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Help Requested - 2/13/2006 8:32:28 AM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

Two part question really.

Is there any tip or trick that a submissive can use, to maintain a safeword while in subspace?

If not, is the common thing to do, just to safeword out as soon as you start feeling floaty/dreamy, to avoid bad experiences?

I'm hoping LA of some of the other experienced people have some good advice on this. I had a really bad experience over the weekend. It's about shaken my confidence in all this.

Peace ... cc

Post #: 1

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 8:36:49 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Two part question really.

Is there any tip or trick that a submissive can use, to maintain a safeword while in subspace?

If not, is the common thing to do, just to safeword out as soon as you start feeling floaty/dreamy, to avoid bad experiences?

I'm hoping LA of some of the other experienced people have some good advice on this. I had a really bad experience over the weekend. It's about shaken my confidence in all this.

Peace ... cc

Some make sure that they have something in their hands that they can drop, or they use wiggling of the fingers or toes for such a thing.

For me personally, because I tend to completly lose myself, I have to rely totally on my partner to know when to stop.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 2

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 8:42:31 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Caitlyn,
I wish I had the perfect answer for you but I don't. This is exactly the reason why I don't like safewords. Once you are gone, you are gone and safewords aren't going to help. I'm sorry that you had this experience. For me, the only thing that I can tell you is that I am very selective about who I play with. They need to know me and how I normally react. If I am playing with someone new I prefer to do it in a public setting where there are those there who are familiar with my play style. Safewords are no substitute for a Dominant who is intune with the person he is playing with. I have not safeworded out at the moment I approach space...but I can tell you that you are not alone, I too have had bad experiences as a result of not being able to safeword....no ill intention on the part of the Dominant...just instances where the Dominant could not read the signs. Maybe LA will have something to add that might be of more benefit.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 3

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 8:44:49 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Some make sure that they have something in their hands that they can drop, or they use wiggling of the fingers or toes for such a thing.

For me personally, because I tend to completly lose myself, I have to rely totally on my partner to know when to stop.

The problem with the something in the hand...or the wiggly toes thing is that at the moment of hitting space I would drop anything I was holding...and conciously wiggling anything would be impossible.

As you stated, you pretty much have to rely on your partner which is why it is so important to be with a partner you trust in my opinion.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 4

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 8:44:56 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
Is there any tip or trick that a submissive can use, to maintain a safeword while in subspace?

Other than not going into subspace, none that I know of.

quote:

If not, is the common thing to do, just to safeword out as soon as you start feeling floaty/dreamy, to avoid bad experiences?

The common thing that HAPPENS is that the bottom goes into subspace and then gets angry and pissed at the dom for any bad experience that happens.

Also, some doms do not allow their bottoms to go into subspace for this and other reasons (although they get a bad rap for being meanies).

I was having a great scene once and my leg slipped and cut off some circulation. I knew but I didn't care- I was flying. One of the tops there noticed it and got me down right away. Kudos to them. But I couldn't have immediately foisted all blame and wrong doing on them if they hadn't caught it. No limits were being pushed, no rules were being broken.

Unfortunately you've stumbled on one of the problems with safeword. They are only as good as the people using them.

I could help more if I knew of the details.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 5

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 9:05:26 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Two part question really.

Is there any tip or trick that a submissive can use, to maintain a safeword while in subspace?

If not, is the common thing to do, just to safeword out as soon as you start feeling floaty/dreamy, to avoid bad experiences?

I'm hoping LA of some of the other experienced people have some good advice on this. I had a really bad experience over the weekend. It's about shaken my confidence in all this.

Peace ... cc[/color]

Subspace can distort your responses to the point where you may not be able to safeword. This is why safewords are only one of a number of techniques like "checking in" to assure continued consent.

As for safewording on the onset of subspace: I'm not sure what you mean by "avoid bad experiences" but it isn't uncommon for people to safeword if they are unfamilar with subspace and just recognize "I'm feeling weird."

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 6

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 9:05:30 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Is there any tip or trick that a submissive can use, to maintain a safe-word while in subspace?

If not, is the common thing to do, just to safe-word out as soon as you start feeling floaty/dreamy, to avoid bad experiences?

caitlyn,

There really is only one answer to your question, only session with people you know intimately and who know you and your body's responses intimately.

The scene you describe is a reason I don't use or believe in the use of safe-words. Many use safe-words as a short cut. The problem is safe-words do not replace time and experience required to develop the confidence to play and be played without them. You achieved a state, "subspace", that is a listed goal for submissives. Considering a safe-word during the journey gets in the way of obtaining that state. How can you maintain "control" over the part of your mind necessary to say your safe-word while at the same time letting yourself go to achieve the euphoric "subspace"? On the other side, if your Dom is only going to hold back or stop if he hears a safe-word and you are in "subspace", you can easily be hurt seriously.

beth is incapable of verbalizing anything during a session. Once in "space" there is no amount of sensation that could change that. It took time for me to understand her body's reaction. It took time for her to trust me. There are no shortcuts. I think there is a good argument that you can not get into "space" when you are playing in a safe-word; or as what seems to have occurred in your situation, your brain has re-wired the sensations in such as way, that if your scene climaxed with chopping off a finger it may have produced an orgasm instead of a scream of your safe-word. If you get that "deep", as beth does, you better be playing with someone who is aware of that fact about you.

Subspace is a desirable state, but it can be very dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't know what to do with a submissive who has obtained it. Don't lose confidence from this experience, learn from it.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 7

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 11:16:38 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Two part question really.

Is there any tip or trick that a submissive can use, to maintain a safeword while in subspace?

If not, is the common thing to do, just to safeword out as soon as you start feeling floaty/dreamy, to avoid bad experiences?

I'm hoping LA of some of the other experienced people have some good advice on this. I had a really bad experience over the weekend. It's about shaken my confidence in all this.

Peace ... cc

Caitlyn,
I am really sorry this happened to you. I think this falls to your partner to make sure that you are ok. Many times my submissives have not uttered a word and I have actually stopped to see if they are ok. I will ask and if they do not answer, I will look into their eyes. If I notice that they are "gone" I will gently pinch them to make them more aware that I am trying to get their attention. I know this doesnt help you in what you are looking for, my only advice is to ask your partner to check on you if they are not doing it. Explain that when you are in subspace you havent the ability to safe word out. If they are not willing to do this or dont do it, then I would think twice about playing with them again.

_____________________________

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 8

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 12:13:45 PM

FTopinMichigan

Posts: 571
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline

Caitlyn, I am sorry for your 'really bad experience.' Perhaps some time will help you to figure out all that happened, but as an intelligent and strong woman, I know that you won't allow your confidence to be shaken too long. Even the worst of experiences are learning ones. I hope you are well.

A former friend of mine, came into my home for a private party. She went into deep subspace (for the first time), during a first time scene with casual first partner that she just met that night. I was not in the bedroom with them, but it was brought to my attention as she drifted off, and her partner took advantage of the situation and went way too far with her. Not only did she go into subspace, I believe he drifted beyond reason himself.

Apparently neither was capable of assessing the scene, and both went too far, causing her to bleed while on my bed (not the best etiquette at a private party, and she later complained that I should've told her the "rules" for the party...but that's a whole 'nother thread). Anyway, the huge issue was that she was completely unaware of what was happening that night. She was enjoying herself, in spite of being cut open (not bleeding profusely, but enough to wet her skin and clothes, even though she didn't realize until she got home that night). The Dom was well aware of how far he went, as he worked to cover the blood when I entered the room. I immediately put a stop to the scene. He did not, and still won't, accept responsibility for his actions of going too far that night, with a first timer.

After reflecting on the situation, much after it occurred, we concluded, and she agreed, that it would be best not to scene without a spotter. Her lack of experience and ability to be vocal while drifting into subspace, caused her physical harm once, and to prevent it from happening again, an option was to always have someone there to watch.

My understanding is that to this day, unless with her own (long distance) Dom, she must have a spotter, for her own protection.

Just one solution, but still not full proof. Having intense scenes with someone that is aware of you and your desires, as well as holding your trust is best. But I guess that's not necessarily full proof either.

I send you a hug!
K

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 9

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 3:35:02 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

Thanks for all the advice.

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)

Post #: 10

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 3:50:06 PM

Sensualips

Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

Maybe use the "yellow" to let the top know "hey, I am starting to get floaty and dreamy and you are going to have to be in charge so be on alert to stop soon." Perhaps if you discuss this ahead of time?

I agree safewords can give a false sense of security though, like safecalls or any number of other things.

While you are smart to decide how to handle this in the future, don't forget to deal with the now and any after effects. Sorry it was sucky for you. :(

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 11

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 5:12:42 PM

UtahGoddess

Posts: 205
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Utah
Status: offline

I agree with others that you should play with people that know you well. Before playing with someone new let them know about your tendency to "float away."

I think sub space is as individual as each bottom. That's why Dom/mes need to closely observe the sub in the session. My feeling is, if a submissive isn't aware enough to safeword they are not aware enough to consent either. At that point I will call the scene.

I also suggest you talk to the Dom/me you last scened with and communicate your feelings. They cannot fix what they do not know.

Ms Sandi

< Message edited by UtahGoddess -- 2/13/2006 5:14:02 PM >

_____________________________

"The Masochist desires to experience stronger sensations, but desires that it should be inflicted with Love. The Sadist desires to inflict stronger sensations, but desires that it should be felt as Love" Havelock Ellis The Project Gutenberg

(in reply to Sensualips)

Post #: 12

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 6:21:40 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

My feeling is, if a submissive isn't aware enough to safeword they are not aware enough to consent either. At that point I will call the scene.

UtahGoddess, this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that. I will admit, it made me actually stop and think for the first time in along time. I tend to be one of those who becomes incapable of speech in any form once I hit that space of mine; because of this, I have always been very careful about anyone who I let touch me. And yet, I have had others tell me that they will not even concider playing with me because I am 'too intense' for them ( one even went so far as to say that I scared him ). Makes me think that maybe they were just thinking the same thing...that if I am not aware of enough to speak...I must not be aware enough to consent either.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm and stop cold.

Thankyou, you really have given me something serious to think about.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to UtahGoddess)

Post #: 13

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 6:53:09 PM

UtahGoddess

Posts: 205
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Utah
Status: offline

Irish,

My slave is one of those "scary bottoms." When my boy starts flying he cannot speak, cannot see, and most of the time can't stand. It takes him a good 10 minutes to "come back to himself" afterwards as well.

The first time it happened, it scared me, but I soon learned it was just his reaction to subspace. Once he is in that place he is no longer aware of what I am doing to him and so cannot consent to further stimulation. So I will stop the scene and begin aftercare.

Glad I could help

Ms Sandi

_____________________________

"The Masochist desires to experience stronger sensations, but desires that it should be inflicted with Love. The Sadist desires to inflict stronger sensations, but desires that it should be felt as Love" Havelock Ellis The Project Gutenberg

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 14

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 7:15:09 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Well, assume I say to you the following:

The whale is undoubtably one of the largest mammals alive today?

Answer:

Like that..............

If you don't get it you don't got it and we have to have an earnest discussion, you see?

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to UtahGoddess)

Post #: 15

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 7:24:50 PM

ropesubby39

Posts: 112
Joined: 9/30/2005
Status: offline

I rarely use the safeword, but my Dom often talks to me and when there is no reply, usually it means i am gone gone, but after 4 yrs, He has come to know my body reaction and knows when to stop.

ropesubby

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 16

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 7:31:57 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

Don't go there with someone who does not know you and how you react.
There are some people who can go out there and scene and fly high and have a great night.
Then some just throw their trust out there and want to Experiment! But have some trouble after because of their sensitive/vulnerable nature.
Establish a sense of some kind of relationship, experience a trust pattern with this person, start little and grow into bigger risks, etc.
And Communicate!
How your partner will check in that you are okay.
How if you are not okay the signals you will give.
Talk to each other and plan as best you can before you play.
Don't interact where there isn't a feeling of strong mutual respect.

*Brightspot

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-TD4TwEw8crWS3GHFDcs_DK1rHmW6Dq_E;_ylt=Av2PfG9gH0wkQrMPivuMCivGAOJ3

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 17

RE: Help Requested - 2/13/2006 8:30:51 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Two part question really.

Is there any tip or trick that a submissive can use, to maintain a safeword while in subspace?

If not, is the common thing to do, just to safeword out as soon as you start feeling floaty/dreamy, to avoid bad experiences?

I'm hoping LA of some of the other experienced people have some good advice on this. I had a really bad experience over the weekend. It's about shaken my confidence in all this.

Peace ... cc

i don't have a safe word.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 18

RE: Help Requested - 2/14/2006 8:30:43 AM

MasterRobert1

Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline

This is the time when a sub/slave really-REALLY- has to trust her/sis Dom/me, when they are in subspace. I've never seen anyone able to use a safeword while in the ecstatic throes of subspace. Why choosing a responsible partner is so very necessary.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 19

RE: Help Requested - 2/14/2006 9:11:19 AM

Elegant

Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline

(Disclaimer: Master Archer and I use a safeword as a signal that I need to communicate verbally with him, not as a signal to stop or slow down)

There are some people (myself included) who can safeword even when in deep subspace. Early on in our relationship (8 years ago) Master had me use the safeword in any situation it was needed as a precursor for need to verbally communicate for a special need, not just S/m play. Because of this the word became almost a mantra and ingrained into my subconscious.

I can be off in never-never land and if something dire happens (once a fire ant crawled on my breast and bit me while I was spacing) I will safeword. Of course, at that point I am usually so high that I cannot verbally communicate clearly but at least it is a signal to Master that I need to convey something important to him.

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 20

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