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U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/8/2009 2:08:34 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		A long-needed forceful response, or a dangerous and unnecessary escalation?



U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - NYTimes.com
WASHINGTON — The Obama administration signaled Sunday that it was seeking a way to interdict, possibly with China’s help, North Korean sea and air shipments suspected of carrying weapons or nuclear technology.


The administration also said it was examining whether there was a legal basis to reverse former President George W. Bush’s decision last year to remove the North from a list of states that sponsor terrorism.


The reference to interdictions — preferably at ports or airfields in countries like China, but possibly involving riskier confrontations on the high seas — was made by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.


.............the American focus on interdiction demonstrates a new and potentially far tougher approach to North Korea than both President Clinton and Mr. Bush, in his second term, took as they tried unsuccessfully to reach deals that would ultimately lead North Korea to dismantle its nuclear arsenal.


..........In France on Saturday, Mr. Obama referred to the same string of broken deals, telling reporters, “I don’t think there should be an assumption that we will simply continue down a path in which North Korea is constantly destabilizing the region and we just react in the same ways.” He added, “We are not intending to continue a policy of rewarding provocation.”


While Mr. Obama was in the Middle East and Europe last week, several senior officials said the president’s national security team had all but set aside the central assumption that guided American policy toward North Korea over the past 16 years and two presidencies: that the North would be willing to ultimately abandon its small arsenal of nuclear weapons in return for some combination of oil, nuclear power plants, money, food and guarantees that the United States would not topple its government, the world’s last Stalinesque regime.



Now, after examining the still-inconclusive evidence about the results of North Korea’s second nuclear test, the administration has come to different conclusions: that Pyonyang’s top priority is to be recognized as a nuclear state, that it is unwilling to bargain away its weapons and that it sees tests as a way to help sell its nuclear technology..

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/8/2009 2:53:19 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		N Korea's favourite TV programme "All Hail The Leader" (Monday to Sunday, midnight to midnight, if the electric's on) indicated a week or so back, coinciding with the lifting of the truce, that such actions would be seen as acts of war.

I dont take such a threat lightly, but neither do I think that the North - however lunatic its leaders might be - honestly believes it could win any war. And if the Chinese are going to take part in the interdictions, the North is almost certain to do nothing if their bluff is called. And the Chinese, if they weigh up their options will see that supporting the US in this will be more profitable than supporting their old friends - the US involved in a third war will not increase the value of all those US Govt Bonds.

Call their bluff. But before doing so, give them some way out to save face. Then everyone wins.

E

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/8/2009 4:17:09 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with the position of the administration on this. I have been posting the stories on N. Korea and Iran, and their weapons programs for a while. It is another reason why we need to scale back faster in Iraq, make large and fast advances in Afghanistan and apply the pressure needed to get a most satisfactory result.

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/8/2009 8:23:09 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Well if China can be brought onside, then Pyongyang really has very little hope of standing, it is utterly dependant on China. I somehow doubt the Chinese are all that comfortable with Kim having nuclear weapons and a delivery system that can reach China either, so I suspect they probably can be brought onside, they are the ultimate political realists these days.

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/8/2009 8:26:22 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

A long-needed forceful response, or a dangerous and unnecessary escalation?




          Both.

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/8/2009 11:04:22 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		The US should not only interdict N. Korean shipping...we should station at least one carrier off shore and shoot down anything they launch. If you think they will go to war...you would be wrong.

In fact, the N. Korean abrogation of the 1953 armistice gives the world carte blanch to shoot down everything in or over international waters around N. Korean. N. Korea and the UN coalition now resume...a 'state-of-war.'

Take the tactical initiative and let them get a good taste at would be national suicide.

Pass out pamphlets like we always do before bombing

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/8/2009 11:50:58 PM   
voidplay


Posts: 5
Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline 		N. Korea, Iraq and now Iran are few countries that strongly oppose living on life support and an unequal world. That includes accepting US as their guardian.

Funny when I think of it the only non european countries to own their own economy and be called 'Developed' is Israel and South Korea (and maybe taiwan). Hope I could get the magic behind that except that it falls within American interests.

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/9/2009 7:41:52 AM   
downkitty


Posts: 224
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quote:

ORIGINAL: voidplay

N. Korea, Iraq and now Iran are few countries that strongly oppose living on life support and an unequal world. That includes accepting US as their guardian.

Funny when I think of it the only non european countries to own their own economy and be called 'Developed' is Israel and South Korea (and maybe taiwan). Hope I could get the magic behind that except that it falls within American interests.


I think you missed a few ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
  1.  Iceland 0.968 (▬)
  2.  Norway 0.968 (▬)
  3.  Canada 0.967 (▲ 1)
  4.  Australia 0.965 (▼ 1)
  5.  Ireland 0.960 (▬)
  6.  Netherlands 0.958 (▲ 3)
  7.  Sweden 0.958 (▼ 1)
  8.  Japan 0.956 (▬)
  9.  Luxembourg 0.956 (▲ 9)
  10.  Switzerland 0.955 (▼ 3)

     France 0.955 (▲ 1)
  1.  Finland 0.954 (▼ 1)
  2.  Denmark 0.952 (▲ 1)
  3.  Austria 0.951 (▲ 1)
  4.  United States 0.950 (▼ 3)
  5.  Spain 0.949 (▼ 3)
  6.  Belgium 0.948 (▼ 1)
  7.  Greece 0.947 (▲ 6)
  8.  Italy 0.945 (▲ 1)
  9.  New Zealand 0.944 (▼ 1)

     United Kingdom 0.942 (▼ 5)
  1.  Hong Kong 0.942 (▼ 1)
  2.  Germany 0.940 (▼ 1)
  3.  Israel 0.930 (▼ 1)
  4.  South Korea 0.928 (▲ 1)
  5.  Slovenia 0.923 (▲ 1)
  6.  Brunei 0.919 (▲ 3)
  7.  Singapore 0.918 (▼ 3)
  8.  Cyprus 0.912 (▲ 4)
  9.  Kuwait 0.912 (▲ 4)


< Message edited by downkitty -- 6/9/2009 7:42:34 AM >

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/9/2009 12:00:21 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		For anyone who tried using the link, it worked when I posted it and didn't require registration with the Times.

If you google the headline you can still get the full article which contains a lot more detail than I posted.

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/9/2009 2:44:32 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

N Korea's favourite TV programme "All Hail The Leader" (Monday to Sunday, midnight to midnight, if the electric's on) indicated a week or so back, coinciding with the lifting of the truce, that such actions would be seen as acts of war.

I dont take such a threat lightly, but neither do I think that the North - however lunatic its leaders might be - honestly believes it could win any war. And if the Chinese are going to take part in the interdictions, the North is almost certain to do nothing if their bluff is called. And the Chinese, if they weigh up their options will see that supporting the US in this will be more profitable than supporting their old friends - the US involved in a third war will not increase the value of all those US Govt Bonds.

Call their bluff. But before doing so, give them some way out to save face. Then everyone wins.

E


I think that was the whole point of the administration's decision though.  We have been calling their bluff, for many years, as has the rest of the world.

And we have always allowed them a face-saving measure which they then used to precipitate new provocations.

Bush, who after calling North Korea a part of an axis of evil, only a few short years later removed them from the list of countries that sponsor terrorism.

It doesn't seem as if that approach has worked.



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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/9/2009 2:46:37 PM   
rfd1


Posts: 53
Joined: 2/26/2009
Status: offline 		That would be an act of war. Look all this BS about Iran, who has done nothing to us, while NK is shooting off rockets to see if they can reach the US and testing nukes bigger than anything used since WW2 and Obama is diddling around with sh*t that will only PO Kim Il Jong more.

God grow a pair and take them out

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/9/2009 3:16:41 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rfd1

That would be an act of war. Look all this BS about Iran, who has done nothing to us, while NK is shooting off rockets to see if they can reach the US and testing nukes bigger than anything used since WW2 and Obama is diddling around with sh*t that will only PO Kim Il Jong more.

God grow a pair and take them out



This was about North Korea, not Iran.

Am I missing something here or are you?

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/9/2009 4:58:04 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		You mean just wipe out 24 million people? If you use nukes, then the surrounding area which is our allies, would have casualties as well. Maybe selective take out extremist in all forms would be a better approach.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rfd1

That would be an act of war. Look all this BS about Iran, who has done nothing to us, while NK is shooting off rockets to see if they can reach the US and testing nukes bigger than anything used since WW2 and Obama is diddling around with sh*t that will only PO Kim Il Jong more.

God grow a pair and take them out



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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/9/2009 8:04:20 PM   
DreamGoddess666


Posts: 88
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Before we take them out, we need to send in a strike force to rescue those two journalists they abdusted and sentences to 12 years in prison. THEN we take them out.

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/9/2009 8:16:03 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Send Al Gore to get those girls out of North Korea. They worked for him. Maybe if we are lucky, they will let them go and keep Al .

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RE: U.S. Weighs Intercepting North Korean Shipments - 6/9/2009 9:17:02 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Send Al Gore to get those girls out of North Korea. They worked for him. Maybe if we are lucky, they will let them go and keep Al .


Better yet - get the ladies out, then send in Al Gore, and then nuke 'em. I could live with that. If we don't get Al in the bargain, then I  would be opposed to nuking the 24 million innocent people.


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