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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 11:37:33 PM   
ZenDragoness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Hmm see I find it funny that on one hand you are saying that people do not have to agree yet have written a monologue about what you think is right. Seems strange to me, the only response can be, each to their own.



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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 11:41:50 PM   
ZenDragoness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwinds

For me it is philosophy and spirituality.Now i ask why would you think fun would be excluded from a spiritual path?

quote:

Now i ask why would you think fun would be excluded from a spiritual path?


Because he attended some pretty boring protestant services or a greek-orthodox 12 service or came along religious people who did not understand the joy in believing that most religions include.

But maybe he will answer for himself.

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 11:44:31 PM   
ZenDragoness


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quote:

I don't believe in any sort of interventionist god(s).


Davan,

reading that was odd, it is in one Nick Cave song and during reading your words i heard the sound, is it such a usual phrase in english?

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/3/2009 11:51:59 PM   
GYPZYQUEEN


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael
so when I speak of spirituality, I am not talking about religion but rather those things in human experience that elevate us beyond the everyday. 




ME TOO....
 
GQ

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 12:06:13 AM   
stella41b


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Status: offline 		To modify what someone called Peter Brook wrote and put it into terms of WIITWD I see four kinds of BDSM - there's rough or sexy BDSM, 'holy' or spiritual BDSM, dead BDSM and immediate BDSM, and lots of grey spaces in between.

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 4:26:17 AM   
lally2


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Status: offline 		these are relationships, same as all other relationships - its two people attempting to please and satisfy each other.  it should be fun.  even when it isnt 'fun', its fun in a quirky sort of a way.

therein lies the philosophy of all relationships, to please, satisfy and have fun - without philosophy you have random activity without premis.


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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 6:51:47 AM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenDragoness

quote:

I don't believe in any sort of interventionist god(s).


Davan,

reading that was odd, it is in one Nick Cave song and during reading your words i heard the sound, is it such a usual phrase in english?


Hi, Zen Dragoness----
I was just writing rather than quoting when I put that reply together but yes, thinking on it now, there is a similar phrase in a Nick Cave song.  I just googled it and it's from "Into My Arms". 
  Davan

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 6:54:14 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Status: offline 		I think, for me, it is both enjoyable (as I think anything we commit our passion to should be) and a space for philosophical exploration. Then again, everything for me is a philosophical exploration. I think that both pragmatism and philosophy have a space in everything we do in our lives. Life is not as fulfilling if either aspect is neglected or given too much weight... and I say that as a dyed-in-the-wool philosopher.

Dame Calla


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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 6:56:16 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

Original: agirl

It's not a philosophy OR *fun* (erotic games) or any kind of spiritual path, as you put it, for me. All the bdsm stuff we do are experiences....we do loads of things that are just as much fun and give us just as much pleasure.


See, this is difficult for me to grasp... every experience that I have is philosophical, so I don't understand, I guess, how it is possible to separate experience from philosophy.

Can you elaborate?

Dame Calla


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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 7:00:45 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

IOriginal: SailingBum

How in the world can Bondage be a freaking path to anything???


You might ask the same question of the gardening Monks, or the monastics in Upstate NY who explore their philosophy through raking leaves in a maple orchard, or the ones in Georgia (where I attended Monastary) who keep a farm and muck stalls and milk cows and goats by hand for the philosophical growth experience of -doing-, with ones own hands.

Bondage can be a creative, artistic act -- as such, it has the potential to be a path to enlightenment both for the binder and the bindee (not to mention the whole philosophical aspect of being bound or binding another, which has its own deeply-entrenched historical philosophical aspects). If someone didn't want to see those, that's all good for them -- but it still doesn't discount the experience for those who recognize and play on those historical symbolic aspects.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 6/4/2009 7:11:37 AM >

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 7:08:09 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

Original: NihilusZero

Just to clarify, by "philosophy" I mean a method by which to engage in a relationship. As in, it's a description of dynamics and styles. And I'm sure those who know me are already aware that the "spirituality" parts is irrelevant to me.


I concur with this. I'm not a nihilist, as NZ, but I -do- have a somewhat different picture on the 'religion' front, as I do not believe in -any- divine "guiding/watching" force, and the only external influence I make note of is from the energy of existence itself, which is manipulated by every living thing that draws from it or adds to it. For me, personal growth in the here and now, towards the goal of understanding myself and others, is the "philosophy of choice", and it is a form of spirituality, in that it is something that integrates, for me, all of the physical, emotional, intellectual, and communal aspects of how I want to live and become. In that sense, BDSM offers a plethora of experiences from which to develop the person that I am, and to be "in a relationship", which, I've just figured out, for me means being part of someone else's journey -- for an hour, for a day, for a moment or a lifetime. The block of time is irrelevant, but the experience... the experience is the seed to everything.

Dame Calla


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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 7:30:59 AM   
Antheia


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Status: offline 		Wonderful post GYPZYQUEEN. And much the same way I feel inside in regards to the lifestyle and how it affects me. Thank you for putting it into words.
A.

< Message edited by Antheia -- 6/4/2009 7:31:44 AM >

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 8:21:21 AM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael
so when I speak of spirituality, I am not talking about religion but rather those things in human experience that elevate us beyond the everyday. 




ME TOO....
 
GQ


Cool! 
  Davan

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 10:00:37 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

Original: agirl

It's not a philosophy OR *fun* (erotic games) or any kind of spiritual path, as you put it, for me. All the bdsm stuff we do are experiences....we do loads of things that are just as much fun and give us just as much pleasure.


See, this is difficult for me to grasp... every experience that I have is philosophical, so I don't understand, I guess, how it is possible to separate experience from philosophy.

Can you elaborate?

Dame Calla



I don't see that all experience is philosophical...... the value-base behind it might be, depending on what it is.

My relationship is going to be affected by my overall *life philosophy* just like everything else in my life. It's not a *particular bdsm philosophy* in the way I took the OP.

Without getting too bogged down with the word itself...If choosing something because you like it,  it appears to work and it makes you content is philosophical.....then yep. But a lot of the things I *choose* have nothing behind them , other than....*I like it and it suits me to do it at the time*.

agirl





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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 10:32:10 AM   
Apocalypso


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Status: offline 		BDSM can also be a way of reaching the altered sense of consciousness that's an element of many 'alternative' spiritual practises.  And, personally, it's more fun than doing the same through chanting a mantra.

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 10:50:47 AM   
SailingBum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

IOriginal: SailingBum

How in the world can Bondage be a freaking path to anything???


You might ask the same question of the gardening Monks, or the monastics in Upstate NY who explore their philosophy through raking leaves in a maple orchard, or the ones in Georgia (where I attended Monastary) who keep a farm and muck stalls and milk cows and goats by hand for the philosophical growth experience of -doing-, with ones own hands.

Bondage can be a creative, artistic act -- as such, it has the potential to be a path to enlightenment both for the binder and the bindee (not to mention the whole philosophical aspect of being bound or binding another, which has its own deeply-entrenched historical philosophical aspects). If someone didn't want to see those, that's all good for them -- but it still doesn't discount the experience for those who recognize and play on those historical symbolic aspects.

Dame Calla


Oh boy... The monks Ive known their quest for knowledge and spirituality had NOTHING to do with raking leaves.  a couple of the primary reasons they live a simpler life.  Is for the solitude and absence of "external forces".  Trust me they are not trying to find God by raking leaves. 

ETA  It reminds me of Cheech and Chong skit  Where Chong saw God by playing Black Sabbath at 78 speed.  Those damn spirts are out here somewhere under the leaves

BadOne

< Message edited by SailingBum -- 6/4/2009 10:55:54 AM >

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 11:38:14 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Oh boy... The monks Ive known their quest for knowledge and spirituality had NOTHING to do with raking leaves.  a couple of the primary reasons they live a simpler life.  Is for the solitude and absence of "external forces".  Trust me they are not trying to find God by raking leaves. 

ETA  It reminds me of Cheech and Chong skit  Where Chong saw God by playing Black Sabbath at 78 speed.  Those damn spirts are out here somewhere under the leaves

BadOne


Hmm. Different experiences, I guess -- or maybe different goals. I never said anything about trying to find "God". I said that the experience can be a path to personal growth and spiritual development. To me that has nothing to do with "God".

Dame Calla


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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 12:01:09 PM   
SailingBum


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Status: offline 		I was using God as a example ...

BadOne


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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 12:03:49 PM   
DavanKael


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Status: offline 		Didn't you call someone out on not getting the point last evening on a different thread, BadOne?  I think that you're not getting the point of what CallaFirestormBW said in this instance. 
Differing perspectives, I think. 
  Davan

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RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? - 6/4/2009 12:13:53 PM   
bearly2001


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Status: offline 		for some it is just a pleasant glass of fermented grape juice to enjoy and maybe get a buzz from. for others it is an expression of nature's complexity, beauty and limitless possibilities. i suppose one could say it all depends on the palate one brings to it. fun or philosopy.. it is what we choose it to be, no more and no less.

here's a toast to all of you here.. BOTTOMS UP!

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