RE: Angola: Tossing away the keys

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RE: Angola: Tossing away the keys - 6/4/2009 2:49:33 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Punishment, of any kind, has no deterrent effect on crime.

It just makes the rightful feel good about themselves.

So what else would either of you do ? Something that would be effective that would protect the public.

Incarceration is a reasonable practice for the protection of the public. However it is IMO incumbent that we make a real effort at rehabilitation for people who will eventually reenter society, that includes education, job training, drug treatment and psychological care.

For sociopaths who simply cannot be rehabilitated then permanent incarceration must be an option but even in those cases something more humane than violent warehouses is called for.

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RE: Angola: Tossing away the keys - 6/4/2009 3:41:20 PM

SteelofUtah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Incarceration is a reasonable practice for the protection of the public. However it is IMO incumbent that we make a real effort at rehabilitation for people who will eventually reenter society, that includes education, job training, drug treatment and psychological care.

For sociopaths who simply cannot be rehabilitated then permanent incarceration must be an option but even in those cases something more humane than violent warehouses is called for.

Said by someone who has obviously never been to Prison. Prison makes you a better criminal. PERIOD. If you want to Rehibilitate you need to remove all the power and all the pleasure. Jail should be HARD, it should be BAD, and it should NOT come with CABLE TV!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am all for the Rehibilitation and if you can make it stick and show an ACTUAL trend that it is working I am all for it. Problem is there are too many people fighting for them to get the AC in the cell and the Cable TV and all the Comforts of Home in thier cell. Hell The short Period of time I was there, gotta admit it sure beat working my ass off and not knowing if I had earned enough to pay the rent or not. I was guaranteed a bed there, sure I shared a room with a stranger who stabed two cops in an altercation, I was big and scary looking enough that I was left alone by everyone but the Skin Heads who made life hell for just about everyone.

Life in Prison is like Life Support when the brain is dead statistically the odds are stacked against and no one is helped when it doesn't work.

Steel

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RE: Angola: Tossing away the keys - 6/4/2009 3:59:07 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Incarceration is a reasonable practice for the protection of the public. However it is IMO incumbent that we make a real effort at rehabilitation for people who will eventually reenter society, that includes education, job training, drug treatment and psychological care.

For sociopaths who simply cannot be rehabilitated then permanent incarceration must be an option but even in those cases something more humane than violent warehouses is called for.

I broadly agree with this, but rehabilitation isnt always effective for several reasons. Criminals who have had a taste of easy money, often refuse to accept even average paid jobs. Thats assuming you can find people willing to employ a thief, drug user or violent offender. Another point is most of them return to old haunts and old aquaintences, so the cycle continues.

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RE: Angola: Tossing away the keys - 6/4/2009 4:36:43 PM

popeye1250

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Funny, if people could pick a few of them out at random and look at their records they wouldn't feel sorry for them.
And as far as them being mostly "black" there there must be a reason for that.
Evidently noone told them that it's easier and a lot more profitable to rob a bank with a pen than it is with a gun.

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RE: Angola: Tossing away the keys - 6/4/2009 7:32:37 PM

DemonKia

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FR, after skim thru

First my opinion, then a special treat for Stella . . . . .

I note that the death penalty's hypothetical deterrent power is moot over the suicidal. I have a personal thesis that homicidal urges are actually suicidal urges that are being deflected by the psyche of the suicidal, in self-defense, outward.

Also, as a sadist, I'm quite satisfied to let mass & serial murderers & so on sit in very boring prison cells for decades -- seems very equitable to me. But, my sense of ethics demands that those be safe boring prison cells, otherwise we're just being as poorly behaved as the bad guys . . . . . .

Wow, was that succinct spouting of opinion or what, lol . . . . . . For me, that is . . . .

Anyways, Stella, when I saw what this thread was about, the first thing I thought of was the following poem. I was involved in the 'slam poetry' scene from 1998 to 2001, & this poet was one of the many who came thru town selling chapbooks & bringing spoken word to eager young audiences. This is one of my favorites of his, I quite enjoy getting up in front of a crowd & sharing it, it's quite a beautiful piece to read aloud . . . . ..

Angola
Louisiana State Penitentiary circa 1969-70
By Mack Dennis

Angola, Angola
Lord they working me hard
Angola, Angola
Two more summers and I'll be gone

Sent to a part of Louisiana I knew nothing about
Shackled to brothers I knew nothing of
Trucked to fields where grass abounds
A khaki clad cracker unlocks iron from my ankles
And he is insulting me:

"You got to understand Angola penitentiary
Don't try to make nothing easy for you!"

He shouts to my shoe
As I look at his holstered pistol
The judge said hard labor
And this red neck cracker is the enforcer
And he is insulting us:

"Grab a hoe!
And stand two to a row.
If you want to run, nigger -- run!
But long as you're under my gun.
You go' keep up with row number one!"

Standing behind one
Is a greasy black inmate guard with a shotgun
He is wearing a lighter shade khaki than his boss
Spits out tobacco juice just like his boss
Will kill you quicker than his boss
And he is insulting me:

"Cut my grass, leave my beans!
Hoe that row.
You so and so.
Show me what you got -- one!"

And one is hoeing so fast
But I have no problem catching one
Cause I come from piece work on plantation
And I know how to cut the grass
Leave the greens
And chop the dirt that's in between.

But my row buddy handles his hoe
Like a bitch
He is a frail city boy with a rabbit tooth
And I am helping him cause he is my brother.

Then an old con on nine
The row next to mine
Says:

"You can have that boy,
now that you carried him."

I said no thank you sir
Cause I can't see myself
Shackled to a bad relationship
And I keep on helping him shave the grass.

But when we got back to lock down
And he found a love letter on his bunk
I couldn't save his ass.

A police whistle blew
And the lights went out
Reality went out
The rabbit tooth was knocked out.

I knew what the snakes would be after next
Cause they tried me when I was a fish
But I came from gangs pulling trains
And I knew how to stick and move
Duck my head
And catch it on the hips instead.

And when they said shit on my dick
Or blood on my shank
I said kill me mother fucker
Cause my manhood go' last me
Until I die.

God I am so tired
I got to rest up for the sun
I got to keep up with one.

Angola, Angola
Lord they working me hard
Angola, Angola
Two more summers and I'll be gone

Taken from "Rhyme Rhythm and Reasons", part of the Laguna Poets Series, #101, published by The Inevitable Press -- Copyright 1998 by Mack Dennis

Thanks, Stella, for giving me an opportunity to dig into my poetry collection & share this . .. .. .

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 6/4/2009 7:33:07 PM >

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RE: Angola: Tossing away the keys - 6/5/2009 3:27:34 AM

slaveboyforyou

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The prisons in Arkansas are run like plantations too. If you've never seen prisoners hoeing fields in the middle of July when it is 100 degrees out, you wouldn't think jail was a comfy place to be. It's only been 40 years since the South was on the "trustee" system. If you want to see what it used to be like, watch the movie Brubaker. That movie is about Cummins Prison here in Arkansas during the early 70's. It was brutal. You had convicted murderers doing life terms that were trustees in charge on the other inmates. That system was outlawed, but Arkansas still employs lifers in supervisory positions within the prison walls. It's crazy.

Now I have little sympathy with violent criminals. But we should treat everyone humanely. When we decide to remove someone from society, we make them wards of the state. We have a responsibility to take care of them, and make an attempt at making them good citizens again. Harsh treatment doesn't do anything but stir resentment and anti-social behavior. It's counterproductive.

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RE: Angola: Tossing away the keys - 6/5/2009 4:28:49 AM

Louve00

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My problem about thinking "all murderers and rapists deserve to be killed and money not wasted on their incarceration anymore" is highlighted when the news brought out a story about a man named William Dillon who spent 27 years in prison for the murder of another man. Had he been sentenced to death row and executed, no one ever could have ran DNA on the case and prove his innocence. He spent 27 years of his life imprisoned wrongly. At least he was able to be let go. But as a late teen going in...hes now a grown man who missed most of his life....and FL is still socking it to him, too. http://www.wesh.com/news/19632898/detail.html

(Btw, 27 years in jail did not make him a hardened criminal...or a better criminal.) Every case is different. I'm not saying everyone is guilty and I'm not saying everyone isn't. Yet somehow, we will reach the same conclusion and generalize them all. If you are accused of a murder you didn't do, would you want to sit in jail, hoping they might one day find out the truth...or should you be put to death because you can't bare the way you're being treated. It's a tough decision.

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