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RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/15/2009 9:53:01 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

Possibly so where you live but here in Australia the following applies:

You know, you'd think I would have noticed the name "Kiwisub" before firing off my Amerocentric reply, wouldn't you? But apparently not! Thanks for the lesson - or rather, the double lesson!

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Post #: 21

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/15/2009 10:58:23 PM

ZenDragoness

Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
Love and marraige is great, but bankrupcy is for seven years!!!

Not to quibble, but 10 actually.

Possibly so where you live but here in Australia the following applies:

How long would I be bankrupt?
The period of a bankruptcy is 3 years from the date a statement of affairs is filed. This period may be extended by an objection entered by the trustee.

http://www.itsa.gov.au/dir228/itsaweb.nsf/docindex/bankruptcy-%3Efaq?opendocument#5

Here in Germany the time would be 7 years. It is called Privatinsolvenz. And you are supervised in the seven years.

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(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 22

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/15/2009 11:04:44 PM

ZenDragoness

Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline

Handing my own money over to somebody is something i can not even imagine. But i am no slave. My husband handed his finances over to me, shortly after we started living together. Because i am better with money and i have fun doing it. I started doing it for my mother as i was around 8, because i was really unnerved, by her monthly ritual of getting her money, then going shopping for aquarell colors and other things you need for painting and clothes. We were mostly broke around the 8. of every month and my grandparents had to come and bring us food.

I hated that situation and after a discussion, i started to manage the money.

If a slave would live here with us, i would manage his or her money in the similar way as IronBear described.

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aka Morgaine289

http://goldenerkern.blogspot.com/

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 23

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 2:57:54 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline

We are married and He handles all the finances...
sometimes i feel a bit guilty that He always does all the boring books and bills and sometimes i think i should pay more interest in procedings incase anything was to happen to Him...i believe this year i am to do my own tax (blech)
I never have to beg for any money and if i was to overspend He would tell me off i suppose.
If we'd ever divorce i would be allowed half of everything...i rather stay married and have it all.

edit to add:
I sometimes get paid cash and i take great delight in handing my earnings over to Him...it is only a silly notion really, but it turns me on... like a hooker handing her dosh to her pimp...i am such a slut... if ony i would get the same kick out of filling in my tax form...

< Message edited by ranja -- 6/16/2009 3:04:11 AM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 24

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 3:41:34 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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Well, never say never, but at this point in my life, while I'm still recovering from financial ruin after my divorce (bye bye house, bye bye 401k, bye bye nest egg), it would take a hell of a lot for me to put all of that at risk again. On one hand, I don't have any assets left to hand over, lol. But I'm rebuilding, and well, it's not that I'd give myself over to someone I didn't trust, but I also know there is no crystal ball to the future, and things go wrong and people get weird when they're losing someone they love.

Right now even the idea of being a live-in slave who doesn't work outside the home is scary to me, because in my eyes, it puts an end to my financial rebuild. I am 43 years old. I still have some time left (albeit not much) to re-create a nest egg and plan for my old age. In 10 years I won't have the same luxury. So this isn't a question I can answer off the cuff. It would have to take a long term, solid relationship, a lot of trust, and perhaps even a pre-nup or some other such legal agreement.

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Post #: 25

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 3:53:30 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Do you, (yes, I'm talking to YOU) believe that a slave is obligated to turn over their finances as part of giving their 'all' to their dominant? What would the circumstances have to be for you, as a slave, to turn them over? Marriage? Long term ownership? Living together? Something else?

Money is symbolic of the relationship always.
I've always turned my money over to the one i have been in relationship to, when asked, either as a vanilla wife, girlfriend, lover, sub or slave.
I hand it over if asked to.
Maybe it's a fault I don't know.
My Um's and the one i am in relationship with all get a share.
I leave myself until last.
It's what i do and who i am.
When i get resentful about handing over money it's usually because i am getting resentful about the relationship.
I am not a rich woman. But i am rich in ,memories, friends and relationships.
You cannot take money with you when you pass.

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(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 26

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 4:50:20 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
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Not having read all the responses and not wanting to get into a p*ing contest about definitions--here is My response:

If taken in to My home as a slave:

                  * he better work
                  * he will turn over all assets for My management
                  * I will ensure his personal spending needs are cared for
                  * I will ensure he has a savings account should he leave Me
                  * I will NOT take on a slave who has substantial or bad debt.
                  * Said slave will not inherit the bulk of My estate, but will be granted a percentage based on relationship, tenure and loyalty.
                  * There will be no marriage

If taken in to My home as a submissive

                  * he better work
                  * he has to contribute a portion to the overall household expenses
                  * he is responsible for his personal needs (luxuries and NOT cigarettes, booze, etc)
                  * he is responsible for having a savings net should something happen, I will not contribute to his relocation should something fail.
                  * I will NOT take someone in with substantial or bad debt
                  * Said submissive will not inherit the bulk of My estate, but MAY be granted a percentage based on relationship, tenure and loyalty.
                 * There will be no marriage.

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"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 27

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 6:30:24 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

FR

Just some thoughts and observations on the whole general topic.

I find how times have changed at times amusing and at other times annoying... this is one of those cases. I look at my parents, happily married for going on 45 years. Mom pretty much hands over any money she may earn to my dad, he pays the bills, budgets the money, etc. Dad carries insurance on himself such that if something happened to him, mom could pay off the mortgage, funeral expenses, etc. I don't recall that they've ever had a discussion or argument about the things I see come up in these threads about slaves and money... then again my mother isn't even the least bit submissive!

These days however, people have prenuptial agreements requiring this stuff. It gets discussed and debated and some relationships end because the submissive doesn't feel sufficient financial assurances were provided. Something about all that just rubs me all the wrong ways.

Yeah, I'd expect a slave to turn her finances over to me. Cat's rules above come pretty close to my own. I'd do my best to take care of her and IF things didn't work out, I'd see to it she left with pretty much what she came with. To those who balk I have ask,"so you're saying that you don't really trust me... you want to be my property... but you don't fully trust me... how's that going to work?" And then I give her plenty of time to think it over, while I find someone else who doesn't have those trust issues.

I don't plan for a relationship to fail, I plan for it to succeed. I'm not looking for escape clauses or exit strategies, I'm looking for life long strategies. Its a difference in perspective I suppose... I still believe things can last a lifetime, but I'm living in a world that increasingly doesn't.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 28

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 7:11:00 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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Happy to. He can do what he wants with it. One more load off. Unfortunately, I have an owner who expects me to deal with, sort, control and budget my own income.

Yes, it was part of being *his*.....when he got *me* he got it all. It wasn't actually *discussed* ....like many , many things........ it was just *known*. By the time I became *his* all that type of thing was really beyond discussion.

He has the authority to do what he wants with my income . It was never a conversation that needed to be had, and if it WAS......... it wouldn't be a situation that *I* should or would be in, frankly.

agirl

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 29

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 8:10:41 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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~fast reply~

Yup, agirl and Padriag both pretty much echoed and elaborated on my sentiment. I just can't see myself agreeing to actually own another human being if such tiny little considerations were still on the table. And to me, being able to mess with someone's money is like a grain of sand compared to the sahara desert of being given permission to mess with their internal workings. As Padriag said, "how's that gonna work?"

That being said, relationships do evolve and I see nothing wrong with using the labels "master" and "slave" more as a future statement of intent than an actuality today. But in that scenario, I'd be expecting the "master" to be tracking the fact that the reality isn't there yet so avoiding overplaying his hand.

_____________________________

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 30

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 8:13:04 AM

MarcEsadrian

Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Do you believe that a slave is obligated to turn over their finances as part of giving their 'all' to their dominant? What would the circumstances have to be for you, as a slave, to turn them over? Marriage? Long term ownership? Living together? Something else? If you're on the Top side of things, would you require this from someone? Do you assume, as a Top, that a slave who wants to give you their all includes things like their 401k's, the deed to their house and the inheritance, [...etc].

I believe a slave owns nothing, save what is allowed by his Master or Mistress. Anyone who insists otherwise is speaking of the more à la carte paradigm found in the "submissive". Being that a slave (by very extension of the word) is in concept "property" himself, his rights of ownership and freedoms are entirely subject to his Keeper. Therein lies plenty of variables in how each individual slave would be kept and used, however; it is the Master or Mistress who decides. But money is such a basic thing. It is civilization's conversion of labor into power, freedom and resources. It only makes sense that a Keeper would use the slave to make money; there are few things as tangible in demonstrating slavery than that. Not surprisingly, it's one of the most difficult ideas for people to digest, but that's often due to the fact many still see this M/s stuff as a game and not that serious.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 31

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 8:56:47 AM

agirl

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

~fast reply~

Yup, agirl and Padriag both pretty much echoed and elaborated on my sentiment. I just can't see myself agreeing to actually own another human being if such tiny little considerations were still on the table. And to me, being able to mess with someone's money is like a grain of sand compared to the sahara desert of being given permission to mess with their internal workings. As Padriag said, "how's that gonna work?"

That being said, relationships do evolve and I see nothing wrong with using the labels "master" and "slave" more as a future statement of intent than an actuality today. But in that scenario, I'd be expecting the "master" to be tracking the fact that the reality isn't there yet so avoiding overplaying his hand.

That's the nature of personal relationships. Half of the crappy ones that get ripped apart here, have grains that exist in mine!

It's all in the spin and the mix. I could present mine as wholly abusive without a lot of effort by presenting it in a specific way.

As Marc said .....I actually *own* nothing but I get to *keep* some things, at his discretion. There's quite a few things I'd like him to *keep* but he's SOOOOO generous ... cough, cough.

agirl

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 32

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 9:41:08 AM

SummerWind

Posts: 314
Joined: 7/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Do you, (yes, I'm talking to YOU) believe that a slave is obligated to turn over their finances as part of giving their 'all' to their dominant?

From the male Dom point of view: Never have and never will take a nickel from anyone. Dom, sub, lifestyle or vanilla. The way I was raised, that's as submissive an act as you can participate in.

quote:

If you're on the Top side of things, would you require this from someone? Do you assume, as a Top, that a slave who wants to give you their all includes things like their 401k's, the deed to their house and the inheritance from Aunt Gertie?

Although this may be dynamic in some relationships, my gut tells me there is a high percentage of times when the giver of $$$ is being played for a sucker.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 33

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 11:56:40 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Posts: 6992
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline Being the fair minded sort and willing to, generally, give the benefit of the doubt to a newbie, I'm going to post a question making the assumption that the kid was looking for some serious discussion on the topic of slaves and their hard earned $.

Do you, (yes, I'm talking to YOU) believe that a slave is obligated to turn over their finances as part of giving their 'all' to their dominant? What would the circumstances have to be for you, as a slave, to turn them over? Marriage? Long term ownership? Living together? Something else?

Speaking from a personal perspective only, my answer is yes.
The circumstances, for me, would be nothing other than his having ownership. Naturally, what I would see as ownership, is of course, different from what others would see it as.

I don't place restrictions on ownership; meaning, I don't require a trade off (ie; in exchange for total control of everything, you have to marry me, etc etc...bunch of bs if you ask me )

this response most closely aligns with my beliefs on this particular issue. if i become someone's slave, their property, then everything i possessed prior to becoming that person's slave and any income or other assets that i earn from that point forward now belongs to them as well. that is just the way i view slavery, tho i recognize others view it differently.

so in this household, of course my Master has always held complete control over financial matters. and because i became a slave when i was so young, there weren't the issues of having to put property or other assets in his name simply because i had none. all i had were a couple of bank accounts which were very easy for him to either control or dispose of at his will. never in my life have i even payed a bill or done taxes. however we have had to deal with those things later on, when i inherited some assets from a relative, but due to our situation that was easily transferable.

when i have worked outside the home, all my paychecks went to him. when i have earned money for him in other ways, the same thing...all goes directly to him. whether i earn money for him or not he gives me a small allowance which i MUST spend during the course of that week or so (no hoarding), and it is enough for me to buy small treats for myself like a magazine, some gum or candy, etc. certainly not enough to catch a cab or purchase bus fare for running away, lol. the allowance he gives me is the only money i have access to and the only money we consider to be "my" money. there is a bank account in my name but i have no access to it.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 34

RE: Money slaves Part deux - 6/16/2009 12:55:46 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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Well, I'm late-come to this discussion, and I hope this is still at least marginally relevant.

quote:

Do you, (yes, I'm talking to YOU) believe that a slave is obligated to turn over their finances as part of giving their 'all' to their dominant?

I believe that it depends on the scope of servitude. Training and limited servitude, IMO, would refrain from impacting either a servant's external work-life or finances (including making sure that said servant was able to continue working while in service if hir career would be jeopardized by an absence of more than a few weeks). For a servant who has chosen absolute immersion/chattel-indentured servitude, then yes -- once that point is reached, everything should revert to the Keeper(s), including all income.

quote:

What would the circumstances have to be for you, as a slave, to turn them over? Marriage? Long term ownership? Living together? Something else?

As I said earlier, for me it would require a specific agreement to enter into an agreement of chattel/indentured servitude.

quote:

If you're on the Top side of things, would you require this from someone?

I have.. along with the attendant responsibilities that when xhe was no longer capable of being in that kind of relationship with us, regardless of the circumstance, that xhe was in a position to be able to pick up hir life, financially, again, without detriment.

quote:

Do you assume, as a Top, that a slave who wants to give you their all includes things like their 401k's, the deed to their house and the inheritance from Aunt Gertie?

Only if that is specifically negotiated as part of the package. Again, this isn't something I'd expect from a newcomer to servitude with us. The only servants who have actually done this with us have been long-term servants (5+ years), and for all but one of them (who passed away from cancer while still in service), this phase of absolute yielding was temporary, and reverted to different status later in the relationship.

quote:

If you do believe that 'all' means just that, would you give out some sort of allowance or budget in things like personal grooming supplies, car insurance and other things both whether an essential or not?

If I take a servant into my household under the auspices of a chattel/indenture arrangement, then it absolutely becomes my responsibility to see to it that external expenses and some small allowance for personal needs is attended to.

Car insurance, however, would be a completely separate issue for us. A servant who was driving a HB car would be on the House insurance policy (and any increase in premium would be managed from House finances). However, recreational driving may or may not be allowed, and for a chattel/indentured servant, being allowed to drive would be a bonus -- a luxury. With that in mind, I would be inclined to arrange for (and pay for) appropriate storage of a servant's vehicle, if xhe were not to be allowed to use it, and to arrange, also, out of House funds, for any necessary taxes, etc., to be paid so that the vehicle could be re-registered in the event that the individual moved into a different status with us, or was no longer serving in the House.

Dame Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 35

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