RE: married sub (Full Version)

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angelic -> RE: married sub (2/21/2006 6:18:37 AM)

what is serial monogomy?



MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: married sub (2/21/2006 6:31:59 AM)

quote:

As for monogamy, serial monogamy is just that, "serial." There is no way you can compare serial monogamy to being married and monogamous to one person for 10-15-or 20 years. There is no comparable committment in serial monogamy --- its more just a preference to be with one person for a period of time. Being married to another person for ten years or more is a real achievment. It doesn't just happen by itself. It can also get rather claustrophobic as you change over time.



I can't agree that being married X number of years is somehow an acheivement just because of the years put into said relationship.

Indeed, being married for many years where there is ongoing communication, mutual respect and honor, honesty, etc., is indeed a real achievement, even if the relationship isn't perfect or takes paths that neither anticipated.

Being married for 10 years where he (or she) goes out and cheats, things aren't talked about, etc? Nope. Can't call that an "acheivement".


quote:

Bitatruble made a good point, where has the OP gone? We're all just talking to ourselves, [pause] now I just feel used [tears welling up....] I am such a fool......


A couple days after he posted this topic here, he posted the same topic, same question under Ask A Mistress. I pointed out he'd already posted the question here, and he briefly responded something along the lines wanting to ask the Mistresses as well (as if we hadn't already answered here). The thread quickly disappeared, as expected.



MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: married sub (2/21/2006 6:35:50 AM)

quote:

what is serial monogomy?


Being in monogamous relationships, one after the other, as opposed to being in one loooong term relationship.



Kiaban -> RE: married sub (2/21/2006 6:40:46 AM)

no brainer, wrong. The next question: how could someone you are playing with trust you either?



angelic -> RE: married sub (2/21/2006 6:49:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

quote:

what is serial monogomy?


Being in monogamous relationships, one after the other, as opposed to being in one loooong term relationship.



ahhh ok... thank You Ma'am! [:)]



cloudboy -> RE: married sub (2/21/2006 8:33:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

[1] I can't agree that being married X number of years is somehow an acheivement just because of the years put into said relationship.

[2] Indeed, being married for many years where there is ongoing communication, mutual respect and honor, honesty, etc., is indeed a real achievement, even if the relationship isn't perfect or takes paths that neither anticipated.

[3] Being married for 10 years where he (or she) goes out and cheats, things aren't talked about, etc? Nope. Can't call that an "acheivement".


quote:

Bitatruble made a good point, where has the OP gone? We're all just talking to ourselves, [pause] now I just feel used [tears welling up....] I am such a fool......


A couple days after he posted this topic here, he posted the same topic, same question under Ask A Mistress. I pointed out he'd already posted the question here, and he briefly responded something along the lines wanting to ask the Mistresses as well (as if we hadn't already answered here). The thread quickly disappeared, as expected.


I can accept your distinction between #s 1 & 2. There are so many factors to consider --- but the thing I'm trying to focus on is "being there." For most on this thread, few if any are in a mature, functioning marriage. So, their understanding of such a thing is theoretical, principled, anectdotal, etc.

My point about long term monogamy is this: The idea that your spouse will be, should be, can be everthing to you over the course of your entire lifetime is a damaging expectation / ideal. Not only is this generally untrue, it is also basically unfair.

Katherine Hepburn had four serious impact affairs over her lifetime. They were not just a series of vapid, empty, sexual adventures --- but key intimate relationships outside of her marriage. She was enriched.

I don't like a system that transforms her enrichment into a betrayal or moral wrong. Next, when your spouse is enriched, you become enriched as well. The trick is not being possessive and ego centric about one's own marriage --- and not thinking of yourself as the very end of your spouse's frontiers.

Folks sneaking around and "cheating" as others put it, is more a product cultural values and religiously influenced marital expectations whereby people don't feel they have freedoms or choices to exercise. I harken back to KoM, whose wife said to him upon getting married, "I will share you." Right then and there he was liberated, he escaped the trap. If I recall, he was then monogamous with her for some ten (10) years thereafter. Then, he went poly but stayed married. His case is exceptional.

As for me, I'm categorically against the lifetime ownership component of marriage. To me its somewhat akin to a Government setting taxes so high that businesses and proprietors lie to get around paying the taxes that would otherwise drive them out of business. So, "cheating" is actually the dirty little secret about marriage as well, its what people do to stay married.

There are other release valves as well: alcohol, drugs, golf, porn, prostitutes, complaining, anger, resentment, envy, resignation etc..... funny how out of this menu a productive, engaging, extra-marital relationship is "the greatest evil."

Here's a question for you. Did Merryl Streep's character in THE BRIDGE'S OF MADISON county "cheat" on her husband? Would you have advised her to have told her husband about the liason? Would you have advised her that without "pre poly consent" she was wrong to shack up with Clint Eastwood for four days?




swtnsparkling -> RE: married sub (2/21/2006 1:08:02 PM)

quote:

Here's a question for you. Did Merryl Streep's character in THE BRIDGE'S OF MADISON county "cheat" on her husband?

Yes



Submotive -> RE: married sub (2/21/2006 2:10:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pearlandsub

Question: I'm married and want to serve a fem/dom without my wife's knowledge. Wrong or not?

Hmmm - you want to SERVE a femdom? [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
First learn that serving isn't about you. i suspect if you really wanted to serve, it wouldn't even occur to you to be here.



MissHarlet -> RE: married sub (2/22/2006 3:03:03 PM)

My opinion is that if one NEEDS to cheat one NEEDS to be out of the marriage.

Ones spouse deserves to have the choice of accepting your needs or walking away. No one has the right to make that choice for another.

If you dont have honesty and trust you have nothing .... if you cheat and the spouse finds out .. their reaction will probably be much the same as when/if you told them.

I would not want a submissive that was married if their spouse didnt know of it ...but that is just me .. everyone has the right to their own choices ....I dont have to agree with them ....



Isara -> RE: married sub (2/22/2006 10:11:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet

My opinion is that if one NEEDS to cheat one NEEDS to be out of the marriage.

Ones spouse deserves to have the choice of accepting your needs or walking away. No one has the right to make that choice for another.

If you dont have honesty and trust you have nothing .... if you cheat and the spouse finds out .. their reaction will probably be much the same as when/if you told them.

I would not want a submissive that was married if their spouse didnt know of it ...but that is just me .. everyone has the right to their own choices ....I dont have to agree with them ....



I agree, but with a little variation,
quote:

if you cheat and the spouse finds out .. their reaction will probably be much the same as when/if you told them.
Personally? I'd be -more- hurt if I found out they were cheating then if they were honest. I'd be hurt either way, sure, and I have been, but the lie is what is really the deal breaker for me.

Regards.

Isara.



Marquisd -> RE: married sub (2/22/2006 11:33:44 PM)

lets see.......

Wrong..........no
Very wrong..........no
Very Very wrong...................no

VERY VERY WRONG! = absolutely

If you cheat on your wife to whom you promised "until death do us part" - then who else will you cheat on.


cheers

Marquisd



DraconicAnger -> RE: married sub (2/23/2006 1:48:59 AM)

First off as everyone has said its wrong unless you are in a poly relationship. However that doesn't seem to be the case as you must hide your needs/desires from your spouse. I will not offer any suggestions to you simply because you are a grown adult. However what I will say is this, as a person of integrity you must choose how to handle the situation. For a sub choosing to lie/cheat/steal etc for personal gain/pleasure is out of the norm and ettiquette requires you to just call yourself a kinky vanilla. a sub shoudl have the desire to serve and put themselves last before anything and therefore the answer is in front of you. Serve the woman you decided to marry and satiate the needs that drive you, otherwise getting your rocks off with an unknowing Domme will just put you in a world of hurt and not the good type either.

DraconicAnger



ownedgirlie -> RE: married sub (2/23/2006 2:08:59 AM)

A common sentiment. From experience, however, one can not serve one who does not want to be served. Speaking from experience. Not advocating infidelity. Just saying what you suggest is easy to say but impossible to do. i "fortunately" find myself now serving One who very much wants to be served, and unmarried to the one who thought it was an illness. i put "fortunately" in quotes because i did not feel so fortunate at the time i ended my marriage. Painful, none-the-less.

i wish the poster luck in figuring out his dilemma.



NeedToUseYou -> RE: married sub (2/23/2006 2:12:18 AM)

quote:

CloudBoy:
Katherine Hepburn had four serious impact affairs over her lifetime. They were not just a series of vapid, empty, sexual adventures --- but key intimate relationships outside of her marriage. She was enriched.


I'd call that completely immoral behaviour. Why would you agree to a monogamous marriage if you don't intend to follow through. That's like a Master changing the Hard Limits in a relationship without even discussing with the slave. A hard limit in most marriages is monagomy. So it sounds like your ok with breaking agreements. It's her own selfishness that she can't deal with losing one thing to get another. If she told them and gave her partner a choice to accept it or not, it'd be okay. Or be a frickin adult and get a divorce. The world isn't about any one persons personal gratification. Sorry, that generally subsides around age five.

quote:


I don't like a system that transforms her enrichment into a betrayal or moral wrong. Next, when your spouse is enriched, you become enriched as well. The trick is not being possessive and ego centric about one's own marriage --- and not thinking of yourself as the very end of your spouse's frontiers.


Key word you don't like. Unfortunately, most people do accept that concept. And I'm perplexed by how come you don't consider that it does work for alot of people. Or ends for reasons totally unrelated to Sex. Most marriages problems are caused by finances not sex anyway. I'm glad it works for you but honestly, It's completely not for me as well as the vast majority of people. Sure alot of people get cheated on, break up. I'm sure poly relationships fall apart just as often for other reasons not present in a standard marriage. Probably a thread running now about it.

quote:


Folks sneaking around and "cheating" as others put it, is more a product cultural values and religiously influenced marital expectations whereby people don't feel they have freedoms or choices to exercise. I harken back to KoM, whose wife said to him upon getting married, "I will share you." Right then and there he was liberated, he escaped the trap. If I recall, he was then monogamous with her for some ten (10) years thereafter. Then, he went poly but stayed married. His case is exceptional.


Religion has very little to do with it. It's primarly a way of preventing getting diseases. And so daddy doesn't have to go vistit his other three families, and can't take little billy to baseball practice.

Sure your going to say oh safe sex. Well, that's absolute fantasy, you screw 3 people over a period of years, a accident will happen, or the eventual, "fuck, I don't have a rubber, Screw it" . Anyway, it's about caring what your doing to other people, not about getting your rocks. But as I said if everyone involved knows the situation. No harm, No foul. But not telling is so obviously unfair. Get a divorce if your not happy. Or tell your parnter and work it out.

quote:


As for me, I'm categorically against the lifetime ownership component of marriage. To me its somewhat akin to a Government setting taxes so high that businesses and proprietors lie to get around paying the taxes that would otherwise drive them out of business. So, "cheating" is actually the dirty little secret about marriage as well, its what people do to stay married.


Well, then people shouldn't commit to a monogamous marriage then. Similiar to a Master shouldn't enter a contract with his slave, then decide to change the rules without telling the slave. I'm not seeing your point. I think it is you want everyone not to be monogamous, because you hate it for whatever reason.

quote:


There are other release valves as well: alcohol, drugs, golf, porn, prostitutes, complaining, anger, resentment, envy, resignation etc..... funny how out of this menu a productive, engaging, extra-marital relationship is "the greatest evil."


Yeah, there are evil things in the world(wondering why golf is in there). None of which have anything to do with monogamy.

Anyway, Poly isn't for me or alot of other people, but your the only one I ever see that seems to be on a destroy monogamy campaign. I see no one on the board, bashing poly relationships at every turn.

Thanks



cloudboy -> RE: married sub (2/23/2006 7:28:15 AM)


"In every marriage more than a week old, there are grounds for divorce. The trick is to find, and continue to find, grounds for marriage." ~Robert Anderson, Solitaire & Double Solitaire (I have nothing to add.)

"A wedding anniversary is the celebration of love, trust, partnership, tolerance and tenacity. The order varies for any given year." ~Paul Sweeney

"Love seems the swiftest but it is the slowest of all growths. No man or woman really knows what perfect love is until they have been married a quarter of a century." ~Mark Twain (The point I have been trying to make.)

"Any intelligent woman who reads the marriage contract, and then goes into it, deserves all the consequences." ~Isadora Duncan

"When two people are under the influence of the most violent, most insane, most delusive, and most transient of passions, they are required to swear that they will remain in that excited, abnormal, and exhausting condition continuously until death do them part." ~G.B. Shaw, Getting Married, 1908 (Probably the #1 reason for divorce, IMO.)

"I figure that the degree of difficulty in combining two lives ranks somewhere between rerouting a hurricane and finding a parking place in downtown Manhattan." ~Claire Cloninger, "When the Glass Slipper Doesn't Fit and the Silver Spoon is in Someone Else's Mouth"

"One should never know too precisely whom one has married." ~Friedrich Nietzsche
(This is especially poignant b/c it implies continuing privacy, mystery and acceptence.)

"I have great hopes that we shall love each other all our lives as much as if we had never married at all." ~Lord Byron
(Reminds me of the majority on this thread.)

"Bachelor: the only man who has never told his wife a lie." ~Author Unknown


-------

O well, its endless, really.

http://www.quotegarden.com/marriage.html

I want to personally thank all the unmarried for their most entertaining comments on the subject.



MIstressCyn127 -> RE: married sub (2/23/2006 12:56:59 PM)

to the OP.. I imagine we could find u a femdom to "serve" on a one time deal u will never ever forget/snicker.. maybe we could even team up and have group service =)


.... seriously tho....a fundamental premise of any relationship is communication, or what the hell are you doing? sharing bills? pretending to have a good time?Acting the way you think others want you to be ? pretending ot be something or someone your not? ask yourself why are you where you are right now., get over your illusion of yourself , get real , get honest... I get so many bs reasons why married men cant leave their marraiges to pursue what they profess is what they really want in a relationship. .it really boils down to EGO and MONEY the vast majority of the time. The ego has to go regardless. and money well that comes and goes as well.. At least give your partner the opportunity to hear what you want and let the chips fall, its way better than living in hiding imo.

but hey if ur ready to hand over your money and ur ego, Im sure someoen here could help you out

M. Cyn



Estring -> RE: married sub (2/23/2006 4:09:54 PM)

Have you told your wife about your feelings? It's possible that she may be able to give you what you are trying to find somewhere else. If she can't (or won't), maybe she would be open to letting you see a pro. It might be worth a shot, because trying to hide it from her will just lead to bad things.



BearNFirelight -> RE: married sub (2/25/2006 6:49:13 PM)

Ummmm....YEA! You made a serious lifetime committment to your wife. If you are not happy in your marriage and need to go out of it to find what you need, then I would suggest ending the marriage before wanding off to greener pastures. If you wish to remain married then I would suggest this little thing we all demand in lifestyle relationships called honesty and a bit of communication wouldn't hurt. You never know, she may just be understanding of your desires and allow you to pursue them in a healthy way. If not, well then you are back to dealing with your marital problems before seeking other relationships.

Do some hard thinking.



cloudboy -> RE: married sub (3/29/2006 7:31:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MIstressCyn127

....a fundamental premise of any relationship is communication, or what the hell are you doing? sharing bills? pretending to have a good time?Acting the way you think others want you to be ? pretending ot be something or someone your not? ask yourself why are you where you are right now., get over your illusion of yourself , get real , get honest... I get so many bs reasons why married men cant leave their marraiges to pursue what they profess is what they really want in a relationship. .it really boils down to EGO and MONEY the vast majority of the time. The ego has to go regardless. and money well that comes and goes as well.. At least give your partner the opportunity to hear what you want and let the chips fall, its way better than living in hiding imo.

but hey if ur ready to hand over your money and ur ego, Im sure someoen here could help you out

M. Cyn


Unfortunately, the "fundemantal premise of a relationship" varies from person to person and it also evolves over time.



Sensualips -> RE: married sub (3/29/2006 8:09:37 AM)

quote:

I'd call that completely immoral behaviour....The world isn't about any one persons personal gratification.


Fortunately for Katherine, it is not your role to determine her morality.  That is between her, her partners, and possibly her God if she has one.  Perhaps she is a cheating bitch that betrayed her husband in the worse possible way.  Or maybe not.  Why assume?

Now Katherine may believe that humiliating a women or tying her up or slapping her is immoral or perverted.  Fortunately, that is not her role to judge that for another person.

I may think that the weight requirements and stay-at-home mom requirements you list in your profile are a sign your world is all about your personal gratification.  Or maybe it is just about preferences and values and compatibility.

quote:

Or ends for reasons totally unrelated to Sex. Most marriages problems are caused by finances not sex anyway.


Actually monogamy and poly are not just about sex.  If poly was about sex, then people would just be monogamous and seek out prosititutes.  Both are about relationships.

Hell, alot of the time sex isn't even about sex.

And most marriage problems are caused by communication and incompatibility and stressors like finances just exaggerate those.

quote:

I'm glad it works for you but honestly, It's completely not for me as well as the vast majority of people.


But does that make it immoral?  Or just not for you?

quote:

I'm sure poly relationships fall apart just as often for other reasons not present in a standard marriage.


They do fall apart, and often for the same reasons as traditional marriages.

quote:

Religion has very little to do with it. It's primarly a way of preventing getting diseases. And so daddy doesn't have to go vistit his other three families, and can't take little billy to baseball practice.


See, this is where you lost me.  You state that poly is tolerated by you as long as all are aware, but then you toss this out there along with the implications. 

quote:

But not telling is so obviously unfair.


This I agree with. 

I am not supportive of people cheating on their spouses and lying to them.  I am not supportive of people cheating or lying to partners that are not a spouse either. It is also not my business, unless I am specifically asked an opinion or advice.

I think what cloudboy is getting at is the hypocrisy.  One study has found that 26% of men and 21% of women have engaged in affairs outside of their marriages. The figures are slightly higher for those who cohabit (33% for men and 30% for women). Another shows that about 60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an affair at some point in some marriage. A recent study reports  50-60% of married men and 45-55% of married women engage in extramarital sex at some time or another during their relationship.  Toss in some emotional affairs or affairs that stop short of intercourse.  Basically no one can count it for sure, but a lot of married people are doing it.

Few want to admit it.

That doesn't make it right or healthy or a positive course of action.  But there is a reason it happens and just labeling half the population as immoral is not really getting at the issue.



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