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LocketInMichigan -> Mentoring (3/12/2004 10:23:31 AM)

[sie=4]
Here is my question what does a mentor do in detail please, I mean does he consider her his own property does he use her sexually or does he pass her to her own Master. does he take control of her day to day stuff or does he only teach about the lifestyle in of it self.



ovine -> RE: Mentoring (3/12/2004 11:41:26 AM)

Dear LocketInMichigan:
Far too often mentors are selfish beyond belief. Teaching has a higher goal than a quick fix. While that does not mean there may not be some sexual play, the main goal is to scout and weed. Weed out the idiots and that simply takes a good man with good English to see the obvious and indicate why this or that "Dom" should have no contact with the sub. It does not mean however something equally stupid from the mentor as in one of my past experiences. I am retired from journalism. I am now a sheep farmer. After a few e-mails a sub wanted to meet me and allowing the mentor to read our mails he said no to me flat out because I said no to an immediate meeting as I was in the middle of lambing and could not leave the farm. This was idiocy on his behalf that I should postpone - at the expense of risking the lives of poor lambs - a public meeting with the sub. This was just an excuse because the sub already had a crush on me and he obviously did not like it. That is selfish stupidity and not mentoring. A mentor who has a lesson plan that is agreed upon has a base level that the sub can deal with easier, not roller coaster changes in attitudes coming from a so-called mentor. - ovine in Maine



EStrict -> RE: Mentoring (3/12/2004 12:00:15 PM)

Hi Locket,

This is one I have heard a lot of debate over through the years. When I started exploring the lifestyle actively, I knew I had no patience. For that reason, I asked a trusted dominant friend to be my mentor. We both agreed that a mentor followed the definition of one who councils and gives advice. We agreed that I was to speak to him about anyone I was interested in. That he would speak to them also before we met. But, in the end the choices were mine.

I agreed that I would not rush into anything we didn't see eye to eye on, and that I would always be totally open and honest with him.

He told me that if I broke a rule we agreed on, he needed to be able to exercise some types of punishment, but, ours was a mental relationship and the punishment would be the same kinds you get in school. I had to write sentences (like *I will wait until morning to respond when I am told to* and *It is not my fault he was a jerk*). He did wonders for my self confidence. He helped me understand my *need* to please had often made me do stupid things with men. He helped me learn that there is a major difference between dominant and abusive. And he taught me to be patient.

Through the years I have mentored a lot of people too. I do not see it as a dominant or submissive issue. Everyone needs someone who can help advise them at one time or another. But, as far as I am concerned, I feel it better they act as a *teacher* and not a *trainer*, so there should NOT be physical relationship.

::Laughing:: of course, that could be because I am cerebral and don't see a logical reason to have a mentor that would be anything other than a guide.



sub4hire -> RE: Mentoring (3/12/2004 2:26:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LocketInMichigan

[sie=4]
Here is my question what does a mentor do in detail please, I mean does he consider her his own property does he use her sexually or does he pass her to her own Master. does he take control of her day to day stuff or does he only teach about the lifestyle in of it self.


Locket,
I mentor Doms and subs alike. To me being a mentor is nothing more than being say a big sister. I look out for them. Do not allow any harm to come to them.
They usually are discovering themselves. Lots of questions. I send them the right places to learn. We talk, communicate a lot. We do not have any type of physical or sexual relationship.
Although. If one tells me they want to learn how to properly spank. Or be spanked. I can arrange that. There are certain people within the scene by me that I trust.
I supervise the whole thing if it is a sub. We've talked and I understand their limits. Make sure the sub uses his/her safe words. If afraid to for any reason I will step in.
Basically I just keep them safe until they find who they are seeking. I make sure that person is also a safe person to be around.
That is my definition of a mentor. Picture big brother or big sister in your mind.

Hope this helps,



MizSuz -> RE: Mentoring (3/12/2004 6:53:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EStrict

...I do not see it as a dominant or submissive issue. Everyone needs someone who can help advise them at one time or another. But, as far as I am concerned, I feel it better they act as a *teacher* and not a *trainer*, so there should NOT be physical relationship.



I am strongly in agreement with you here, Sandy. I don't preclude a physical relationship in as much as if someone I am mentoring wants to experience sensation I often will oblige. I do not have sexual relationships with people who I am 'mentoring.' That's not to say that there is never 'heat' or 'chemistry,' rather the commitment that there is no sexual relationship is the hard limit. My hard limit.

I usually tell people they don't need me anymore long before they are willing to hear it. I'm of a mind that a good mentor simply teaches safety techniques and models good 'judgment' (haha joke to another thread) or good 'discernment.' It's someone you can go to and say "this is what I experienced (or want to experience), what do you think?" and then discussion can follow. You still make your own choices. A good mentor will talk about it with you whether you take their advise or not. A good mentor will advise, but not save you from your own folly.

A good mentor remembers that the objective is to help you find your own voice and place in this 'new world.' Graduation (and self sufficiency in 'the scene') is mandatory (and if the heat is still present, after the termination of the mentoring agreement you still have the option of pursuing it...with a better understanding of each other...two whole individual people...the best way to approach a relationship, to my mind).

However, while I may be able to give a submissive the dominant's perspective of submission (and perhaps the experiences I have seen), I can not give a submissive's perspective. I can't give a male dominant's perspective, either. While the 'guiding' or 'training' that occurs will be slanted to my own experience, I endeavor to encourage them to explore their own perspectives.

It's a relationship like any other. Parameters, limits, processes and expectations should all be discussed in advance and mutually agreed to.

That's the way I do it. Understand that micromanagement is NOT my thing (even with people I do own), and I tend to have similar preferences in mentoring. If you are someone who wants and/or needs more rigid structure in your mentoring then you should look for that. Someone who enjoys teaching through that type of interaction.



topcat -> RE: Mentoring (3/13/2004 10:42:17 AM)

Madame-

I have some issues with the concept, as you know, and I am quite in agreement with yourself and EStrct regarding actual physical interaction.

If a mentor (in the general usage) means that one teaches one how to think, that should (IMO) be the extent of the relationship in 'the Scene'.

Stay Warm,
Lawrence



Leonidas -> RE: Mentoring (3/13/2004 11:34:43 AM)

Mentoring is something that a senior member of a community should just do as a matter of course when respectfully approached and asked, or when they see that something untoward is about to happen to a novice. It is just a passing on of knowledge and experience that helps foster a safer and less dramatic environment for novice and experienced alike.

I personally think that formal "mentoring" relationships, and their bastard cousins the "protection collar", "training collar" and "under consideration" collar are a bad idea. Too often, the novice comes to think of the mentor in a formal relationship as their master or mistress anyway, and so the removal of the "mentoring" relationship has roughly the same emotional effect as removing a collar. One might just as well collar the novice and teach them. The end effect is the same. Far too often, these half-measure relationships are entered into by the less scrupulous among us who want the benefits of collaring the novice, without the commitment. After all, the "mentoring", "protection", "training", or "under consideration" relationship is by definition finite. Unfortunately, this is a fine vehicle for someone who wants to use the novice for a while, but with no intention of keeping them, or even engaging in the kind of intimacy that would be expected with an actual collar.

Here is some mentoring for you novices who might be reading. Don't be so afraid to take the full measure of life. The likelihood that the first collar that you are placed in (or the second, for that matter) will last the rest of your life is very low. People change, or aren't what they seemed in the first place, and you won't find that out from the outside looking in, no matter how hard you try. You are going to get your heart broken a few times before you really find yourself. All the "training collars" and "protection collars" in the world won't change that. They'll just keep you with a toe in the water, instead of swimming. When you get older, you won't remember so much or regret so deeply the betrayals and the things that ended. You'll remember the best of the times that you had, and regret all the time you spent worrying about what to do, instead of doing. If you don't want some mentoring from me, listen to Ghandi:

"Live as if you'll die tomorrow, learn as if you'll live forever".

Take care of yourselves.

Leonidas



MizSuz -> RE: Mentoring (3/13/2004 3:42:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Madame-

I have some issues with the concept, as you know, and I am quite in agreement with yourself and EStrct regarding actual physical interaction.

If a mentor (in the general usage) means that one teaches one how to think, that should (IMO) be the extent of the relationship in 'the Scene'.

Stay Warm,
Lawrence


Lawrence! (You found me <smile> It's wonderful to see you here!)

Do you really believe mentoring is teaching someone to think? My experience has usually been (with any formalized mentoring relationship) to teach safety/technique and to encourage them to think for themself and honor their own truth in integrity as they know it.

Love to you *BOTH*!



ShadowHwk -> RE: Mentoring (3/14/2004 6:50:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LocketInMichigan

[sie=4]
Here is my question what does a mentor do in detail please, I mean does he consider her his own property does he use her sexually or does he pass her to her own Master. does he take control of her day to day stuff or does he only teach about the lifestyle in of it self.


Locket,

My take on this is that:

1. A mentor does NOT have a sexual relationship with the sub/slave.
2. A mentor provides lifestyle guidance.
3. A mentor provides a different perspective on certain situations.
4. A mentor encourages students to think for themselves.
5. A mentor watches out for, and warns said student of any pitfalls that he/she sees.
6. A mentor encourages and teaches good decision-making.
7. A mentor may provide guidelines and possibly punishments when/if the sub/slave steps out side of the guidelines.

Those who take on the mentor role and then use that role as a way to get into the sub/slaves pants are not really mentors, just another kind of predator.

Sub/slaves often come to think of their mentor as a Master/Mistress/Dom/Domme - and this is where the mentor has to be very careful - and firmly set the boundaries and parameters of the mentor/student relationship.

Just .02


Peace and Light
Terry



dannie12345 -> RE: Mentoring (3/19/2004 11:03:47 AM)

how do you find a mentor in an area that has little in the are a[:(]



MistressKiss -> RE: Mentoring (3/19/2004 11:19:07 AM)

Don't kill me for saying this...but perhaps I have an extremely unusual situation...and I mean extremely unusual.

I have a close friend in the lifestyle that I consider a Mentor. Perhaps I am using the wrong name here because we do have a "physical" relationship. We have not had intercourse; however, when we are experimenting with scenes, we do practice other sexual activity outside of intercourse. Much of the experimentation is "does that feel good" or "does that hurt" (grins - or "does that hurt too much"...laughs).

I realize it is very unique. I consider him a friend, a play partner, AND a Mentor. It's multidimensional. Overall, I do agree that someone functioning as a Mentor should not have a physical relationship with the other person. However, don't preclude the fact that there are rare cases that a multidimensional relationship can work.

I will admit this, however. There are times that it does get "strange". I have even been in tears with him over where our boundaries lie and what we actually are to each other. It's not a loving relationship - other than a close friendship. But, we all realize that all relationships have their issues. Still, the challenge of working it out makes it worthwhile and we do have a high value that we place on our relationship with each other. I suppose I would label it first as "friend", second as "Mentor" and last as "play partner". If I had to give one of the three up, it would easily be the play relationship because I value the others much more.

Don't take my comment as promoting sex with a Mentor, because that is not what I am saying. Be responsible and communicate.

[image]local://upfiles/10574/Rp447213727.gif[/image]



Leonidas -> RE: Mentoring (3/19/2004 12:12:00 PM)

Hi Kiss,

You're alright. What you are describing probably doesn't fit the mold of "mentor" as it's being used here. The cultural taboo, if you will, against mentors having a physical relationship with a novice is to keep the experienced (or those who claim to be) from preying on the novices. What you are describing sounds like a friend with whom you engage in mutual exploration. Neither of you are in the position of being taken advantage of by virtue of relying on the superior knowledge and wisdom of the other.

Take care of yourself,

Leonidas.



topcat -> RE: Mentoring (3/19/2004 4:58:11 PM)

Madame-

I think we are going on the shoals of syntax, here. I'd say, having seen you mentor, that we have much the same concept of what it entails.

Perhaps, instead of 'teahing them to think' , I should have said 'teaching them to think for themselves'. And of course, guidence as to safety, technique, tools- all this and more.

But don't fuck 'em<g>.

stay warm,
Lawrence



MizSuz -> RE: Mentoring (3/21/2004 6:17:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Madame-


But don't fuck 'em<g>.




It would seem that we are (as we have often been) in agreement.

I've seen a mentee who 'tested' the validity of my commitment to that (no fucking) hard limit. Almost as if it would have been some sort of coup had she been able to crack it. My way of handling it (it being the covert attempts to test the edges) was to be blithely ignorant, not even acknowledge it. When she finally did say "why not with me?!?" my answer was forthright - "Because you are, in your mind, still my mentee. I have told you that you are ready to be on your own, but you still refer to me as your mentor. Until I am not your mentor in YOUR eyes we will NEVER go there - that was our agreement." She stopped testing the limit and I believe that our friendship has grown immensely because of the limit (and the keeping of same).

You really should meet her. I don't know why I didn't think of this before.

You really should meet her. We should set something up.



afmvdp -> RE: Mentoring (8/20/2004 11:06:54 AM)

This is something I have been wondering about lately, how many people here have actually been mentored as a Dom or as a sub?



MrThorns -> RE: Mentoring (8/20/2004 11:32:57 AM)

I have had some very informal mentoring from a dominant in my area. Basically it consists of drinking coffee until I cant see straight, learning how to make toys, use toys, and general BDSM philosophy. I consider him more of a confidant than a mentor, but in the context of how mentor is being used in this discussion...I think it fits.

~Thorns



perverseangelic -> RE: Mentoring (8/20/2004 12:37:59 PM)

I was mentored, very informally and online. (My only experience with online 'submission') When I was first entering the world of BDSM I was lucky enough to meet a wonderful person online. He basically walked me through a variety of situations.

I'm not explaining this well. It wasn't a cybersex relationship. He simply explained to me his outlooks as well as trying to give me insight into other pespectives. It was much like the mentoring descirbed in this thread, though we didn't call it that. We never intended to meet in life, and never did anything close to actual sex, though he did have disiplinary capabilities (as much as you can through the net). So, from my way of thinking, I've been mentored, and was very lucky.



Sundew02 -> RE: Mentoring (8/20/2004 1:04:09 PM)

Again as with most things there seems to be a slight difference in the definition of the word. To me, and this of course as always is my opinion, a mentor is a peer who has information you want or need and they are willing to pass along. So a mentor for a Dom/me would more than likely be a Dominant. A mentor for a sub/slave would be a sub/slave.
No sex, no domming, only a learning experience. When I decided to become more active in the community and to learn more intricate play I found a mentor. Mine just happened to be a Domme, but I would have accepted a Dom in this particular instance. For a year she used her males to show me things I wanted to learn, took me to area groups, introduced me to people that could demonstrate play she didn't do, etc. I learned quickly and enjoyed the support of another dominant.
I see no reason why this would not work on the s side as well. Learning by demonstration is an excellent way to get the jest of what is going on without the stress of wondering if you are displeasing a dominant. Sundew



DallasDiva -> RE: Mentoring (8/20/2004 8:31:01 PM)

I was very lucky in my experience. When I first discovered the lifestyle...but did not know it had a name....I came in contact with a very honorable gentleman who became my mentor. He was a professor and taught me as a professor would teach his students. This was not a sexual realationship, we were friends who respected eachother and the process. We both knew it would never become more. He had lost his submissive / wife and was not looking. I was looking...but only to learn. He lectured me, had me do research in many areas not only in general BDSM, had me compose essays, even (because he understood this is how I learned and retained info). We met and talked over long lunches and such. He was there for me, with limits because I would have went insain if there were no limits. He taught me the lifestyle as if it was a college course...he was experienced in actual teaching and in the lifestyle...it worked, for me. He and I both wanted to make sure that this was what I was seeking. I explained, when we first met, that I always jumped into things too soon. He made sure to understand the way I learned and retained knowledge. We never sessioned, emotionaly he could not do that, at the time. When I was ready he introduced me to a friend of his and I learned more of the physical, not actually sexual, aspects of the lifestyle. I then went on to get more emotionally attatched to the lifestyle and continued my journey.

I use the same method when mentoring Dommes and Doms (giving them some great mental and educational tools before going for the physical), however I do also train on such physical things as how to use equipment properly and safely.

So for some...the mentoring process works and is benifitted from.

Ms Hill



subbiejenn -> RE: Mentoring (8/20/2004 10:01:05 PM)

i am not a Master and hope No one minds me posting my experience in this section ..

My first Dom i met (real life) became what i call "Teacher/Mentor” He has been extremely helpful to me in teaching me safety/technique, but W/we have "played" sexually also. i guess You would call it sexually, He has shown me what a lot of things feel like.. (Canning, nipple clamps etc...) I had been reading and chatting online about BDSM for couple years and really wanted the experience. i wanted to FEEL some of the things i had read about. O/our relationship from day 1 has never been more then Teacher - Student (for lack of better terms). I've known Him now 2 years and i feel very lucky to have met Him because He makes sure i stay safe, i talk to Him about what i am feeling. I had been looking for a Dom to be more of a serious relationship and He has helped me in that a great deal. He is my safe call if i meet a Dom in real life. He has talked with Dom's that i am interested in to make sure He doesn’t see any warning signs.

he doesn’t consider me His property and when i find that Dom i want to call Master He knows i will no longer see Him sexually which has not been much lately anyway.. Now that i have felt a lot of things i don't see Him as often but W/we do talk a lot still.

Day to day stuff....... hmmm He doesn’t "control" my day to day life but i do discuss it with Him. If i have a problem i ask for advice even if it is part of my vanilla world and He helps there also.

i think just like the relationships Masters/slaves have are all different, with different rules so is the relationship with Mentors. It all depends what You NEED from the Mentor or what You agree for the relationship to be.



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