and most of them have had a House Bladewing collar, even if the collar was only worn when they were with me.

I think that the importance of the collar is, in my experience, substantially less important to the person who -has- the authority in a relationship than it is to the person who is yielding authority. It makes perfect sense to me that someone who is yielding hirself up to me for either a short time or a lifetime would want -some- reminder that xhe's made that decision, and some reinforcement that a real person has actually -accepted- that offering of self. Therefore, I consider the collar to be something I do for the -servant-. I certainly don't need it for myself, but the security and comfort it provides to the yielding member(s) of the dynamic is undenyable, in my experience.

Dame Calla



AAkasha -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/4/2009 9:38:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sodsta

Isn't "collaring" just a scene-specific way of saying "you wanna go steady"? That's sort of how I'd always seen it. A collar to me is just a piece of kink equipment or a fun toy. It's fun to wear one during play for all sorts of different purposes - they can be attached to things for bondage, or the wearer can be lead around by them... lots of control/power/discipline fun to be had there... but other than that...?

I don't think wearing a collar during play necessarily equates to "being collared". Are you worried about making your casual player partners actually wear collars when you play? Or more about ritually "collaring" them? Because to my mind, one does not automatically equal the other.


Yes, exactly. I use collars all the time, regardless of the relationship with the person.  I can't help it, I have a serious "doggy play" fetish, and I am not going to stop using collars and leashes because of the symbolism of the collar.

I am more talking about the "going steady" metaphor, yes.  Submissives yearn to belong and want to feel that sense of "being owned" and it seems to be the holy grail to some of them - even though they know it's a different kind of emotional commitment/relationship since it's not romantic per se, and I am not going to become their girlfriend. This is all very clear.  Still, they want to know it's more than just beat/flog/torture "I'll call you later next week, see ya," - and since we are in touch via email, phone, and are friendly with one another, it's not just totally casual.

But I really am hesitant to get a submissive's emotional attachments all wrapped up in a much bigger deal, the "collaring" the "being owned" and then just setting themselves up to get hurt.  What I find is that submissives, especially ones who have wanted something a long time, will understate their needs or compromise themselves until later because they honestly feel they can change what they want and need and "something is better than nothing."  They will downplay the significance of things or their level of needs initially, and then once they get emotionally way too involved, they confess that it's a much bigger deal and/or are getting hurt.  I want to avoid this at all costs. If this means only having VERY casual relationships no matter how much a submissives longs to "be collared" and as much as I am fond of him, and probably would be ok with it, I just don't want to risk it. 

As others have pointed out, a collar means whatever the two parties say it means.  But what do you do in a situation like this:

Femdom:  What does collaring mean to you? What does it mean to be owned?
Sub: It means x to me.
Femdom: Ah. Well, x is way too serious to me based on what I am looking for; it means y to me.
Sub: Ok that's fine, I agree with that, I can take that too. I meant to say a collar means x or y.  Please collar me.
(one month later)
Sub: I am feeling uncomfortable, I need/want/deserve (list)/I am feeling uncomfortable because collaring means x to me.
Femdom: I told you when I collared you, it means y.
Sub: I know, but I was just saying that because I thought I could change how I feel, but I can't.  Now what do we do?

Of course, that's a very watered down version, but people get what I mean. 

Akasha



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/4/2009 11:05:26 AM)

i am not into the sharing my partner with anyone game  thats kinda of lame  true pe or power exchange happens from the chemstry two share not you and the world   or everyone else  the human mind is so vast it takes some people 43 years to know someone so get a clue  be real quit playing to fantasy island and start being something of substance
yep



kiwisub12 -> RE: "I ain't collaring nobody!" - a commitment phobic femdom? (6/4/2009 3:01:08 PM)

When i started my relationship with Sir, i really wanted a collar, a physical manifestation of our relationship and commitment - and yes, i was  a bit insecure.
Three years and counting, and the collar (physical) is no longer as important to me. What we have isn't defined or expressed by a collar, but only time made me comfortable with that thought.

I am as committed to Sir as any relationship i know. If he took the collar from me, it wouldn't affect our relationship one iota.

But for the beginning of our relationship the collar served an important function - it made me feel secure and loved, until i "got" it viscerally.

Collars are important to  some subs - it makes us feel secure, and desired. Even a play collar can put a sub into a mindspace such that it deepens the play. 

                                                                behold the awesome power of the collar!!!!![sm=yesmistress.gif][sm=yesmaster.gif]



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