RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy?

RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (Full Version)

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CallaFirestormBW -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/4/2009 1:00:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bearly2001 for some it is just a pleasant glass of fermented grape juice to enjoy and maybe get a buzz from. for others it is an expression of nature's complexity, beauty and limitless possibilities. i suppose one could say it all depends on the palate one brings to it. fun or philosopy.. it is what we choose it to be, no more and no less. here's a toast to all of you here.. BOTTOMS UP! [sm=offtopic2.gif]Mmmm... give me mine fermented out of a complex blend of Syrah grapes or, maybe, a nice Grenache, or even fermented from some beautiful local honey to make a sweet, rich mead... depending on the weather, and accented with a gorgeous raw-goat-milk cheddar or rich, tangy hand-made gouda, and macadamia-meal crackers!

YourhandMyAss -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/4/2009 1:45:24 PM)
It can be spiritual. Or it could be fun. Because you don't see it that way doesn't mean it isn't. I could find a lot of spiritual beauty from having my ass spanked till it glowed, and then feel closer to god or my daddy or my diety of belief. quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster I have to admit it. When people get serious about BDSM being some kind of philosophy or spiritual path, I am a little baffled, and frankly somewhat put off. I'm not trying to say it isn't real for them, but I just don't see it that way. I don't mean the power exchange in a relationship can't be real; I don't even mean that I think there are relationships that work best where one partner is clearly in charge. I myself have found myself very comfortable in the role of "respected subordinate" -- someone who is listened to, and whose work is appreciated, but who accepts that someone else makes the final decisions. I certainly am not into the notion of Female Supremacy, or Male Supremacy, or Anything-Else-Supremacy. I think if anyone is "naturally" dominant or submissive, it's purely an individual thing. I think there really are some people who are happy as switches, but others who are not. (I was just chatting elsewhere with someone who said that all female Dominants had a sub lurking inside, which I am sure many dominant women here will dispute.) I think it's all a matter of taste. And for me, surrendering my freedom of choice really is an erotic game, even though many moment of it may not be erotic -- I've scrubbed floors under orders, and it's not like that in itself gets me hot, but the fact that I'm being told to do it does, at least to a point. I'm just curious how different people will react. I don't think my answer has to work for you. I just see BDSM as something very different from, say, my political or ethical philosophy. (I might surrender 24/7 to someone in terms of running my personal life, but one of the conditions would be that that person could NOT tell me how to vote....) How does it work for you?

Jeptha -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/4/2009 6:41:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster I have to admit it. When people get serious about BDSM being some kind of philosophy or spiritual path, I am a little baffled, and frankly somewhat put off. ... Well... I sometimes start to nod out when people get preachy about just about anything. But, that said, I don't think it would be that fun if it didn't have some element of spirituality in it - - - I think that would mean that I wasn't really very engaged, or something. As far as philosophy goes; if it concerns the question "what is a life well lived?", then I think the association is relevant (just to toss out one example). I don't think it's strictly any one of these things, fun, philosophy, or spirituality, but all I think are present. Maybe D/s is kind of a tool or framework for accessing some of these other things (be it fun, philosophy or spirituality).

Andalusite -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/4/2009 6:42:47 PM)
I don't consider it to be a spiritual path, but I do like geeking out/philosophising about it in abstract, and discussing it with my partner. [:D] When I'm in the middle of doing it though, isn't the time for semantic debate, usually! Sometimes, it's very fun, sometimes I have mixed feelings, it depends on what we're doing.

IronBear -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/4/2009 10:40:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster I have to admit it. When people get serious about BDSM being some kind of philosophy or spiritual path, I am a little baffled, and frankly somewhat put off. I'm not trying to say it isn't real for them, but I just don't see it that way. I don't mean the power exchange in a relationship can't be real; I don't even mean that I think there are relationships that work best where one partner is clearly in charge. I myself have found myself very comfortable in the role of "respected subordinate" -- someone who is listened to, and whose work is appreciated, but who accepts that someone else makes the final decisions. I certainly am not into the notion of Female Supremacy, or Male Supremacy, or Anything-Else-Supremacy. I think if anyone is "naturally" dominant or submissive, it's purely an individual thing. I think there really are some people who are happy as switches, but others who are not. (I was just chatting elsewhere with someone who said that all female Dominants had a sub lurking inside, which I am sure many dominant women here will dispute.) I think it's all a matter of taste. And for me, surrendering my freedom of choice really is an erotic game, even though many moment of it may not be erotic -- I've scrubbed floors under orders, and it's not like that in itself gets me hot, but the fact that I'm being told to do it does, at least to a point. I'm just curious how different people will react. I don't think my answer has to work for you. I just see BDSM as something very different from, say, my political or ethical philosophy. (I might surrender 24/7 to someone in terms of running my personal life, but one of the conditions would be that that person could NOT tell me how to vote....) How does it work for you? Dealing only with the portion I have bolded and leaving the rest as so much non important padding other than an expression of personal interest or beliefs; I'd have to say that the OP is somewhat shallow in their conception and understanding of the whole BDSM arena. Whilst BDSM is not a spiritual path for me, some specific areas of BDSM when used in specific ways are but one of the many paths to achieve some aspects of spiritual enlightment just as self flagellation has been well documented as use for this (including self purification). Waricking or breath control using a knotted rope to restrict the flow of oxygenated bloot to the brain has a similar use and far better than using drugs to reach a similar state of altered consciousness. Philosophically, I guess there are those who do find within their own practices some philosophy. Not for everyone but for those who do find this then jolly good luck.

Calandra -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/5/2009 1:24:39 AM)
I sought a slave who matched me in all the important ways, emotionally, philosophically, religiously, politically... I don't tell him who to vote for, but I do expect him to vote. I expect him to research the candidates and to be able to tell me WHY he votes the way he does (hell, the 12 yr old in the house even joined us in watching the debates and discussing the issues that are important to us as a middle class family). I expect him to do charitable works (I also volunteer my time in causes that are important to me). I expect him to stop and help people who are broken down on the side of the road (at the very least to call a tow truck). I expect him to be available to our friends and family in times when they need something. I'm not a supremacist either, but I am pagan and I see Myself as a representation of all that is feminine in the Cosmos, as I see him as all that is masculine. In my home I am the Dominant, the decider, the nurturer, the guidance for everything we do. I also see this as a philosophical path because I (and cubby) were raised in VERY dysfunctional homes and we've found that imposing order in our lives through power exchange grounds us and prepares us to lead fuller, more responsible lives. ~shrugs~ It's loads of fun, but for us, it's so much more

Jeptha -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/5/2009 10:59:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN ...YOUR spirituality is your SPIRIT..that which animates your soul..through the depth and quality of human experience.... This line, to me, captures well the idea that spirituality isn't necessarily always a formal thing - like goin' to church on Sunday. It's whatever you do that "animates" you - that feeds your spirit, so to speak.

oceanwinds -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/5/2009 5:58:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeptha quote: ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN ...YOUR spirituality is your SPIRIT..that which animates your soul..through the depth and quality of human experience.... This line, to me, captures well the idea that spirituality isn't necessarily always a formal thing - like goin' to church on Sunday. It's whatever you do that "animates" you - that feeds your spirit, so to speak. I feel the same as stated above. I am a very spiritual person, but I do not follow or belong to any religion. I do not feel either that one needs to be religious to be spiritual. Spiritual to me is the expression of my inner self, which BDSM has linked it self too.

DemonKia -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/6/2009 5:29:10 PM)
happy, content sigh What a lovely topic to bring up. Thank you, pinnipedster . . .. . . & what a wonderful diversity of responses . . .... . & a rather disjointed, & of course lengthy, posting from me . .... . & all of which contrasts in a beautiful way, for me, with the "Belief is . .. . " thread in Politics & Religion . . . . . One of the aspects I think I'm hearing in your OP is what I characterize as the dichotomy between compartmentilization & connectedness . ... . . I tend to see the universe in terms of unity & wholeness, the 'all is one' thing, & I experience life as having a surprisingly high (lol, to me) level of 'connectedness' . . . . . & my experience is that some people are more comfortable with a worldview in which aspects of life & oneself are more discreetly segmented & separate . .... I'm a comparatively 'spiritual' person, in my own weird way, & I see myself as treading my own oddly spiritual path . . ... .. & have experienced the world in a relatively strongly spiritual way going back into the distant depths of my early um-hood . . ... . & I'm otherwise introspective . . . . . & I experience BDSM as having a significant component of self-discovery, at a minimum . . . .. . I had what, in retrospect, can be well described as 'animist feelings' as a young child alongside a strong interest in 'factual data' (history, science, & fiction with a strong grounding in fact; I think of it as a lifelong preference for 'nutrient dense reading' . . . . .), & in adolescence I became a hard atheist materialist. I was raised in an agnostic / atheistic home; in her later years my mother referred to herself quite gleefully as a 'recovering fucktamentalist', lol . .. . . & her mother is a fundie sorta-Baptist-y proselytizing Christian who did her darnedest to convert me in my childhood . . . . . & those Bible stories, as censored & condensed & prettified as they were for children, still converted me away from wanting anything to do with Christianity. No offense, but I've no interest in participating in a god-the-bully, god-the-saboteur-&-hater; it was specifically the story of Joseph & his many colored coat that repelled me, I remember quite clearly . . .. .. So, as I said, in my adolescence I continued adoring fact-based material, especially science & history, & identified increasingly strongly with hard-atheism. My mother was exploring all kinds of Eastern philosophies & belief systems & other new-age-y ways of knowing, & I was finding strong resonance between Buddhism & science. I was looking for some kind of formal moral base, a belief system that could form a ground under my feet, & the more I looked to Buddhism the more it worked for me. At 18 I started to self-identify as buddhist, with the lower case, to me, indicating my non-dogmatic, unorthodox & non-doctrinaire approach. I started out with one basic principle, & got more elaborate (still pretty minimalist) over time: Job 1 is to alleviate suffering, starting with self & working outward from there. & most of what I've added to that is the 3 marks of existence: all is change, all is unsatisfactory, & ego ceases at death . . . . . . . That & ahimsa (avoidance of harm) & a general injunction to educate self . . . . . I've added some taoist interest in the last decade-ish . . . . . . These days I identify as a buddhist-taoist-hard-materialist-atheist-secular-humanist, with streaks of some weird ass animism. If there is deity, it is all of everything, the sum greater than the magnificent parts, existing on a scale that we ephemerals may have no ability to comprehend . . . . . . . At some point in the last few years I found this definition of 'God' -- belief in hope beyond reason. I've liked that quite a bit . .. .. . I don't believe in 'God', but I do believe in 'the universe' & in 'hope beyond reason', both, so I use 'the universe' where other people use the concept of 'God', & now I've thrown 'hope beyond reason' into the synonym pot . .. . . . Similarly I've seen the idea of using G.ood-O.rderly-D.irection as a mind-trick switch for 'God', to diffuse the either/or conflict between atheists/nontheists & believers, & viewing both 'good-orderly-direction' & 'god' as ideals, to assist in communication between diverse viewpoints . . . . . A building-bridges kinda technique . . . . . My 'BDSM nature' emerged for me in what has felt like a very 'organic' process, naturally, effortlessly, the result of the path unfolding under my feet shaped by my following my wants within my own moral / ethical frame, & thus that process has felt remarkably 'taoistic' . ... . . & my kinky self is part & parcel of all my other selves -- me-the-artist, me-the-writer, me-the-mom, me-the-citizen-of-the-world, me-the-environmentalist, me-the-would-be-pornography-tycoon, me-the-intellectual, me-the-smart-ass, me-the-playful, me-the-spiritual-being . . . . . .. Each feeds into the other . . .. . & none gets in the way of having fun . .... Which also feeds back into my experience of myself & the world as having all kinds of interconnection, of identifying strongly with fluidity . . .. . . &, lol, I don't care how the people around me vote, I just care that they do vote . . . . . . lol . . .. I'm kinda annoying that way . .... I keep voter registration forms on hand, & my loved ones know I'll pester them regularly about registering, changing their registrations when they move, reminding them of upcoming elections .. .... . One of the special things my ex & I shared was going on 'voting dates', lol ..... . .

MDSade -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/6/2009 10:54:25 PM)
I had BDSM fantasies before I knew it was called BDSM. I'm just a sexual sadist and dominant. It's just part of who I am.

MistressSunny -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/7/2009 4:22:37 AM)
See.. i think that it is both... and my reason.... simple.... BDSM relatiosnhips are like fingerprints.... they may look almost the same to the untrained eye... but for those in the know...every relationship is vastly differant... some are based on philosophy while others are based on sex.. and others on the spitirul side, and some are a mix off everything. That to me is what makes this lifestyle so inviting, exciting and so down right wonderful

CatdeMedici -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/7/2009 4:48:36 AM)
Philosophies are simply that--concepts---means by which people frame aspects of their lives. Inside those frames there are always levels: practitioners, devoutees, voyeurs, dabblers, fanatics, etc. If someone uses BDSM as a phlisophical approach to some kind of inner freedom versus breaking out the AK47 and blasting the walmart shoppers to kingdom come, I say---go for it. For Me it is a philosophy, not founded in anything erotic or sexual, but defining the real life relationship I seek, in front of and behind closed doors.

porcelaine -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/7/2009 3:41:23 PM)
i seek to relate on four levels, which includes the spirit. i recognize some elect not to relate this way and i accept this. i have employed various elements of spirituality in life and sexuality. i'm comfortable being this way and usually view things from various angles to foster deeper understanding and acceptance. i can't say i view it as either. it is merely an element of my life. a manner of self expression that pairs well with my mannerisms and the sexual things i enjoy. i don't feel that those who's practices are different from mine are lacking in any capacity. it is all individual and i'm more inclined towards curiosity and desiring to learn why they practice as they do as opposed to judging them because of it. i think it all comes down to being happy with yourself and having real contentment. when this occurs you don't seek to point out the differences but learn to appreciate them instead. porcelaine

ZenDragoness -> RE: BDSM: fun, or philosophy? (6/7/2009 7:23:20 PM)
What a beautiful post DemonKia. It resonates with me and my developement is very similar to yours, especially the way to buddism. I have that jewish angle, due to part of my family, but the "moving (meaning still developing)" result you came to and the result i came to are very similar. So S/M is like everything else a spiritual experience for me. Like i wrote in another thread even a short meeting with somebody can be very meaningful and deep, it depends on the persons involved.

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