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It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 4:22:05 AM   
colouredin


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Status: offline 		There is a quote from Dogma (one of my all time favorite films for quotes)

"It doesn't matter what you have faith in just that you have faith"

To what extent do you think this is true? Can you live a life without faith?

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 4:39:22 AM   
sirsholly


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Status: offline 		in the non-spiritual sense...i think faith is a close relative of hope. Can i live without hope? I suppose i could, but it would be a very negative existence. 

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 6:26:43 AM   
JonnieBoy


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Status: offline 		Depends how you take the use of the word faith, if taken to mean religious faith, I'd say of course you can live without that. I'm sure there are many who may think differently, but thats because terms like faith,belief and religion are all open to some degree of individual interpretation.

Pirate

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 1:14:28 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		I follow a personal belief system balanced by logic and reason.

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 1:25:16 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

"It doesn't matter what you have faith in just that you have faith"



Absolutely. Everyone needs a purpose in life - it could be family religion work football or whatever - but you certainly need  faith in something. People need a focus as seen in the way we've organised ourselves over the centuries.

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 7:47:55 PM   
MarsBonfire


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Status: offline 		Please be sure to send a nice card to the families of those who died from the Branch Dividian massacre, and the Heavens Gate cult, with that quote on it. I'm sure they will find it uplifting to think that it really doesn't matter what you believe.... just so believe in something without question...

Cripes... don't you realize that religion is just an agreement with a higher authority to stop using your brain? (Which is God's, or nature's, greatest gift to mankind.)

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 9:02:20 PM   
xiam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire
...Cripes... don't you realize that religion is just an agreement with a higher authority to stop using your brain? (Which is God's, or nature's, greatest gift to mankind.)

"Or do you think that most of them do hear or understand? They are nothing but as cattle; nay, they are straying farther off from the path."  (Al-Furqan 44)

"For the worst of beasts in the sight of God are the deaf and the dumb,- those who understand not." (Al-Anfal 22)

Mohammad said that "the worst path to God is through faith" as using one's intellect, reasoning and heart are paramount in understanding.  Following something blindly and without question doesn't sit well with me, nor does the common statement when faced with contradiction "Well, in these matters, we must have faith."  We're only human and certainly there are things that are hard, if not impossible, to comprehend and explain.  But, if something's not adding up, faith is a poor problem solver, and it's time to reexamine the path.

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 9:46:04 PM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		I've faith I'll have another beer soon.

Faith isn't something that can be reasonably discussed....there are no measures, no common postulates, no foundations other than a "belief."

Sometimes we can evaluate beliefs and show them to be true or not, as Galileo did with the "earth isn't the center of the universe" thing.   But then, he DID get in a whole lot of trouble going against the "faith" that ruled in his part of the world at the time.

You can't argue with "faith" effectively.    It is something you take, well, "on faith."

ed to add:  Remember, that someone's Kharma can run over your Dogma ;)



< Message edited by Crush -- 6/6/2009 9:47:01 PM >

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 9:46:34 PM   
LotusSong


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Believe in something. Preferably yourself.











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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 10:10:55 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xiam

Mohammad said that "the worst path to God is through faith" as using one's intellect, reasoning and heart are paramount in understanding. Following something blindly and without question doesn't sit well with me, nor does the common statement when faced with contradiction "Well, in these matters, we must have faith."

All very nice, but that is still a statement of faith. Many people believe that reason trumps faith, many that faith trumps reason. Maybe it's not always one or the other. Who knows? The only thing certain is that a rigid faith in either proposition is just as dogmatic as its opposite.

K.




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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/6/2009 10:23:37 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

There is a quote from Dogma (one of my all time favorite films for quotes)

"It doesn't matter what you have faith in just that you have faith"

To what extent do you think this is true? Can you live a life without faith?


Technically, yes. But in my opinion, it would not really be a life. It would only be an existence. In my belief system, a person can not truly blossom into their fullest potential as a human being unless they believe in something greater than themselves, which in this context is the definition of faith that feels the most genuine to me.


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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/7/2009 3:07:36 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Cripes... don't you realize that religion is just an agreement with a higher authority to stop using your brain? (Which is God's, or nature's, greatest gift to mankind.)



Well I certainly do not believe in a god of any description.

There is no 'agreement with a higher authority' as religion is a human construct; nor is religion a path to 'stop using your brain'.

There is a very good reason why Christianity swept through Europe - the promise of salvation and peace of mind (which is not akin to 'stopping using your brain'). Add to this the shared purpose that human beings need and you can see why religion/Christianity has been such a potent idea for thousands of years.

And religion isn't the only area where humans place 'faith'. We don't sit down every day and reason out every decision with some scientific process. We use our emotions intuition and feelings to support decision making - e.g. some people will place faith in family members when the odds are that they'll have it thrown back in their face.

In my mind religion certainly is an illusion; I'd add however that it's an illusion to think that religion is the only illusion - religious or not no one is running 'round employing their reason all day long.

Edited to add:

Colouredin I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'faith' - are you focusing on religion or are you thinking more of a focus/purpose in life or are you thinking of being guided by intutition as well as logic?

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 6/7/2009 3:11:45 AM >

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/7/2009 3:13:22 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

...i think faith is a close relative of hope.


Faith Hope and Charity, such delightful sisters. There was this one time, at band camp.

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/7/2009 8:23:39 AM   
DomImus


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Status: offline 		“If there were no God, it would have been necessary to invent him.”
Voltaire


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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/7/2009 8:42:14 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

There is a quote from Dogma (one of my all time favorite films for quotes)

"It doesn't matter what you have faith in just that you have faith"

To what extent do you think this is true? Can you live a life without faith?


What I'm curious about is if you are taking this line literally.

Dogma was a satire aimed at Catholic dogma and religious dogma in general.

In that context the quote is more a ridicule of faith than an affirmation of it.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 6/7/2009 8:43:12 AM >

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/7/2009 10:31:09 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

There is a quote from Dogma (one of my all time favorite films for quotes)

"It doesn't matter what you have faith in just that you have faith"

To what extent do you think this is true? Can you live a life without faith?


I think maybe the idea behind that phrase is one of the BIGGEST problems of humanity, the need to believe in something, for better or worse without using our own brain and instincts, and trusting ourselves.

As an example, I am not anti religioun, but I am very anti organized religioun. It seems to be almost criminal to think for ourselves and question people that call themselves leaders and experts.

I believe it is laziness to follow blindly. I agree with Lotus, the best faith is faith in yourself. Faith to make good choices as to who and what to follow.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 6/7/2009 10:32:07 AM >

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/7/2009 10:39:54 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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Status: offline 		Do you have faith in love? kindness? charity? community? family?

Most everyone has faith in something, and those beliefs of love, kindness, oe whatever is the manifestation of their higher power, or moral foundation. Everyone has it. Some look externally for it, some look internally for it, some look both outward and inward for it. Then there are those that just do not believe in much except for self gratification, or degeneration of the faith of others.

Have faith, we are human good and bad. We are meant to be this way. Those that loose faith of whatever kind are meant to wallow and drown. Those that grasp faith of some kind, in the worst of times are meant to pull ourselves up.

A wise Chinese teacher of mine once said "Everything is as it should be." In that I have faith ;)

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/7/2009 11:09:05 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Do you have faith in love? kindness? charity? community? family?

Most everyone has faith in something, and those beliefs of love, kindness, oe whatever is the manifestation of their higher power, or moral foundation. Everyone has it. Some look externally for it, some look internally for it, some look both outward and inward for it.


Faith in itself is not the same thing as faith in a higher power, which I believe was the question here, unless I misunderstood the OP.

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/7/2009 11:22:25 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

There is a quote from Dogma (one of my all time favorite films for quotes)

"It doesn't matter what you have faith in just that you have faith"

To what extent do you think this is true? Can you live a life without faith?


i have faith in myself... but i know my own limitations.
i have faith in the love my parents have for me... and i know the limitations of that love.
i have faith in a higher power/being/order... i also know the limitations of allowing someone else to guide me on that path.

faith is a wonderful thing to have, as long as you dont lose focus and keep in mind that everything has limitations.

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RE: It doesnt matter - 6/7/2009 5:18:26 PM   
Lorr47


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quote:

Cripes... don't you realize that religion is just an agreement with a higher authority to stop using your brain? (Which is God's, or nature's, greatest gift to mankind.)


Yes.  I just bought a book comparing religions.  A born again Christian had really gotten to me.   However, he was right. According to the book Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin could still go to paradise under the tenants of some Christian religions if they had "faith."  At least the Catholic Church said they would burn in hell forever. 

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