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Republicans Break Ranks with Bush over Wiretapping - 2/11/2006 2:53:58 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		"This is sort of a Marbury v. Madison moment between the executive and the legislative branch," Mr. Graham said in a reference to the 1803 Supreme Court decision in which the court granted itself the power to declare laws unconstitutional.

"I think there's two things going on," said Mr. Graham, a Judiciary Committee member. "There's an abandonment of you-broke-the-law rhetoric by the Democrats and a more questioning attitude about what the law should be by the Republicans. And that merges for a very healthy debate."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/11/politics/11wilson.html?ex=1297314000&en=ed088dc3bcc6b1ce&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss

Well, perhaps not all is lost.

candystripper
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Republicans Break Ranks with Bush over Wiretapping - 2/11/2006 4:54:55 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline 		Nice article.

It's about time those with a little backbone have decided to break the neocon ranks and semi-standup for taditional conservative values. *Real* republicans seek the least amount of goverment intervention in their lives possible, whereas what we are dealing with now, neoconismn {is that a word?}, sure seems like a more nuanced{and hawkish} form of the traditional democratic, big goverment ideals/values.


Thanks for posting that.


- The Ranger


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to candystripper)
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RE: Republicans Break Ranks with Bush over Wiretapping - 2/11/2006 6:54:37 AM   
Troubleinparadis


Posts: 55
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Tulsa, Ok
Status: offline 		I utopianranger...I tend to think one of the problems is the "system" is geared to only elect officals that wont stand up...

or rather the systme is becoming that way....nice to see someone out there still gives a shit though.....its almost a thing of the past.

bye bye miss american pie....

(in reply to UtopianRanger)
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Presidents behaving badly - 2/11/2006 7:58:55 AM   
fergus


Posts: 1110
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Our President made vast land purchases from foreign powers without consent of the other branches of government using public funds. This was done in spite of him knowing there were no specific powers in the constitution allowing him to do this with public money, nor was it universally accepted that the seller had the absolute rights to the lands bbeing sold. He then sponsored a secret mission through these lands.

President Thomas Jefferson, early 1800's, the Louisianna purchase

Our President IGNORED a supreme court ruling stating "they made their ruling, now let's see them enforce it." and took military action on American soil in DIRECT CONTRAST to the ruling. As a result, it lead to the near genocide of a people and vast seizures of land. In 1830, the "Indian Removal Act" was passed requiring the removal of ALL Native Amercians living east of the Mississippi river. The Cheorkee, living on their tribal lands in Georgia, took the case all the way to the supreme court (instead of going on the warpath). They woon their case, and the ruling was ignored. They were then set upon the trail of tears.

President Andrew Jackson, 1830. Indian Removal Act.

Our President during time of war, and under the War Powers Act suspended the laws of Habeas Corpus; a foundation of our legal system, which led to the trial and execution of many civilian American citizens by military tribunal.

President Abraham Lincoln, 1860's. Civil War.

Our President, through act of congress, enforced the Treason and Sedition act, making it a federal crime to speak out against government policies. This was a censorship of newspapers, media, free speech, and such.

President Woodrow Wilson, 1917. WWI

Our President placed thousands of American citizens in internment camps for years, disrupting their lives, businesses, and families. American Citizens of Japanese, German, and Italian decent were rounded up, had their property seized, and relocated to internment camps for the duration of WWII.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt, WWII.

Our President encouraged a secret para-military coup attempt of a foreign nation.

President Jhn F. Kennedy, early 1960's Bay of Pigs.

Our President conducted searches and seizures WITHOUT warrants on American soil leading to arrests.

President William J. Clinton, late 1990's

*whew* These were off the top of my head and I didn't even talk about Nixon. Or things that some Presidents have done that were NOT proven!

Do I worry about this wire tap thing? You betcha. Does it make GWB the ultimate evil in presidents? Nopt in the least (at least not for this ONE act ;) )

Still, let's keep vigilant people.

fergus




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RE: Presidents behaving badly - 2/11/2006 9:26:26 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		How about this:

The US gov uses depleted uranium weapons against civilian targets in Afganistan and Iraq making certain area uninhabitable for many years to come. Exposure is not only causing illness and birth defects in those living there, but in our own troops as well.

There are also areas of the US where they tested the weapons that now have problems.

We belong to a government that will use is a guinea pigs for nuclear blasts, drugs and all kinds of things. They will sometimes let us die from curable diseases just to see what happens (syphillis back in the 50s). When I say we belong, I mean just that, we are viewed as property, nothing but a chattel whose labor secures the debt they run up trying to install "friendly" governments all over the world. Like in Venezuela, where the coup only lasted 48 hours, but the Bush regime immediately recognized the illegal government, howsoever short lived. Note the THE PEOPLE of that country rose up and reinstated their lawfully elected leader, Hugo Chavez Frias.

What is going to happen is that Russia and China are going to get fed up with it and do something. Israel no doubt will try to cozy up to them but it won't work. They know who bought the US government and is causing all this shit. That's why Israel has more nukes than even we do. They will need them.

We no longer have military superiority over Russia and China to say the least. They have Moskit 2 missiles which at mach 2.1 flying at 60 feet altitude leave even the French Exocet in the dust. Well I think that is just fine and dandy, their policies of outsourcing and exporting jobs will bite them in the ass. Why don't we have the engineers and tradesmen to stay on top ? They are salesmen now, or working in the service industry.

Honestly, we might live to see the day illegal immigration is stopped dead in it's tracks, reason : nobody will want to be here. Foreign enrollment in our universities has plummeted, hell domestic enrollment has as well. Most Americans (present company excepted) can barely read and write English, as opposed to the rest of the world which is mostly bilingual at least, and in in the better countries trilingual or quadrilingual. We are at a serious disadvantage.

The tables are turning my friends and it does not look good. Why do We The People have to pay ? The answer is simple, we did not step up and STOP this insanity. This government thinks it can "reshape the world in it's own image", their own words. Going meddling in things that are clearly none of our business has cost us dearly.

I could count on my fingers the number of politicians not to be shot dead, or tortured to death.

Current rant over, more later.

T

(in reply to fergus)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Republicans Break Ranks with Bush over Wiretapping - 2/11/2006 3:25:55 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

"This is sort of a Marbury v. Madison moment between the executive and the legislative branch," Mr. Graham said in a reference to the 1803 Supreme Court decision in which the court granted itself the power to declare laws unconstitutional.

"I think there's two things going on," said Mr. Graham, a Judiciary Committee member. "There's an abandonment of you-broke-the-law rhetoric by the Democrats and a more questioning attitude about what the law should be by the Republicans. And that merges for a very healthy debate."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/11/politics/11wilson.html?ex=1297314000&en=ed088dc3bcc6b1ce&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss

Well, perhaps not all is lost.

candystripper



Tho it may be meant well in a time of need most things like this are open ended and never have an established end.
When they get done finding and tracking terrorists its pretty much an automatic process to launch a crusade against the citizens of this country to "clean the place up".
Therein lies the problem with most everything the government does. Starts out on a need basis and in a few short years is used for exactly what was promised it would never be used for.

freedoms that are lost are rarely gotten back.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Presidents behaving badly - 2/17/2006 10:19:30 AM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		Termyn8or I completley disagree with you.
I dont understand why you defend Hugo Chavez that man is a DICTATOR, he controlls the media and the military, the guy is a socipath and a megalomaniac who has no problem with killing his own poeple.
"We no longer have military superiority over Russia and China?" this statment is a joke right? Russian military is forced slavery, their technology is a complete joke, their airforce is in disrepair and outdated I can go on and on.
Dont take this as a personal attack or anything but there are plenty of immigrants from Venezuela that I had the please of working with that had to flee the country thats to the great benevolence of Hugo Chavez. They guy is batshit insane.
As far as the Russian military is concerned every male in my family served in the Russian military since the age of 18, trust me when I say this the Russian military is NOT a threat.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Presidents behaving badly - 2/17/2006 10:28:31 AM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		Just read up on DU usage apparently its all over the place, and the DU particles floating aroudn in the air after the impact is REAAALY bad for you. DOH!

(in reply to Moloch)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Presidents behaving badly - 2/20/2006 9:39:50 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Our President placed thousands of American citizens in internment camps for years, disrupting their lives, businesses, and families. American Citizens of Japanese, German, and Italian decent were rounded up, had their property seized, and relocated to internment camps for the duration of WWII.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt, WWII.

fergus


fergus, wasn't it only Japanese-Americans who were interred?

candystripper

(in reply to fergus)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Republicans Break Ranks with Bush over Wiretapping - 2/20/2006 10:57:52 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Finally a Muslim leader condemns Saddam as a criminal. Logically he'd support the government forming there if not so busy hiding and reading cartoons.

quote:

In drawing the comparison to American military behavior in Iraq to that of Saddam, he said:

"The jihad (holy war) is ongoing, thank God, despite all the oppressive measures adopted by the U.S. Army and its agents (which has reached) a point where there is no difference between this criminality and Saddam's criminality."


Find out who this "enlightened" leader is by clicking on this link: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/20/D8FSVR1G1.html

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Presidents behaving badly - 2/20/2006 11:22:09 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Moloch;

Hugo Chavez Frias IS the lawfully elected President. The CIA supported a coup against him years ago, and in 48 hours THE PEOPLE of the country restored him to his rightful position. That does not seem like a dictator to me.

You must look for some more reliable news sources than can be generally found in the US.

Military ? Russia builds, and Iran and China buy Moskit 2 missiles. Dubbed the Sunburn by the UN, they fly at mach 2.1 at 60 feet altitude and have a range of slightly over 100 miles. They leave the French Exocet missile in the dust, which is still superior to anything we have.

Our military also absolutely cannot hold Iraq, even now insurgents pop up all the time. They also are making noises about going into Iran, that would require a return to the draft. No other country is stupid enough to go along with this. The neo-cons actions in the middle east might also serve to unite Islam, a very very bad thing for us.

Also note that as the sabers were about done rattling and the offensive began in Iraq (this time) the Iraqi government was issuing weapons to their people, while at the same time there was (as there always is) legislation on the table here to curtail our Second Ammandment rights.

Problem with the US government is it is the one in need of a regime change, problem is we got 537 dictators to get rid of instead of one.

Did you know Milesovic actually got elected to parliment as he sat in a jail cell ? The neo-cons call this a slap in the dace for democracy, what doublespeak is that, ELECTED !, but thats no good. There's also a politician, duly elected in Austria who they denounced and tried to get ousted, against the will of the People, and of course this is all in the name of democracy.

Basically the story seems to be, you can have free elections and choose your own leaders in this world, as long as the US, England and Israel approve of the candidates.

They OWN the media. Turn the TV off and look for news in the free world, like Russia.

I KNOW people who are first generation immigrants from Europe and they tell a waaaay different story than what our perception of those countries have been molded into. Some are considering going back, and these are skilled people, mostly in electronics.

I also correspond with quite a few people across the globe and believe me, things are not as they seem. Sorry to burst anybody's bubble, or to slow down the flagwaving and the chanting of USA USA USA !, but we are in for some harsh reality in the near future.

To those who think we are the world's superpower, please try to get enlightened a bit. If people wake up soon enough there may be hope, if not we are in alot of trouble.

Anyone out there who would like to learn from sources other than Dan Rather and his ilk, I have URLs, documents, all kind of things for the asking. Contact me on my CM account if you want. There is alot out there, and much of it is documentable and verifiable. If you have a strong stomach, I have ALOT on what the medical and pharmacuetical interests are doing to us in the US. Put it this way, the best fed animal in this country is a lab rat. Think I'm kidding ? I can prove it hands down.

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you wish, but that should oblige you to hear my theory and attempt to rebut it. Convince me.

Let me put it this way, what they call a "partnership" between industry and government IS a conspiracy, just an overt one.

For your perusal : Do a google search for the strang "america by the numbers", it will yield a page from a site called citypages. Read that. Each point's source is quoted.

Food for thought, bon appitite'

T

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Presidents behaving badly - 2/20/2006 11:29:46 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Moloch;

One last thing, if I left this country I would not speak highly of Bush. He is indeed all those things your friend calls Chaves-Frias, in spades !

At least watch the 911 movie, either the Michael Moore or Alex Jones version, both are good. Jones is less partisan, but he draws a few conclusions with which I don't agree. Moore is obviously a democrat but the facts and the footage still stand.

T

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Republicans Break Ranks with Bush over Wiretapping - 2/21/2006 1:04:55 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Breaking ranks, huh?

Is that why the Attorney General wasn't questioned under oath?

Is that why the hearings seem to be only resulting in attempts to change the law or add new courts?

I'll believe they are breaking ranks when they actually start defending their role as 1/3 of the Federal government.

That goes for Democrats too.

I thought we elected our representatives to represent us and defend our Constitution not treat the President like a king. Even since 9/11 the Congress has been far too lax in its responsibilities to the People and the Constitution. You know dictatorships often come about not in violent overthrows but through slow steady manipulation of the government and economy. Or to quote the President "Things would be a lot easier if this were a dictatorship as long as I was the dictator."

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to candystripper)
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