hypoxyphilia/autoerotic asphyxia: Zen Master, closet slave (Full Version)

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TexasMaam -> hypoxyphilia/autoerotic asphyxia: Zen Master, closet slave (6/7/2009 12:57:00 PM)

Recent news blurbs concerning the death of actor David Carradine have once again brought to the forefront the ancient practice of self bondage and auto erotic asphyxia.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=7764618&page=1

Carradine's most recent ex wife Marina Anderson accused him of 'deviant sexual behavior which was potentially deadly' in court documents that were made public during the couple's divorce proceedings.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0605092carradine1.html

Zen Master that he was, Carradine's BDSM persona manifested itself as an extension of his public persona, Master of his fate, while his addiction to the euphoria of WIITWD from a submissive perspective seems to indicate he might have been happier as a sexual sub/slave.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/2009/06/07/2009-06-07_kung_fu_kill_bill_david_carradines_family_ask_fbi_to_investigate_whether_death_w.html

While I respectfully mourn the loss of such a beloved public figure, I cannot help but wonder whether our dearly departed CM member was more Master or slave?  He always presented himself as Master, whether in disguise at BDSM events or whether within his circle of mentors and friends. 

In my realm of experience,  self bondage and self flaggellation have always been interpreted as indicators of a supressed submissive/slave identity.  As often happens with those who present themselves as Master identities yet who crave submissive release, their submissive behaviors manifest themselves in private and can result in serious if not fatal consequences.

For those among you who are mental health professionals following David Carradine's story, I'd like to hear your take on it from a BDSM perspective.

For those among you who are not professionals in the mental health field, here's another article to peruse that generalizes sadomasochistic activities as a 'mental health cry for help'.....

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/273759

I think the discourse and range of opinions generated by the media in such a sensationalized forum always makes for interesting commentary, whether educated, enlightened or otherwise.

Any thoughts you'd care to share?

TM



Lashra -> RE: hypoxyphilia/autoerotic asphyxia: Zen Master, closet slave (6/7/2009 1:18:06 PM)

quote:

n my realm of experience, self bondage and self flaggellation have always been interpreted as indicators of a supressed submissive/slave identity. As often happens with those who present themselves as Master identities yet who crave submissive release, their submissive behaviors manifest themselves in private and can result in serious if not fatal consequences.


This describes my male sub as he was prior to our relationship. He was a "Master" on the outside for all to see, but on the inside he was submissive and he hated the Master mask that he donned everyday. He became an angry, uncaring and resentful person to which he directed all those negative emotions at his slave/wife. In the end she left him and they divorced.

I am convinced if we had not met he would probably be in jail or worse, dead by now. He told me on the inside he felt like he was dying because he was unable to ever allow anyone to see the submissive side of him that lay inside. Now he is a calm, happy person who rarely has an outburst of anger. He has learned to communicate and how to do new things that he always wanted to learn but could not because he was fearful someone might view them as "submissive" (cooking, performing service like manicures/pedicures, growing flowers, crossdressing etc.) I love all these things about him and accept them happily.

I really do believe a person can only hide behind a mask for so long before the real them either does "die" or it fights its way to the surface. Once it gets to the surface it can take a negative spin or a positive depending upon the person and their support system.

~Lashra



Tantriqu -> RE: hypoxyphilia/autoerotic asphyxia: Zen Master, closet slave (6/7/2009 1:27:19 PM)


That they [Carradine and Michael Hutchence of INXS] indulge in such deadly behaviour alone and in hotel rooms smacks of either denial or entitlement ['I can't do this with my regular partner since I don't want them (or the world) to know,' or 'other people have to worry about safety, I'm invulnerable'].

Conjecture, I know, and of morbid interest, but open discussion may prevent future deaths.

Another possibility is a cause or effect of drugs and alcohol, since they preferred an elaborate orgasm than dinner with friends: as addicts to multiple agents they may have also been addicted to the intense sensation and couldn't stop this either; or decades of drug and alcohol abuse [or even hypoxia from previous close shaves] caused brain damage.

Even the mildest of breath play [hyperventilation with one's head over the end of the bed, for example] which may heighten orgasm isn't medically safe for everyone. I would never try anything 'stronger, ' and never even try that with a sub until they've had a complete physical, we've 'warmed up' to it and it's always discussed, including the possible serious consequences. I'd hate to think that I misjudged pleasurable thrashing and moaning for a stroke!






AlexandraLynch -> RE: hypoxyphilia/autoerotic asphyxia: Zen Master, closet slave (6/7/2009 2:10:56 PM)

I have a personal hard limit of breath play.
If I hit too hard with an impact implement, there's a bruise or a cut, it heals.
If I mindfuck a little too far, we can get back things with love and patient tenderness.
If I fuck up breathplay, you have brain damage or death.

No, thank you, I prefer to have a slightly larger margin of safety.




LadyPact -> RE: hypoxyphilia/autoerotic asphyxia: Zen Master, closet slave (6/7/2009 3:14:34 PM)

Thank you for posting the links, TM.  While I wouldn't necessarily automatically assume he was a closet submissive, it does appear that he was a form of bottom.  Between the various reports, especially those from his ex-wife, it would seem that he did enjoy the sensations associated with (at least) breath play and bondage.  In My view, that doesn't necessarily equate a submissive or a submissive personality.  It's possible that he could have been both, but the only person who could really answer that question can no longer tell us.

I have to admit that I'm rather torn on the subject of self masochism and/or bondage.  The very same activities that I enjoy doing to someone else as a top, I'm leery of folks doing to themselves.  Not that I believe I am more competent than that person might be.  In fact, many people who are into self bondage in particular tie better than I do.  It's more about the theory that, should something go wrong, unless something has happened to Me, I'll still be able to call the ambulance.



aidan -> RE: hypoxyphilia/autoerotic asphyxia: Zen Master, closet slave (6/7/2009 4:07:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Thank you for posting the links, TM.  While I wouldn't necessarily automatically assume he was a closet submissive, it does appear that he was a form of bottom.  Between the various reports, especially those from his ex-wife, it would seem that he did enjoy the sensations associated with (at least) breath play and bondage.  In My view, that doesn't necessarily equate a submissive or a submissive personality.


Took the words from my mouth. I think he was just kinky, not necessarily into D/s.

Still sad, still sad.



Tantriqu -> RE: hypoxyphilia/autoerotic asphyxia: Zen Master, closet slave (6/8/2009 4:01:04 PM)

Further to: Carradine's denial or entitlement:

From that great scientific journal, Perez Hilton:

'David Carradine's third wife, Gail Jensen, is speaking out publicly about her ex-husband's bondage fetish.

'"David was pretty strange," she says. "He would like to get tied up. He would tie himself up and I would walk in and see him and say 'Oh my God, David, you got to be kidding me — and I would (turn around and) walk out. I would leave him to his own devices. He liked to be tied up. And he could tie himself up … He spent days planning a different feature. He would go to a hardware store and buy the stuff," said Jensen.

'Yikes!

'She added that although he liked to tie himself up, "it was never sexual" and he never choked himself.

'How is this NOT sexual?!

'Jensen filed for divorce in 1997 so maybe the "situation" escalated.

'Also, legal documents have surfaced from Carradine's fourth wife which details his "potentially deadly" sexual habits.'



frankieboy52 -> RE: hypoxyphilia/autoerotic asphyxia: Zen Master, closet slave (6/10/2009 10:11:04 AM)

i shall miss "grasshopper".



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