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Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/8/2009 6:47:05 AM

LadyEllen

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This could go in "news" or "casual", but it has equal claim to "politics and religion" I guess.

Nikki Sinclaire was elected a member of the European Parliament last night for the UK Independence Party (UKIP). She proclaims herself a lesbian - no problem with that, but from what I've found on the web so far refuses to admit being transsexual.

Now it may be she isnt transsexual of course, but at 6'4'' and knowing some stuff about the differences between male and female physiology (especially the facial physiology), I'd say she was - and thats no problem either. Neither is it a problem for her to lay claim to a private life and have her personal circumstances respected as private.

At the same time though, if she is transsexual then it would be good if she'd proclaim it - even if we disagree with her views on Europe, it would be good for "us" to have someone in a position of influence, however small, as well as helping in the general push for acceptance and the general inspiration to those like me who might not be as successful in life as me (or Nikki).

Also to consider though is that UKIP - whilst its consitution and official position is neither pro nor anti LGBT in general or specific - is populated in its membership with many who are staunchly anti-LGBT, whether on "religious" grounds or simply because theyre white supremacists who being upper class dont fit into the BNP scheme. Nikki is in enough hot water with these types without coming out as transsexual too - even with a 5 year mandate.

And lastly - is it that big a deal that she is/might be transsexual? Is it not more a measure of general public acceptance of this condition if she chooses to keep it private and concentrates on the politics for which she was elected - as if it were simply an irrelevant factor?

Thoughts? Comments?

E

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/8/2009 8:39:43 AM

Politesub53

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I dont see what problem there is with anyones sexuality, or race for that matter, provided they treat the whole electorate in an equal manner.

Your comment on what constitutes UKIP members was a gross generalisation. Neither you, nor I, have a clue as to how these voters think. You can bet that the percentage of anti gays is the same in most parties.

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/8/2009 8:47:43 AM

LadyEllen

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According to what I've heard PS53, whilst the whole membership is not anti by any means, and certainly none are openly, the picture in closed meetings is very different. This has come from several sources regarding different occasions and places, so I stand by my comment.

E

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/8/2009 10:39:10 AM

Arpig

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quote:

And lastly - is it that big a deal that she is/might be transsexual? Is it not more a measure of general public acceptance of this condition if she chooses to keep it private and concentrates on the politics for which she was elected - as if it were simply an irrelevant factor?

No it isn't a big deal or a small deal. It is in fact none of your business, nor is it really anybody else's business except hers. If she happens to be a transexual (for which you have no proof other than the belief that she is based on what she looks like), then why should she go public with this fact. Why is she required to do anything to "advance the cause"? Why would her being openly a transexual change her effectiveness in dealing with transexual issues that may arise?

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/8/2009 10:45:27 AM

MissDominae

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Frankly, I don't even care that she is lesbian, let alone may or may not be transsexed. When I vote for someone it is usually because of their policies, not their sexuality or medical past. If she campaigned on being lesbian or TS as a major plank of her policy statement then it becomes fair as she is (presumably) doing so to attract the so-called "pink vote". If she didn't, then it is no one's business.

If she is in stealth it might even be helpful; she can give support behind the scenes to legislation without her vote being seen as biased or compromised.

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/8/2009 3:04:31 PM

LadyEllen

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Yep, personally if I ran for Parliament (UK or EU) then it would be purely coincidental as far as I were concerned; it would be wider policy issues for which I'd be standing, not to advance "the cause" (whatever it might be) because that I'm afraid is not only of minor relevance in the wider picture of things but also, living stealth, it isnt something I'd want to be known for (which makes me a bad person in some circles).

And oh Arpig - I neglected to mention her winning speech didnt I? Sorry - the voice, fairly well trained, is still a giveaway. But who cares (aside from UKIP a few years back, but then she sued successfully)? The electorate didnt - and that is the greatest victory of all.

E

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/8/2009 3:31:08 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

According to what I've heard PS53, whilst the whole membership is not anti by any means, and certainly none are openly, the picture in closed meetings is very different. This has come from several sources regarding different occasions and places, so I stand by my comment.

E

Like I said, it`s no different in any other party.

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/8/2009 7:27:37 PM

numuncular

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I dont see what problem there is with anyones sexuality, or race for that matter, provided they treat the whole electorate in an equal manner.

Your comment on what constitutes UKIP members was a gross generalisation. Neither you, nor I, have a clue as to how these voters think. You can bet that the percentage of anti gays is the same in most parties.

surely the percentage of anti-gays in a right-wing quasi-racist reactionary party like UKIP is inevitably going to be higher than it would be for say, the green party?

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/8/2009 7:54:39 PM

Arpig

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LadyE, I haven't heard her voice, but I did look up a picture, and I think I agree with you.

Ediyed to add: I just watched a video of her on Youtube, and yet again I agree, the voice is a giveaway as well.

< Message edited by Arpig -- 6/8/2009 7:58:00 PM >

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/9/2009 6:52:35 AM

DomImus

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You pretty clearly do have one of 'you' in her position of influence. It's hard to suggest that she isn't transsexual so I'm sure everyone who sees her realizes it without her making it official. Perhaps she is trying to put forth a different message that you don't have to be the "transsexual" member of parliament. I think she has the right idea if that is even a conscious thought on her part. Real acceptance will come when you can just do your thing without being a token. Good for her.

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/9/2009 10:24:13 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: numuncular

surely the percentage of anti-gays in a right-wing quasi-racist reactionary party like UKIP is inevitably going to be higher than it would be for say, the green party?

Thats some sweeping statement you have made. Quasi-racist reactionary party ? Hardly, UKIP isnt the BNP.

My point still stands though, all parties have both racists and homophobes amongst their ranks. Green Party included, some racists are homophobic, and some homosexuals are racist.

Thats a fact, like it or not.

Edited to fix quotes

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 6/9/2009 10:25:09 AM >

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/9/2009 8:27:32 PM

numuncular

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: numuncular

surely the percentage of anti-gays in a right-wing quasi-racist reactionary party like UKIP is inevitably going to be higher than it would be for say, the green party?

Thats some sweeping statement you have made. Quasi-racist reactionary party ? Hardly, UKIP isnt the BNP.

My point still stands though, all parties have both racists and homophobes amongst their ranks. Green Party included, some racists are homophobic, and some homosexuals are racist.

Thats a fact, like it or not.

Edited to fix quotes

yes ukip isnt bnp, but its absolutely reactionary I dont see how thats arguable, as to the racism, well no its certainly not overtly racist but its always pushed the immigration issue and snapped up kilroy as soon as he was sacked for his reprinted muslim diatribe.

and while its of course hard to prove, I'd be prepared to bet that a party who's membership is mostly disaffected euro-sceptic tories such as UK has a hugely significantly higher number of homophobes than the party I chose to compare it to: the greens who's heartland is brighton! and who's core demographic is middle aged college lecturers/ young studenty types. that surely makes sense?

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RE: Nikki Sinclaire - MEP - 6/9/2009 10:07:11 PM

Venatrix

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The thing that gave it away, to my mind, is the photo of Nikki in her Wikipedia entry. She's holding a glass of wine, and the bone structure of her hand and wrist is very strong. Taking all these things together, I'd agree that making an announcement would be redundant. Still, good on her for achieving what she wanted, regardless of whether you agree with her position.

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