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Submissive and slave - 2/13/2006 2:25:18 PM   
naughtynick


Posts: 207
Joined: 1/20/2006
Status: offline 		I get the idea of the difference between the both. A submissive has a choice to say no to something in a situation but a slave doesn't, except for his or hers limits?

Is a submissive expected to do house work to? Or is a submissive only expected to do sexual things that involves contact with the Mistress and not work like wash the dishes etc?

This domme messaged me yesterday, she was only 22 but she was rude and disrespectful towards me. She obviously didn't know what bottom means when she told me that her family has been into BDSM and she has had it with her for all her life....yeah right.

She was expecting me to be a slave by what she was saying but my profile says submissive. I asked her what type of things she is into, and she said she is looking for a house boy to do all her house work. I told her that I am a bottom and she should be looking for a slave rather than a submissive for what she is after.

What gets me the most annoyed about this situation and this particular domme is not the only one. I get this type of treatment from a lot of dommes I come across. Just because I don't suit her needs she becomes very rude at me and just leaves in a rush of saying something like "ok you are not good enough for me bye" or says abusive things and puts me straight on block in a rude manner. A lot of dommes out there can at least say, “sorry you are not the right type for me, I hope you find what you are looking for”. Instead of being real arrogant towards the person about it. This would not bother a lot of people but it makes me feel irritated. I expect at least some manners when I am just first approaching a domme. I don’t mean in BDSM play.

Is this normal for most dominants to treat people like this when they are only negotiating or sharing each others interest? Do men and women dominants do this? I expect to be treated rude in BDSM play but when it’s just getting to know each other and sharing each others thoughts, why do a lot of dommes have to be so rude towards me?

I get the idea, some dommes out there think just because they are a female and they are a Mistress, they think they can treat a guy as nasty as they want because they have so many guys to choose from and a guy has less choice in choosing a woman (Obviously a woman can find sex easier than a man). A lot of dommes I have come across expect every guy to change his role or change his limits of things because she is a domme giving a guy a chance and the guy has to jump at her beck and call and change his whole interest for her. I have had some dommes expect me to be totally different to what my profile says. Grrrr this gets me pissed.

What is your knowledge on this?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/13/2006 2:44:13 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick


I get the idea, some dommes out there think just because they are a female and they are a Mistress, they think they can treat a guy as nasty as they want because they have so many guys to choose from and a guy has less choice in choosing a woman (Obviously a woman can find sex easier than a man). A lot of dommes I have come across expect every guy to change his role or change his limits of things because she is a domme giving a guy a chance and the guy has to jump at her beck and call and change his whole interest for her. I have had some dommes expect me to be totally different to what my profile says. Grrrr this gets me pissed.

What is your knowledge on this?



Sadly it happens on both sides of the dynamic, I was counselling a female submissive today who felt the same way about Doms---so it isnt gender specific---

I am glad you posted this because I was not sure how to restate this again:

IMHO when two are in what I call the interviewing phases--there is NO Domination or submission-- there is communcation and respect for the individual on both sides----basic human courtesy--during this stage you should not be treated as anything less than a human being with a common interest--the rudeness is pervasive on both sides of the equation with many thinking dominance equates to rude, obnoxious domineering--I "hang" with alot of Doms and Dommes here that are good Dominants but would never think of approaching a sub with the "kneel bitch attitude" ( well at least until a commitment was gained--<smiles>).

Some Dominants forget---you might not be good enough for them, but they might not be good enough for you!


Hang tough!


_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


(in reply to naughtynick)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/13/2006 2:47:26 PM   
naughtynick


Posts: 207
Joined: 1/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314


quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick


I get the idea, some dommes out there think just because they are a female and they are a Mistress, they think they can treat a guy as nasty as they want because they have so many guys to choose from and a guy has less choice in choosing a woman (Obviously a woman can find sex easier than a man). A lot of dommes I have come across expect every guy to change his role or change his limits of things because she is a domme giving a guy a chance and the guy has to jump at her beck and call and change his whole interest for her. I have had some dommes expect me to be totally different to what my profile says. Grrrr this gets me pissed.

What is your knowledge on this?



Sadly it happens on both sides of the dynamic, I was counselling a female submissive today who felt the same way about Doms---so it isnt gender specific---

I am glad you posted this because I was not sure how to restate this again:

IMHO when two are in what I call the interviewing phases--there is NO Domination or submission-- there is communcation and respect for the individual on both sides----basic human courtesy--during this stage you should not be treated as anything less than a human being with a common interest--the rudeness is pervasive on both sides of the equation with many thinking dominance equates to rude, obnoxious domineering--I "hang" with alot of Doms and Dommes here that are good Dominants but would never think of approaching a sub with the "kneel bitch attitude" ( well at least until a commitment was gained--<smiles>).

Some Dominants forget---you might not be good enough for them, but they might not be good enough for you!


Hang tough!




Thanks, I will keep that in mind. At least I know that I wont click with the person before meeting her.

< Message edited by naughtynick -- 2/13/2006 2:51:09 PM >

(in reply to MHOO314)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/13/2006 3:04:52 PM   
MistressFire70


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		People can be crappy no matter where you go or what you're doing. If they're offensive, they're not the right one for you.

As far as bottom, sub and slave definitions, there's no dictionary of terms...so what someone would expect a sub to do or be, another might expect a slave to do or be. Case in point: my girl technically self-identifies as a submissive. When we talked about what that meant to her (and subsequently what it meant to me), we found that her definition of a submissive and my definition of a slave were the same. her definition of a slave was very similar (but not quite the same as) my definition of a submissive. she chose, on her own, to change her self-label to slave using my definition. So, she's now slave girl anne.

I would expect a sub or slave to do what I asked unless it is exceeding one of their limits. Most people can't honestly put down that cleaning the toilet is a hard limit. But, this is just me and my opinion.

Fire

_____________________________

you have come to a great chasm. Jump. It's not as wide as you think.

(in reply to naughtynick)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/13/2006 5:22:57 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		nick,
I know you're in there pitching, so just hang on tight.
Don't start confusing the submissive vs slave vs bottom thing. For most, a bottom is just that. Someone who wants to bottom during play. Bottoms are not necessarily even submissive. This is why I tell you that you are a bottom. For the moment, you are simply looking for kink experience. Even though it would be nice to think that everyone should understand the idea behind that, and even though you have a clearly written profile, people don't always bother to read and figure things out.
As to this:

quote:

I get the idea, some dommes out there think just because they are a female and they are a Mistress, they think they can treat a guy as nasty as they want because they have so many guys to choose from and a guy has less choice in choosing a woman (Obviously a woman can find sex easier than a man). A lot of dommes I have come across expect every guy to change his role or change his limits of things because she is a domme giving a guy a chance and the guy has to jump at her beck and call and change his whole interest for her. I have had some dommes expect me to be totally different to what my profile says. What is your knowledge on this?


I think you might be running into some Domina's because they think this is how a Domina is supposed to act. And there are also those who enjoy acting that way.
I do have a question. You say she messaged you. Did she initiate a correspondence, or were you in a chatroom? Or did you write to her or did you intitate a converstion somehow? As much as your profile is clear as to what you are seeking at this time, you need to be careful about who you contact and try to make sure they are seeking the same thing. And that goes for both sides. If you did not initiate this, then you ran into a lady who did not bother to read your profile and made an assumption.
I do have to laugh...not at your expense, nick...about the comment:[font]

quote:

I have had some dommes expect me to be totally different to what my profile says.


I repeat, not at your expense, nick! I do absolutely understand your frustration. It has happened to Me more times than I care to remember.
Be patient, sweets!

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 2/13/2006 5:24:36 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to naughtynick)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/13/2006 9:57:27 PM   
naughtynick


Posts: 207
Joined: 1/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

nick,
I know you're in there pitching, so just hang on tight.
Don't start confusing the submissive vs slave vs bottom thing. For most, a bottom is just that. Someone who wants to bottom during play. Bottoms are not necessarily even submissive. This is why I tell you that you are a bottom. For the moment, you are simply looking for kink experience. Even though it would be nice to think that everyone should understand the idea behind that, and even though you have a clearly written profile, people don't always bother to read and figure things out.
As to this:




quote:

I get the idea, some dommes out there think just because they are a female and they are a Mistress, they think they can treat a guy as nasty as they want because they have so many guys to choose from and a guy has less choice in choosing a woman (Obviously a woman can find sex easier than a man). A lot of dommes I have come across expect every guy to change his role or change his limits of things because she is a domme giving a guy a chance and the guy has to jump at her beck and call and change his whole interest for her. I have had some dommes expect me to be totally different to what my profile says. What is your knowledge on this?


I think you might be running into some Domina's because they think this is how a Domina is supposed to act. And there are also those who enjoy acting that way.
I do have a question. You say she messaged you. Did she initiate a correspondence, or were you in a chatroom? Or did you write to her or did you intitate a converstion somehow? As much as your profile is clear as to what you are seeking at this time, you need to be careful about who you contact and try to make sure they are seeking the same thing. And that goes for both sides. If you did not initiate this, then you ran into a lady who did not bother to read your profile and made an assumption.
I do have to laugh...not at your expense, nick...about the comment:[font]

quote:

I have had some dommes expect me to be totally different to what my profile says.


I repeat, not at your expense, nick! I do absolutely understand your frustration. It has happened to Me more times than I care to remember.
Be patient, sweets!



She emailed me through here first and than we ended up chatting on msn for a while. It was not long until she went. I don't think she knew what bottom meant. She probably didn't bother to read my whole profile. Oh well, there is someone out there :-)

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/14/2006 2:03:57 AM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

Is a submissive expected to do house work to? Or is a submissive only expected to do sexual things that involves contact with the Mistress and not work like wash the dishes etc?



My submissive husband does the dishes, the laundry, the house cleaning and the cooking. However, most subs don't want to do the chores. They want the fun sexual contact. Realistically though, what the sub is expected to do, is whatever was negotiated at the beginning of the relationship.

quote:

she was only 22 but she was rude and disrespectful towards me


Some Domme, especially the newer ones, have yet to learn the difference between Dominant and bitch. Often times, their examples of a Domme come from male fantasy material. They try to live up to that. Just shake your head and move on.


quote:

Is this normal for most dominants to treat people like this when they are only negotiating or sharing each others interest?


no. As MHOO314 said, you should expect to be treated with respect and courtesy by someone who isn't your Dominant. They have no rights over you. You're not submissive to the world.


_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to naughtynick)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/14/2006 7:56:06 AM   
cbts4gd


Posts: 16
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		i think you hit it right on the money. and of coarse the whole rude thing gets amplified when they are online, and don't have to face you.

The good news is there are some really nice dommes, but unfortunatly it seems for every one nice there are 3 or 4 rude.

(in reply to naughtynick)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/14/2006 10:23:41 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick

I get the idea of the difference between the both. A submissive has a choice to say no to something in a situation but a slave doesn't, except for his or hers limits?



Actually this isn't always true.

Some people use words interchangeably.

In the guy SM community a bottom = submissive = slave until very, very recently and I think that it reflects a wider contact with other communities and the growth of publications which require more specific terms to communicate with your reader.

If someone contacts you in a way you don't like I'd either not respond (which Miss Manners just said last week was a perfectly polite way of telling someone you are not interested FYI) or simply say "Thanks for contacting me, but after thinking about your note and looking at your profile, I feel we are not a suitable match". If they keep responding to you -- block them or if it gets nasty, report them to the mods.

Here's some news today from my local newspaper that may explain why some women respond in an impolite fashion and some men allow them to do so -- personally I don't think there is ever an excuse to be impolite or to be "in scene" when you first meet someone.

I'm betting the number are even more skewed for folks into BDSM of any type.

US Census Bureau Listing of Single Men : Single Women by Ages

In your 20s =
All Men: Women = 120:100
Hispanics = 153:100
Asians = 132:100
Non-Hispanic Whites = 120:100
Blacks = 92:100

Now the numbers change over the decades to the point that by our 60s and later so that single women out number single men by 3 to 1.

This just made me think of BDSM and the common claims of more men than women into BDSM of any type. Lots of problems with my connections (obviously not all of us are single or monogamous) and they don't ask questions about kink in the Census.

and this has been a total ramble...





_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to naughtynick)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/14/2006 10:51:53 AM   
LthrdWolf


Posts: 92
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Re Dominant rudeness ...you can put a monkey in a suit (fet wear) ...but it is still a monkey.

Sorry you are getting these responses,but I just Know you are intelligent enough not to tar 'all' female (or fill in the identity) Dominants with the same coarse & rude brush.

Don't continue reading (once you see the nature of the content,or recognize the moniker) offensive messages,& maybe block them ....or really rise above them,& write back with a brief polite Thank you for their response,'you' will be the bigger person & who knows they might end up wanting you some day (life is funny like that,) but by then you will simply be 'unavailable' & be able to say ..."Thank you anyway Ma'am" <---note still polite ...& walk away.

LthrdWolf

< Message edited by LthrdWolf -- 2/14/2006 11:02:49 AM >

(in reply to naughtynick)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/15/2006 12:15:59 AM   
MsPurrmeow


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline 		The other responders did very well so far, I only have a few things to add and some emphasis. Your current definitions of submissive vs slave need to be washed away. You have the right definition of yourself as a bottom. Be prepared for the fact that not everyone shares the same dictionary. Also, be prepared to have to explain YOUR definitions about your own terminology. You'll find that many of the really good profiles do precisely that. My own definitions of slaves and submissives are very different from the norm, it seems, but when provoked to explain them, there are always a few that agree emphatically.

We all come from different backgrounds, and different levels of experience. Some go by whatever the "kink-101 book-of-the-day is" and others have learned it the hard way. As unique as we are as people, the definitions and labels are often as much so.

As for rude and immature dominants... trust me, they come in all genders and all ages. Just blow them off and move on. I've heard rumors of this 22-year-old with a lifetime of experience a lot lately, and it seems that the behavior is more for a 12 year old. This is simply lack of maturity in any realm, much less leather or BDSM. Don't paint your opinions with a broad stroke. There are a lot of young people here, but it's prudent to differentiate them from the immature, the same goes for older folks. The lifestyle is rather new for many, many people. As folks mature in experience and knowledge, they are often much more calm and collected, (but not always.)

Stick to your guns and make sure your profile says exactly what you are and what you are not looking for. If someone seems to have forgotten how to read, just refer them back to your profile and ask "So, what part of my profile made you think I would be a good fit for you?" If you are nice, the nasties will self-segregate on their own, or maybe rethink their interactions with you and everyone will end up coming out ahead.

(in reply to naughtynick)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/15/2006 6:10:23 AM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Is this normal for most dominants to treat people like this when they are only negotiating or sharing each others interest? Do men and women dominants do this? I expect to be treated rude in BDSM play but when it’s just getting to know each other and sharing each others thoughts, why do a lot of dommes have to be so rude towards me?


Unfortunately, there are those individuals who, behind the anonymity of a computer screen, will say and do things they'd never do or say in a face-to-face encounter. Just remember we're not all like that.

Personally, I think a lot of what you encounter online is new folks who get caught up in all the Internet hype of what a dominant or submissive is "supposed" to be, and forget they're dealing with a living, breathing PERSON on the other end of that instant message or email. Once people venture out from behind the computer for a while, they tend to relax a little and stop taking themselves so seriously.

Hang in there.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


(in reply to naughtynick)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/15/2006 6:15:20 AM   
friskiesub


Posts: 49
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		MsPurrmeow: I was quite impressed with your thoughts. Very well said. By the way all - I thought this was a good topic to discuss.
thank you

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Submissive and slave - 2/15/2006 10:53:24 PM   
MsPurrmeow


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: friskiesub

MsPurrmeow: I was quite impressed with your thoughts. Very well said. By the way all - I thought this was a good topic to discuss.
thank you


Thank you. Feel free to peruse my profile and contact me if you ever want to chat.

I think it's a great topic, too. We cover a lot of bases by helping people understand and answering some of the tricky questions.

(in reply to friskiesub)
Profile   Post #: 14
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