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RE: Asking for help - 6/22/2009 8:56:48 PM

janiebelle

Posts: 332
Joined: 4/29/2009
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I learned to ask for help the hard way. After my huband's passing, I went through a bizarre need to prove I could handle things just fine on my own. You can imagine how well that worked out. I was finally cornered by his best friend and told, simply "janes, you and I have known each other long enough that you should be able to pick up the phone and just ask for help. Or for that matter, to just ask me to handle something for you all together." Bam. Who knew? I had never had a problem asking my husband to help, but for some reason, I equated my loss of my husband to my loss of help. Talk about the forest for the trees.
Asking for something I simply want, however, is another story. I was never good at that with him; for the reasons previous posters have mentioned. Thinking I was being too forward, putting him out, or just thinking it was inappropriate. How that pans out in my next relationship is yet to be seen. But from what I have read here (thanks, Jeff!), I think that it would be great to overcome those obstacles.
j

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 21

RE: Asking for help - 6/22/2009 10:21:21 PM

pixidustpet

Posts: 857
Joined: 6/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
And you don't own that.

Which is an interesting point. I have pointed out to Carol that not asking is in fact removing authority from me by preempting my decision. Sadly, that point was a bit too esoteric for her *laughs*

I think the thing I said which most resonated with her was this.

We equate our dynamic to driving a car. I'm the driver and she's the passenger. She helps navigate and even set ultimate destination, but in the end, it is my job to drive the car. And if we're barrelling down the highway then she covers up half the windshield (what's going on in her mind), it's almost certain to end poorly -- dramatically poorly

The idea that there would be significant thoughts in her head that she was withholding from me is downright creepy given how much control I exert over her life.

ow. fuck. now i owe TheEngineer yet ANOTHER confession. i really dont like you sometimes, leader!!!!

thank you. that put things in better perspective to me, so i know how to do my "job" as being his, better. i do really appreciate that.

kitten

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 22

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 12:48:44 AM

kuriouswitch

Posts: 325
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline

Oh I hate asking for help for anything! Recently Master and I had this very problem, me needing some things to change but not able to voice it then getting frustrated when he couldn't read my mind and then things just kind of coming to a head. It resulted in a LOT of talking and some rule changes and more talking ect but I think it'll always be hard to ask for help because I feel enough like a burden just on a normal day but when you add the need to ask for help on something it just makes it ten times worse.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 23

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 5:52:03 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

My problem is that I always feel I'm just putting another burden on him and he has enough to deal with already. His response was to say that dealing with my problems was a break for him because he could shift gears and not deal with whatever else for a while.

Of course it's easier to start with small things. "Could you carry the laundry basket (or the dog food) upstairs?". It only takes a minute of his time and won't involve much. He can do it during a commercial. Like everything else, it's easier to do one step at a time.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to kuriouswitch)

Post #: 24

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 6:55:07 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

At the very beginning of any relationship, I have issues with asking for help or anything. But that is to do with learning where people are and where they stand.

In a long term relationship as I am now, I have no issues and it's easy. To make the decision that something may be too much of an extra burden or that I am being a hassle, usurps and takes control away from Master.
So I pretty much echo beth.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 25

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 7:10:52 AM

oceanwinds

Posts: 530
Status: offline

I have and still do have problems in asking for help. I am not good at it, and it brings me negative feelings. Late hubby tried to change that, but I still could not. To this day, i will not and don't see me changing that.

< Message edited by oceanwinds -- 6/23/2009 7:11:33 AM >

_____________________________

I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 26

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 8:09:31 AM

janiebelle

Posts: 332
Joined: 4/29/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwinds

I have and still do have problems in asking for help. I am not good at it, and it brings me negative feelings. Late hubby tried to change that, but I still could not. To this day, i will not and don't see me changing that.

My LH would even get to the point of "Do you want me to get that?" and I'd answer "No, I've got it, thank you, Sir".
Until he told me something like "Listen, I am being nice here. I'm going to carry it. Would you rather I just snatch it out of your hands?"
Point taken. After a while, I would even ask for help without feeling like I was putting him out.
j

(in reply to oceanwinds)

Post #: 27

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 8:55:18 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
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ugh...that this issue is still one i struggle mightily with after 9 years is a bit embarrassing. asking for help, asking to be heard, asking for wants or desires...all of it just seems either selfish or inappropriate. that is especially the case as my Master is not the "complete transparency" sort. He doesn't want to know every little thing in my head or heard 100% of the time. yes, he wants to know the important stuff...at the appropriate times and expressed in the appropriate manner of course...but how does one determine what the "important" stuff is??

(in reply to janiebelle)

Post #: 28

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 7:00:07 PM

Kalista07

Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
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i would like to thank everyone for their comments on this thread. i must admit that i am more than surprised by some of the women that struggle with this, who i've always viewed as very competent and strong women......
the.dark, what kind of time frame would you say this is 'normal' to occur in? We haven't been together for a long time.. It's only been 22 months (and i've been living with Him for the past 16 months.
There are times and things that are easier for me to ask for.... Tonight He wanted to stop and get something at a restaurant to eat, and i didn't feel up to it...So i asked Him if it would be okay if i just ate what we had here. He of course was more than okay with this and even offered to make it for me. i suppose many of you are right and this is something that will (hopefully) get easier with time..
i do appreciate your comments, Jeff. It is important for me to put these things into perspective and realize that even by trying to do things so i don't 'burden' him or worry him or whatever i am usurping his authority.
Kali

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 29

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 7:23:18 PM

brandi1379

Posts: 137
Joined: 3/3/2009
Status: offline

I have a real problem with beating around the bush when i need to ask for something or say something that is really important to me. Ive always been that way. Here awhile back something happend where i felt a certain way towards Sir and i was unable to tell him i beat around the bush for like 30 mins before i was able to say what was really bothering me. Its something that really have to work on. Now if its something trivial i have no problem asking, it just seems to be the more important stuff....not sure really why tho.

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 30

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 10:35:17 PM

danielh

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline

Kalista,

You mentioned some things, illness, guilt, "increasing" awareness of this. You have a good relationship... I'm feeling other issues here which are intruding on your relationship, probably not going to be solved within your relationship. "Guilt" is not part of submission.

I read your profile, you're sensitive, caring, you sound like a real sweetheart. Kalista, you revealed something on another thread, you know where I'm going... and it's hurting you now.

Find some counseling outside of your relationship. Something on a professional level, someone who can help you get this off your chest and explore. I have a strong feeling this is a symptom, not the problem. You need to find the source of this, and it probably doesn't lie anywhere within your relationship with your Dominant Other. Seriously. You're beyond what you're going to find here.

Take care.

< Message edited by danielh -- 6/23/2009 11:14:35 PM >

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 31

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 10:46:01 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
i do appreciate your comments, Jeff. It is important for me to put these things into perspective and realize that even by trying to do things so i don't 'burden' him or worry him or whatever i am usurping his authority.

Actually, I feel strongly enough about this issue that I wanted to clarify and I'm just going to go ahead and be passionate about it. Let me talk about my wife and my marriage, not you and your relationship. When this issue came to a head between Carol and I, I told her flat out that she either figured a way to get more vocal or the collar was coming off -- now. I didn't say that because my authority was usurped. I didn't say that because my domly ego was damaged. For me, those things are not even remotely comparable to the fact that I feared it would destroy our marriage.

I exert a LOT of control over Carol's life. I mess with the intimate details of both her external world and her internal world including core items like her value system. I adjust her emotional responses and I fiddle with the way she views the world around her in significant ways. To my knowledge, there is no "off limits" for me. Without very good and detailed feedback, that is just plain suicidal. I'd rather take the collar off than lose the woman I love. In fact, it was perhaps the most serious issue (from her side anyway) that we've ever faced.

Put yourself in my shoes or his shoes. Imagine yourself having intimate control over someone else and they aren't telling you all the really important stuff so you're flying blind. Even worse, imagine that you love that person. No thank you. Not for me. For me at least, this goes WAY beyond some sort of BDSM pseudo-infraction like "usurping my authority". Going out to dinner is a small example and even there you can see how it worked out better to speak up. But with more serious commands, the stakes get raised considerably and there is no room at all for this sort of thing. What when the price tag for you not speaking up isn't measured in an unhappy meal but rather in terms of long-term emotional scarring?

OK, I'm off that soapbox.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 32

RE: Asking for help - 6/23/2009 10:51:20 PM

jeninvegas

Posts: 79
Joined: 6/11/2009
Status: offline

Definitely yes for me too. It's a sense of pride for me that for some reason I refuse to part with the deadly sin...but alot of times my wants override my need to protect my pride, heh heh.

_____________________________

"If you're going through hell, keep going..." -Winston Churchill

"9 out of 10 guys like girls with big boobs; the 10th guy likes the 9 other men." --Just Shoot Me

"Baby, when it's love, if it's not rough, it isn't fun." Lady GaGa.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 33

RE: Asking for help - 6/24/2009 1:41:57 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
the.dark, what kind of time frame would you say this is 'normal' to occur in? We haven't been together for a long time.. It's only been 22 months (and i've been living with Him for the past 16 months.
Kali

Hello Kalista - It just wouldn't be fair for me to put a time frame on it for you or anyone else. I have been living with Master now for about 10 months and have known each other three years give or take a few months. I cannot say what the 'normal' time frame is because it's different for everyone. For me, I could not and would not have submitted had I not been able to trust and give all authority over to Darcy. I would not have moved in with him before I was comfortable to ask for anything. That is what is normal - for me.
The thing with me is that I have dependants and pets and my work fluctuates to the extent that I rely on Master. If I didn't ask for assistance, time, etc or for what I or my dependants need and would like, Darcy wouldn't be kept informed and that would take away his ability to both have authority over any decision made and take away what is important to him - his ability to take care and to provide.
The minute I make the decision over what Darcy can do or provide by not asking is the minute that Darcy loses authority in our relationship. So it's simple for us. I ask and explain the reasons why I ask for something and then Darcy decides where it goes from there. I simply comply.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 6/24/2009 1:44:18 AM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 34

RE: Asking for help - 6/24/2009 8:54:50 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

I never had a problem with this because from the first master said whan you have a NEED tell me about it. I will help you with it. He also said i should tell him my wants. Those are up to him weathe he gives them to me or not. I don't ask him for all my wants though. if i WANT a ieice of candy i don't ask master for it i will get it myself but for other wants he is the only one who can grant them, so i have to ask.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 35

RE: Asking for help - 6/24/2009 9:18:32 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

..

< Message edited by daddysprop247 -- 6/24/2009 9:19:53 AM >

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 36

RE: Asking for help - 6/24/2009 9:25:27 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

hi Kalista,

i just wanted to say that you are very fortunate in that your Master sincerely wants to know all of your needs and even your desires from what you have expressed here. some of us are not in such a situation. therefore, by expressing these things to him you are pleasing him, and i imagine it is especially pleasing because he knows that it is not something that comes naturally to you and that you must struggle with a bit (those Masters just love when we struggle and overcome).

yes, there is also the very critical point made by others that he needs all the information possible in order to effectively and positively lead the relationship. but i think perhaps it may also help if you consider this from the aspect of serving and pleasing him.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 37

RE: Asking for help - 6/24/2009 10:39:24 AM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

yeah, but in truth, that whole line is just a bit of pretzel twisting that I had hoped would get Carol to speak. Like I said, it was too esoteric for her and didn't work. In truth, what I call not asking is...

Crappy Communication Skills
and/or
Crappy Relationship Skills

In Carol's case, I also call it "disobedience" and it's punishable by release.

Jeff,

I only know Carol from what you've told me of her, but from that I gather she's a pretty smart cookie.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and see if I can't help explain why it isn't such an esoteric idea to comprehend, but that it is a much more complicated issue than you might think.

Like others here, I too have difficulty in asking for things I'd like and need. Although Firm and I don't have the kind of relationship where I have to petition him or beg him for things, he is the leader of our relationship and when it comes to something that either involves him or will affect him, I find myself at a loss at times. Granted, this isn't a big issue between he and I... but nonetheless, I have put considerable thought into it occasionally.

Yes, I don't want to put him out... I don't want to further burden him... I don't want him to feel obligated to do anything he doesn't desire... and yes, I do figure if it is something he was interested in and wanted to do, then he'd already be doing it.

It isn't as though I've hidden myself from him, either. He's a smart man and from the beginning he and I have talked a lot about what we each need and desire. Before we lived together I wrote long emails describing to him my feelings and desires, and I've often written here about my views in addition to offering advice to others based on my own needs and perceptions.

Because I want Firm to be happy and have what he wants and needs, I've paid attention and made note of those things he has talked about that I am able to do for him. I suppose it is presumptuous of me, but I kinda assumed the same for him... if I've expressed a desire for it and it's not happened, I figure he's either unwilling or unable. I don't want to put him in an awkward position by pointedly bringing it up.

There is, of course, always a chance that it is something he missed or forgot about. That would be completely understandable, but from an emotional side, it would hurt a little to think an expressed desire of mine was of so little consequence to him that he couldn't be bothered to pay attention or to remember. It depends a lot on my own understanding of what I've said. And believe me... I'm very aware of what I've said when it comes to my desires, and how I've said it. That's a by-product of being so often uncomfortable in expressing them.

*sighs* Then again, men aren't always as in tune to the subtleties of communication going on... something as uncomfortable to me as expressing a want or need might not be couched in blunt terms such as, "I want this" or "I need that." Understanding this, I do try to be less circumspect. For example, I've said before that I dislike having to tell someone what I want as a present... my view is that a present should be a demonstration of the giver's thoughts and feelings of you... what they believe will be representative of what you and your presence in their life means to them. lol... I don't like telling people what I mean to them. Seems kinda presumptuous, to me. However, this year I specifically mentioned to Firm what I'd like, should he desire to get me anything at all. It was something that I had mentioned before, but the manner in which it was mentioned was off-hand and something I doubted he would remember.

Anyway, while I can fully understand the need to directly voice my desires, it is harder to explain the emotional impact. Sometimes the act of asking, ruins it for me. It's tied in with a lot of the reasons above, but more so with the idea that if it was something he wanted to do, he'd already be doing it. Of course, as I said, if it's something I really wanted to do, then it's something I've already mentioned and more than once. If after three years together, he started doing something that he hasn't been doing all along, I'd feel like he was only doing it for me... and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it because I'd be focused on the thought that he really didn't want to be doing it.

It's a catch 22, and yeah... women have too much going on in their heads.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 38

RE: Asking for help - 6/24/2009 11:22:37 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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Thanks Treasure:

In truth, I knew all of that.. or at least I have over the last 5 years or so. It caught me by surprise when we were first married but I'd like to believe I'm not entirely stupid and it's been 15 years now *laughs*.

But the bottom line remains that I am way too actively involved in her inner and outer world now for such things to work out well. I'd rather move to a less extensive form of authority transfer or just plain go back to vanilla than run substantive risk of ruining my marriage and/or her. This is one of those cases where the rule is hard and fast... not because I'm so domly... but because I'm too scared of the consequences to continue on our current path without solid communication.

As another aside, it is this very conundrum... the problem of pitting her needs against my own... that is a large part of the appeal to her for submitting. It's one of the greatest gifts I can give her is to get out of that problem. All she has to do is let go of her ego and let me decide. I know it's not easy, but it is doable -- she's learned quite effectively. I'm actually amused that she argues with me much more vociferously and effectively as my slave than she ever did as my wife. Either I'm doing something really right or really wrong *laughs*.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 39

RE: Asking for help - 6/24/2009 3:22:16 PM

ACryFromTheSoul

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/21/2006
Status: offline

I have a hard time asking for what I need. I tend to feel selfish, self centered when I do so and it is emotionally painful for me to ask for help(in all my relationships). And this becomes especially hard when I really need help, but am simply unable to reach out because I don't want to burden someone else.

Add to is, I have not had good experiences when I have asked for help in the past... so I tend to want to do things myself because I know it will get done and I won't become disappointed/hurt if someone does not follow through.

< Message edited by ACryFromTheSoul -- 6/24/2009 3:24:28 PM >

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 40

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