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Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/13/2009 4:52:36 PM   
rulemylife


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  • Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos Sat Jun 13, 3:56 pm ET


    SACRAMENTO, Calif. – A convicted terrorist can sue a former Bush administration lawyer for drafting the legal theories that led to his alleged torture, ruled a federal judge has ruled who said he was trying to balance a clash between war and the defense of personal freedoms.

    The order by U.S. District Judge Jeffrey White of San Francisco is the first time a government lawyer has been held potentially liable for the abuse of detainees.

    White refused to dismiss Jose Padilla's lawsuit against former senior Justice Department official John Yoo on Friday. 

    Yoo wrote memos on interrogation, detention and presidential powers for the department's Office of Legal Counsel from 2001 to 2003.

    Padilla, 38, is serving a 17-year sentence on terror charges. He claims he was tortured while being held nearly four years as a suspected terrorist.

    White ruled Padilla may be able to prove that Yoo's memos "set in motion a series of events that resulted in the deprivation of Padilla's constitutional rights."

    "Like any other government official, government lawyers are responsible for the foreseeable consequences of their conduct," wrote White, a Bush appointee.
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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/13/2009 5:09:32 PM   
    DarkSteven


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    Status: offline     		Wow.  The potential is huge.  Every single detainee will be able to follow in Padilla's footsteps.

    As much as I would love to see Yoo held accountable for his actions, this would violate precedent.  No US government official has ever been held accountable for their decisions in a court of law.  Unless Yoo was found guilty of exceeding the authority of his position, I can't see him getting convicted.


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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/13/2009 5:48:32 PM   
    DomKen


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

    Wow.  The potential is huge.  Every single detainee will be able to follow in Padilla's footsteps.

    As much as I would love to see Yoo held accountable for his actions, this would violate precedent.  No US government official has ever been held accountable for their decisions in a court of law.  Unless Yoo was found guilty of exceeding the authority of his position, I can't see him getting convicted.


    His position did not give him authority to violate the US Constitution therefore he can be held responsible. Padilla is a US citizen held on US soil so it may be that this suit will not set a precedent for those held at gitmo.

    (in reply to DarkSteven)
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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/13/2009 7:24:49 PM   
    FirmhandKY


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    FR:

    Judge Jeffery White

    Be Warned: Judge Wants a Little Respect

    Firm


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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/13/2009 7:41:45 PM   
    ThatDamnedPanda


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    Status: offline     		As happy as I am to see this, I can't help wondering how it is that this suit happened to have been brought in San Francisco?

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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/13/2009 8:35:17 PM   
    FirmhandKY


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

    As happy as I am to see this, I can't help wondering how it is that this suit happened to have been brought in San Francisco?

    Judge shopping?

    Firm


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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/13/2009 9:47:38 PM   
    ThatDamnedPanda


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

    As happy as I am to see this, I can't help wondering how it is that this suit happened to have been brought in San Francisco?

    Judge shopping?

    Firm



    Would certainly seem so at first glance. That's the first thing that jumped out at me when I read the quoted text in the OP. I know Padilla is from Chicago, and was arrested somewhere  in the Midwest. His pre-trial detention was (IIRC) at a military base somewhere on the East Coast, and he was tried in Florida. The only connection I can think of to the Bay Area is that's where Yoo is teaching, or was as of last year (Berkeley, of all places.) I have to admit, I know very little about civil litigation. So I'm not entirely sure what all factors into the slection of a venue. It does strike me as rather odd, though.


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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/13/2009 11:59:54 PM   
    DomKen


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


    FR:

    Judge Jeffery White

    Be Warned: Judge Wants a Little Respect

    Firm


    Looks like the sort of judge we need more of. Was impressed that he changed his mind on the wikileaks case.

    (in reply to FirmhandKY)
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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/14/2009 12:24:30 AM   
    cadenas


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

    As happy as I am to see this, I can't help wondering how it is that this suit happened to have been brought in San Francisco?


    Probably based on Yoo's whereabouts; he teaches at UC Berkeley. Yes, the "bastion of liberalism".


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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/14/2009 12:30:18 AM   
    cadenas


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

    Wow.  The potential is huge.  Every single detainee will be able to follow in Padilla's footsteps.

    As much as I would love to see Yoo held accountable for his actions, this would violate precedent.  No US government official has ever been held accountable for their decisions in a court of law.  Unless Yoo was found guilty of exceeding the authority of his position, I can't see him getting convicted.



    Torture is also somewhat unprecedented in our history, and government official immunity has to have a limit.

    Otherwise, we shouldn't have deported Demjanjuk for trial in Germany, either.


    (in reply to DarkSteven)
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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/14/2009 6:37:24 AM   
    rulemylife


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

    As much as I would love to see Yoo held accountable for his actions, this would violate precedent.  No US government official has ever been held accountable for their decisions in a court of law. 



    I'm not really sure what you mean by this since you need only look back as recently as Scooter Libby.

    (in reply to DarkSteven)
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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/14/2009 6:44:07 AM   
    DarkSteven


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: rulemylife

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

    As much as I would love to see Yoo held accountable for his actions, this would violate precedent.  No US government official has ever been held accountable for their decisions in a court of law. 



    I'm not really sure what you mean by this since you need only look back as recently as Scooter Libby.



    I had meant that no US official has ever been held accountable for decisions they made in their job, that were within the parameters of that job.  Libby simply lied under oath and was convicted of perjury.


    _____________________________

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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/14/2009 6:44:10 AM   
    servantforuse


    Posts: 6363
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    Status: offline     		The most liberal judges in the Country sit on the 9th circut court of appeals in San Francisco. Their rullings are routinely overturned by more moderate judges at the next level.

    (in reply to rulemylife)
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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/14/2009 7:23:15 AM   
    rulemylife


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: servantforuse

    The most liberal judges in the Country sit on the 9th circut court of appeals in San Francisco. Their rullings are routinely overturned by more moderate judges at the next level.


    Well that's nice to know, but the ruling in question came from a U.S. district judge not from the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.

    A judge appointed by Bush who, correct me if I'm wrong, was not notorious for appointing liberal jurists.

    But as long as we are on the subject, do you have some documentation for your claim that cases decided by the Ninth Circuit "are routinely overturned"?

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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/14/2009 7:31:08 AM   
    rulemylife


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

    I had meant that no US official has ever been held accountable for decisions they made in their job, that were within the parameters of that job.  Libby simply lied under oath and was convicted of perjury.



    I don't know how narrowly you are defining decisions made in their job, but that is clearly what he was initially being investigated for.

    They didn't have the evidence to convict, though the fact he was convicted of perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false statements to the FBI was all based on what he was suspected of.

    (in reply to DarkSteven)
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    RE: Judge rules terrorist can sue over torture memos - 6/14/2009 7:41:18 AM   
    DomKen


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: cadenas

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

    As happy as I am to see this, I can't help wondering how it is that this suit happened to have been brought in San Francisco?


    Probably based on Yoo's whereabouts; he teaches at UC Berkeley. Yes, the "bastion of liberalism".



    Yoo's actually teaching at Chapman in Orange county right now.

    (in reply to cadenas)
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