RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power?

RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (Full Version)

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breatheasone -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:10:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 I agree submission has to mean something, but I think there are a lot of various dynamics and a lot of gray areas. We can't sit here and say it's ok to negotiate on some things, but not on others. Either negotiation is a legitmate application in a ds relationship or it isn't. While some of us might consider the dinner issue so small that it shouldnt even be an issue, others might see it as something that needs to be negotiated. i wanted to reply to this thread SO bad....and i KNEW i wouldn't be able to without sounding like, well....me LOL (an asshole) i am SO glad marie2 had the grace to say what my heart meant, but my mouth would surly have fucked up.[:)]

SailingBum -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:11:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky Sailing, a Boss and a Dom are different. But, though I hate to admit this (due to the somewhat smugness of the post), NihilusZero's post makes sense. Figures you wouldn't see the point... The power dynamic is the same.. You can't pick and choose what/when/how to submit in my world ...you do as your told. It's a real simple concept to grasp. YOU just dont want to accept it. If you ran your " I dont wanna make dinner" bull shit past me "cuz Im busy watching tv" The first time you said that ...upon extracting my boot of your ass... I have you buld a camp fire to cook my dinner. There woud be no "second chance" My bitch will do as she is told. Yes it's really that simple BadOne

NihilusZero -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:11:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 I might agree with you NZ, but I keep getting stuck on the problem of not a single word in all of BDSM-land having any definition that I know of. In the immortal words of Steely Dan The things that pass for knowledge I can't understand. So while I'd love to say that we should define all these words so that we can all communicate... the fact of the matter is, we haven't, nor do we intend to. I pretty much read every single post here and do a great deal of mental gymnastics to try to map what I'm reading into some framework that I can understand... and in the process I pretty much jettison BDSM terminology as meaningless sounds. Heck, even you and I who very clearly think similarly across a wide spectrum, I'd be very surprised if you and I recognized either dominance or submission in a similar light. Bondage... MAYBE we could get some traction on bondage... maybe. But the rest of the words I've abandoned hope on. What about "submit" as a general term? Non-BDSM related?

subtlebutterfly -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:20:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky What's the best approach for a couple when they fight over power? The sub may be submissive but she may not want to submit all of the time, every day. She may want a Dom to take charge but she may also want to make choices that he may not agree with. Like if she wants to sit and watch tv and order in while he feels like a home cooked meal. What if she doesn't feel like cooking. What to do? She likes submitting but she does not want to be forced to do something she has no interest in at the time. Like if you (a sub) weren't into something (like scat of vomit) I'm sure you would say no when the idea is presented. In cases like that, who does the deciding? I'm sure it could be solved with a pillowfight[:D]

janiebelle -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:21:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky fyi, for those of you who said the person in the post is a switch, I do not agree. At no point does she want to tell her Dom what to do. She'd just rather 'not' do things at times. Everyone is lazy at times. Is it so much for her Dom to accept the fact that, after a hard days work she just doesn't feel like cooking? It's not like she didn't present an alternative: fast food. It's not like she's letting him starve. it's just take out. Is it right to ignore a subs feelings for the sake of your own? Nicky, no matter how many times you ask the question, it will not change the answers you get here. Your duty is not to feed him, it is to obey him. I'm seeing you as a perfectly nice person who is happy to go above and beyond the call of duty, but who just isn't so good with duty in and of itself. This duty is one of the not-so-glamourous aspects of life. Whether it is in an exchange with your Dom or to any other person to whom you are bound by duty, it's a fact of life. What you want and what you get are two entirely different things. Think of the duty your Dom carries. Do you not think that there are times he goes to lengths he may not want to at the moment because of his duty to you? If you don't think that he does, I would suggest you think a little more. j

NihilusZero -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:21:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild It doesn't matter if it's D/s, M/s, or a vanilla hubby and wifey, the relationship changes thus what had been agreed upon form day one will not apply 6 mos or 5 years down the road. Individuals change as time progresses and it is logical to say the conditions of the dynamic changes also. That strikes me as a perfectly lucid and insightful issue to be open to. I guess that's one of the unmentioned underlying points I've been thinking about...that if the submission starts becoming optional in the mind of the sub, then it would be time to revisit the expectations of the relationship as a whole.

NorthernGent -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:23:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly I'm sure it could be solved with a pillowfight[:D] Failing that there's always Russian roulette.......

NihilusZero -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:24:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly I'm sure it could be solved with a pillowfight[:D] This sounds like a fantastic idea. Dom: "Ms. 'Oh-so-exhausted'...I bet you wish you'd have turned that last bit of energy towards an easy cooking process rather than having to use it now to try and dodge this!" whoooossshhhh-POW!

DavanKael -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:29:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 We can't sit here and say it's ok to negotiate on some things, but not on others. Either negotiation is a legitmate application in a ds relationship or it isn't. I want to come back to this also for a semantic reason of its own. I'm all for discussion and feedback-giving. I'm totally for complete disclosure of pertinent information ("Sir, I sprained my ankle earlier today while you were at work and that is why I feel I won't be able to join you for the 2-mile jog you demand that I run with you each day.") This "negotiation" word, though...it seems to present a debate in the form of the sub both expecting and overriding the decision-making ability of the Dom, essentially saying "right now I know what's best, not you" and, moreso than just on the level of disobedience, I find that a painful attack on (from the view of the Dom) her trust in him and how happy her submission actually makes her (both things being, I think, crucial to a good D/s relationship). That's an awesome elucidation of the distinctions between 2 ideas that, at their heart, are disparate. One places the parties in assertive stances but could allow a power-dynamic based dynamic to stand while the other places them in adversarial positions to one another and rocks the foundations. Davan

IrishMist -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:31:19 PM)
quote: Everyone is lazy at times No, sorry, but not everyone is lazy at times. We may feel lazy at times, but if in a relationship that is authority based...that laziness should not rule. To use this as an excuse to be 'bratty and unsubmissive' is cowardly and a cop out, pure and simple. quote: Is it so much for her Dom to accept the fact that, after a hard days work she just doesn't feel like cooking? That goes both ways. Is it too much to ask that after a hard day of working, he should come home to a meal that was cooked, instead of a lazy ass sitting on a couch watching television and bitching because she does not feel like doing anything. quote: Is it right to ignore a subs feelings for the sake of your own? Your original post said nothing about 'feelings'. quote: The sub may be submissive but she may not want to submit all of the time, every day. She may want a Dom to take charge but she may also want to make choices that he may not agree with. Like if she wants to sit and watch tv and order in while he feels like a home cooked meal. What if she doesn't feel like cooking. Please show me in here where it mentions feelings.

IrishMist -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:33:50 PM)
quote: Failing that there's always Russian roulette....... OO Can I play too? [:D]

DavanKael -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:35:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Perhaps we should get married?....I'm game enough.... **Woo hoo, my divorce heairng was just yesterday and already a trans-Atlantic wedding proposal! I am honored! :> Yes absolutely - the key to changing unacceptable behaviour is to understand the root of the issue and do something about it. I suppose I'm just not as conservative about these things as some people. I can tolerate a wobble; long term is an altogether different matter. Perhaps the OP is having a wobble; perhaps it's a long term problem. Agreed, a wobble is one thing. A pervasive mode of interaction, another entirely. I'm betting this isn't just a wobble. Yes which prompted my original post that it's hard to say where the OP is coming from as there is nothing in the OP which delves into the emotions and feelings that is driving the behaviour. **You're in a more positive mindset than am I on this. :> Not wrong or bad, just more willing to give the benefit of the doubt that it's not chronic bratting more than I. :> Davan

angelikaJ -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:36:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky What's the best approach for a couple when they fight over power? The sub may be submissive but she may not want to submit all of the time, every day. She may want a Dom to take charge but she may also want to make choices that he may not agree with. Like if she wants to sit and watch tv and order in while he feels like a home cooked meal. What if she doesn't feel like cooking. What to do? She likes submitting but she does not want to be forced to do something she has no interest in at the time. Like if you (a sub) weren't into something (like scat of vomit) I'm sure you would say no when the idea is presented. In cases like that, who does the deciding? Is it possible that the sub in question has discovered that the reality of being in a D/s relationship is vastly different than her fantasy? Or perhaps there were some things that were not thought about before making a commitment? Maybe there was a gap in fully discussing expectations. Maybe she would prefer to be a bedroom submissive or have a dungeon partner. Maybe the sub in question is with someone she is just not compatible with. Maybe she needs to re-examine what she really wants. None of these would make her wrong/bad...nor does it mean [he] is a bad Dom. It would just mean she has a new awareness of herself and might need to re-evaluate things. (Hint: sooner is better than later)

newone11 -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:39:34 PM)
Is there something wrong for simply asking for the night off? I've said 'Sir, I'm just not feeling it today. I'm tired of cooking and cleaning and inspection and just all of it. If you wouldn't mind very much, may I please have a holiday today? The only thing I'm in the mood for is mindless TV and pizza delivery.' Does it make me less of a sub? Eh, I'm ok with that and, more importantly, so is he. If the answer had been 'no' I would have gone on like normal. (Well, ok, maybe a little grumbling inside but gone on nonetheless.) One of the things I like best about him is that he recognizes I sometimes need a break to just veg and he doesn't begrudge me asking for it. (And it helps that he loves hot dogs which is what I suggest for dinner when I don't feel like cooking. [:)])

marie2 -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:42:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 We can't sit here and say it's ok to negotiate on some things, but not on others. Either negotiation is a legitmate application in a ds relationship or it isn't. I want to come back to this also for a semantic reason of its own. I'm all for discussion and feedback-giving. I'm totally for complete disclosure of pertinent information ("Sir, I sprained my ankle earlier today while you were at work and that is why I feel I won't be able to join you for the 2-mile jog you demand that I run with you each day.") This "negotiation" word, though...it seems to present a debate in the form of the sub both expecting and overriding the decision-making ability of the Dom, essentially saying "right now I know what's best, not you" and, moreso than just on the level of disobedience, I find that a painful attack on (from the view of the Dom) her trust in him and how happy her submission actually makes her (both things being, I think, crucial to a good D/s relationship). Yes, I see what you're saying here, and agree. I also think that in a "healthy" relationship (whatever that means) the dom in your example would be reasonable about it. Which brings me back to the whole compromise thing and both parties being level-headed enough to sometimes deal with things that might come up unexpectedly. Negotiation maybe wasn't the best word in this case.

subtlebutterfly -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:43:15 PM)
or suggest something that beats your dommely domm doms decision[:D]

DavanKael -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:43:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: newone11 Is there something wrong for simply asking for the night off? I've said 'Sir, I'm just not feeling it today. I'm tired of cooking and cleaning and inspection and just all of it. If you wouldn't mind very much, may I please have a holiday today? The only thing I'm in the mood for is mindless TV and pizza delivery.' Does it make me less of a sub? Eh, I'm ok with that and, more importantly, so is he. If the answer had been 'no' I would have gone on like normal. (Well, ok, maybe a little grumbling inside but gone on nonetheless.) One of the things I like best about him is that he recognizes I sometimes need a break to just veg and he doesn't begrudge me asking for it. (And it helps that he loves hot dogs which is what I suggest for dinner when I don't feel like cooking. [:)]) See, you're talking about assertiveness and respect rather than manipulation and passive aggression. Big difference in the underlying dynamics and intent, imo. Davan

sirsholly -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:48:38 PM)
quote: What part of me Da Boss Man dont you understand??? Da

marie2 -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:52:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone i am SO glad marie2 had the grace to say what my heart meant I ain't gots no grace. You must have me confused with that Holly woman.

rednicky -> RE: Sub and Dom fighting over power? (6/3/2009 3:52:57 PM)
Interesting. Even though your posts drove me crazy sailing, one thing did make sense. I can't quote exactly but you said something like "Don't you think he goes out o his way at time when he doesn't feel like it to provide for her?" How true. I guess the woman in question in the post wasn't looking from the other side of the fence. And now she feels quite silly I'm sure.

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