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RE: letters - 6/22/2009 8:35:06 AM

beargonewild

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Yes it is way too easy for a sleazeball to swipe most or not all of a writer's work and claim it as their own and sadly it happens all the time. Many of the laws concerning intellectual property and ownership needs to be more defined by the legal beagles to ensure that a photographer or a writer is given their rightful due concerning their work.

quote:

"5 or 10% of another's work"

As I said, this is just a recollection and exactly what the percentage is based on the overall work or per page or per paragraph, I don't know. Since I live in Canada, I have a good working knowledge on the general copyright laws here as I had some written work published many years ago.

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RE: letters - 6/22/2009 8:37:14 AM

beargonewild

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You could very well be right .dark!

eta - Each country has their own specific laws regarding copyright and all the poems and prose I wrote over the years are registered as being being copyrighted by me.

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 6/22/2009 8:41:24 AM >

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Post #: 42

RE: letters - 6/22/2009 8:44:14 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

Original: ranja

But if someone recieves a letter and feels outraged at some of the text they are surely allowed to discuss this with or show it to other people than whoever wrote it in the first place without their consent?

IMO, not using quotes from the letter. Xhe'd be within hir rights to discuss the -idea(s)- that outraged hir, but not to show the letter to others or directly quote from it other than to the sender.

quote:

If the writer wants total control of the text should they not have sent it perhaps?

Again, IMO - it is -often- necessary to send correspondence that is likely to be poorly received by the other individuals. Just because someone won't like what is being said is no reason to withhold saying it. If it were, more than half of all conversations, verbal or written, would be left to smolder un-presented.

quote:

Also if someone receives a letter and totally misunderstands it can the writer not ask for a second opinion by showing the letter to another party without the consent of the one the letter was addressed to?

I'm guessing you meant 'reader' in this paragraph, and, again, I would say "no" -- the reader could ask, in a non-specific way, regarding questions of the -concepts-, but not show the letter or quote it without asking for permission to share a private correspondence with others.

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RE: letters - 6/22/2009 8:50:47 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

Original: purepleasure

If you come into possession of a collection of love letters and other correspondence between your parents, some of which include important family information(in your parent's handwriting and both are deceased), should they be destroyed, or kept? I haven't read all of them. There are about 50, I read 4 or 5.

I would keep them, or ask other family members if they wanted them before I discarded them. If someone finds them -really- valuable, I wouldn't necessarily keep them at home. Especially with correspondence, because the paper and ink are pretty easily damaged over time, I'd take mine to a documents archivist and have them sealed.

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RE: letters - 6/22/2009 9:02:39 AM

GreedyTop

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Pure, I agree with Calla on this... consider that at some point a generation or few from now, someone may want to do a geneaology.. things like that are treasure for that reason, if nothing else...

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RE: letters - 6/22/2009 1:53:28 PM

DemonKia

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FR, after read thru

Copyright protects the unique expression of thought, not the thought itself -- thus one may paraphrase copyrighted text, for instance . . . . .

Rather than guess about US of A copyright rules, here (the site is pretty user-friendly):

http://www.copyright.gov/

(The following excerpts / links have been taken from that site . . . )

I am gonna note that the copyright holder has the obligation to take action to enforce their rights . . . . . .

Copyright infringement is generally a civil matter, which the copyright owner must pursue in federal court.

How long does copyright protection last?

As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years....Works created on or after January 1, 1978, are not subject to renewal registration. As to works published or registered prior to January 1, 1978, renewal registration is optional after 28 years...

How much can be excerpted?

There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances.

& finally, Fair Use . . . .

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RE: letters - 6/22/2009 5:37:32 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

Who do you think a letter belongs to, the writer or the one it is send to?

Who can decide what to do with this letter? If you forinstance would like to make the letter public? Would you think this is acceptable at all, regardless really of what is in the letter...does the person who sends the letter lose the right to keep the information in the letter private? But what if the person who wrote the letter has a copy that they wish to let someone else read too but the person the letter was send to does not want that?

I personally think that once the letter is written and send that then both parties have equal posession of the text and can if they so wish make it public to a wider audience, regardless of what is in the text and regardless of the wishes of the other.

Depends on the letter.

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Post #: 47

RE: letters - 6/22/2009 10:59:00 PM

HatesParisHilton

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"
Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
The nature of the copyrighted work
The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work "

see, this is where it all breaks down.

if I can fuck with the fair use aspect, that means I can fuck with the %'s of original work being used and thus get away with intellectual property BLUE MURDER.

Case in point: Satire codiciles and addendums and contexts. Most laws allow satire as a cheap and herpes/anal wart deserving loophole, meaning if you FUCK with original material CLAIMING that the intent was for satire - making people laugh - even if you are the Unfunniest fuckstick on the planet, then you can swipe to your heart's content with NO fear of litigation, formal reprisal, etc., as opposed to someone doing a "respectful version of (---)".

Look at Mad TV kicking the shit out of George Lucas and Lucas Ranch and the ILM facility. You think Lucas signed off on that? Of course not. In fact, even if Lucas owns a million and one rights to the original SW material, he can't do SHIT about Blue Harvest (thanks, Seth cFarlane) even if it (Blue Harvest or any Fox funded satire lampooning George Lucas) makes George's Balls turn blue violet in the night.

Why?

Seth is under Fox contract and they run/own the fair use rights to SW (including all related Int Prop material such as Clone Wars, any spin-off material, etc.) so they can let Seth do what they think will work/what they accept no matter what Lucas likes.

Also if Seth had the money he could do it indie under the USA satire laws.

So fair use is a lot more complicated than that link first appears, Greedy, but I appreciate your intent in posting it.

< Message edited by HatesParisHilton -- 6/22/2009 11:20:18 PM >

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Post #: 48

RE: letters - 6/23/2009 4:19:04 AM

ranja

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No CallaFirestorm I meant writer.
As in if i write a letter and i receive an answer that demonstrates that my writing is being misunderstood and after discussion i still feel the reader is not getting my point and i wish another person to read my words to see what they make of it...
You see i thought that maybe after i sent my letter that it is then not mine to decide what to do with anymore, but now i understand that is not so, that the words remain mine so obviously i am free to discuss contents of my own writing with whomever i choose.

Also i very much like the idea that unless a letter states that it is private and confidential that really the reciepient of a letter is quite free to discuss or even publish all or parts of a letter. This does not mean that i endorse stealing other peoples work for financial gain or that i think it is acceptable to slander a person, but i do feel that if a person is not comfortable with anybody else knowing anything about what they wrote then they should either not send the letter or make absolutely clear that the matter is not open for general discussion.
I think sometimes it is unfair or a bit silly at least to just expect people to keep secrets...because maybe it is not even clear it is a secret... or maybe the person is totally unequipped to keep a secret, or maybe the secret is too heavy a burden to bear for a person.

Another point i am still not clear on... are emails sent from one direct email address to another under different copyright type rules than emails sent through CM or are all emails different from snail mail letters?
I have copies of all my letters in Word...i usually paste and send either email or snailmail, so D&D yes i meant emails as well as snailmail letters i was not aware they are considered different.

< Message edited by ranja -- 6/23/2009 4:51:38 AM >

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RE: letters - 6/23/2009 5:10:03 AM

ranja

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I am not so handy at doing the quote thing so i fiddled with colours to get my lines in

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

Original: ranja

But if someone recieves a letter and feels outraged at some of the text they are surely allowed to discuss this with or show it to other people than whoever wrote it in the first place without their consent?

IMO, not using quotes from the letter. Xhe'd be within hir rights to discuss the -idea(s)- that outraged hir, but not to show the letter to others or directly quote from it other than to the sender.

Would it not be much clearer to use the exact text to demonstrate the point rather than give it a slant by changing the words into the idea of the recipient which might then morph the whole thing out of context?

quote:

If the writer wants total control of the text should they not have sent it perhaps?

Again, IMO - it is -often- necessary to send correspondence that is likely to be poorly received by the other individuals. Just because someone won't like what is being said is no reason to withhold saying it. If it were, more than half of all conversations, verbal or written, would be left to smolder un-presented.

If someone writes a letter knowing it will be poorly received they should really have no issue with the recipient sharing their distress about this kick in the teeth with somebody else who they feel might understand them...elst you are expecting them to smolder un-presented...to me this smacks of playing faul a bit...like i'll send you a nasty letter and now i know you'll hurt inside and you'll have to keep it all in because my letter is private so there....no, this surely can not be right

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RE: letters - 6/23/2009 5:56:02 AM

purepleasure

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No matter how private you feel a letter may be, there is always the possibility of the recipient of sharing it with others. If you are concerned with that happening, careful, clear and concise word choice should be in order in your letters, whether they are of a personal or professional nature.

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RE: letters - 6/23/2009 5:41:50 PM

DemonKia

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After read thru

Ranja, personally I never put anything in writing (hard copy, digital, whatever) that would trouble me to be seen by others . . . . .

& I agree with you that the privacy of an email or letter cannot be validly used as a cover for abusive behavior (insults or other hurtful material), that's a good point . . .. . .

& anyone who has secrets to keep but puts their secrets into writing may be making a problematic choice; I can envision all kinds of scenarios of how that can be gamed on both sides of the secret sharing . . . . . . .

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Post #: 52

RE: letters - 6/24/2009 3:45:51 AM

ranja

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Thank you all for your input

So far i know that the writer owns the text so they are in their right to share this with whomever they choose...(if the letter is specifically about someone i suppose it would be wise to protect innocent parties by changing names otherwise the writer might be done for slander or at the very least just come across as an uncaring dork)

The recipient of the letter has ownership of the actual piece and if the letter does not state that it is private and confidential (top sectret) they are entitled to show this to whomever they choose but are not allowed to publish it in a book or something unless the author agrees...although it seems a bit difficult to actually endorse this...also the author should be given credit for their writing at all times...although it seems to me some might actually want to deny they wrote something...

DemonKia i agree with you that it is unwise to put anything in writing that would be troublesome for a person if it was read by others.......people do unwise things though and if even more unwise and they send it, they probably just keep their fingers crossed that the recipient keeps things private...but with the 'private' letter in their posession the recipient most definitely has one over on the writer...this is obviously so exiting (or dreadful) about blackmail...

Thank you all

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