RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (Full Version)

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Politesub53 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 1:52:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

They have the right but why should they have it?


Because we live in a democracy. If we take away the right to vote we no longer live have a democratic process.



HatesParisHilton -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 2:24:00 AM)

BUllshit to everything that says someone benefiting from use of tax payer dollars should have the right or privelage of NOT voting.

I say voting should be a LEGAL OBLIGATION, for anyone that spent ONE DAY benefitting from a public school, went ONE YARD down a public road, and if they don't vote in LOCAL, STATE AND FEDERAL elections for EVERYTHING they should be fined a dollar for EVERY OTHER VOTER in their electorates, NEVER be allowed to collect ANY form of unemployment, NEVER be allowed to later run for ANY gov't position (even private ones like anti-smoking wanktard groups using public dollars), and go to JAIL for an equal amount of days to votes in their electorate, for EVERY election they were too fucking lazy to participate in.

I say that as an ANTI conservative.

FUCK

THE

LAZY

ESPECIALLY

GEN Y

LAZY

FUCKTARDS.



refresh -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 2:47:46 AM)

So I see that abstaining can't be a political choice then?



HatesParisHilton -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 2:52:28 AM)

Sure, if you also ABSTAIN from every benefit you receive from tax dollars that your fellow VOTERS paid for.

BTW, can you abstain from TAXES?

Se, here in Oz, even people on UNemployement have to pay taxes.

If you pay taxes, you are not abstaining.

Period.

Full stop.



nelly33 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 9:05:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

It is absolutely critical that the vote be extended to all of voting age.  This is for two reasons:

1. The best government is when all participate.  Learn, discuss, and vote accordingly.  This is of course not fully realizable but should be a striven-for goal.

2. Who gets to decide who is worthy to vote?  I could easily come up with criteria which would appear unbiased but would be correlated with either GOP or Dem affiliation.



Point 2.  I was going to make the same point but I decided to read the whole post first.  If voting is a privilege, who decides who gets it?  That is a slippery slope, and the person who decides who gets to vote definitely gets their party in power.  Also, I'm assuming that all of you posting in the forum assume you would be one of the privileged to vote?  What if you had your RIGHT taken away?  Take it lightly I suppose?  What about this... what do we say when people in other countries aren't allowed to vote?  It's a dictatorship right?



Starbuck09 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 9:09:37 AM)

This thread isn't about who should have the right to vote Nelly. It is about what is necessary if anything to earn that vote, whether it should be a right or a privilege. I have consistently stressed that the vote should be available to all those who want it.



nelly33 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 9:15:38 AM)

I guess my point is then, who gets to decide what is necessary to earn a vote?  That, too, makes it biased.  I think for a truly free vote, it needs to be unconditional... my opinion anyway.



Starbuck09 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 9:19:58 AM)

It could be decided by a national referendum  so that everyone decides whether to keep things the same as they are now or for a slight change.



nelly33 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 9:30:47 AM)

by that majority rules logic, what if the majority decided that you had to be white to vote?  that could theoretically pass... then what?  because the majority decided, minorities are out of luck?  my point is the majority shouldn't be able to decide who gets the right to vote... to easily biased.



Starbuck09 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 9:37:51 AM)

Two points the Nelly one is that like all democracies the majority does rule and if that's what they wanted then no matter how distsefuo you and I then that is what they willl get, our BNP party is no different. Regardless of my personal views towards them if that is what the majority of the populace desire... Secondly what is put in a referendum does not have to be so contentious for example my own personal wish is to have a days community service as the price needed to have the power of a vote. If hthat wa put up in a referendum it would not be myself [or the government] dictating who could vote as the people are quite at liberty to decline the proposition.



philosophy -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 9:50:10 AM)

...i think the point you're missing is that whatever condition is put on the ability to vote, the very fact that a condition is there is open to abuse.
You've rightly noted that people died to make the vote open to all, anything that threatens that (including your proposal) dishonours their sacrifice.



nelly33 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 9:52:18 AM)

I see your point... but I counter with this... it is quite possible that most Americans would not want Muslim's to vote.  If that was put in a referendum, it is quite possible that it would pass.  Does that seem acceptable if the majority wanted it?

quote:

...i think the point you're missing is that whatever condition is put on the ability to vote, the very fact that a condition is there is open to abuse.
You've rightly noted that people died to make the vote open to all, anything that threatens that (including your proposal) dishonours their sacrifice.

This.



Starbuck09 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 9:58:20 AM)

 I disagree though philosophy I don't see why having an extra condition on voting would make the process anymore open to abuse than the conditions we place upon it now. I have a lot of time for democracy and I don't see why a referendum could not be held say at every general election to see if people still had faith in such an idea. If they decided it was no longer for them it could be discarded once more. The people who died to give us the vote , actually, I think, died to give us power over our own destiny to have the choice to do with our libert what we will. Our current situation is seeing democracy stagnate I think this is a way to reinvigorate our society without destroying it.




Starbuck09 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 10:01:02 AM)

 Nelly the point of a democracy is that one has to stand by majority rule regardless of our personal feelings. For example if a party was voted into power that believed in the extermination of all religions and races that they deemed unfit I would despair not because they were in power but at the fact that they were voted in. You can't control what the majority want you can influence it through education and propoganda e.t.c. but not control it.



nelly33 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 10:01:42 AM)

but the point is that the referendum is open to abuse... the majority would be able to completely suppress the voice of the minority.



Slavehandsome -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 10:04:36 AM)

Why don't we leave it to the government to decide for us. Like they do with driving or owning a gun. How about letting them decide which health care plan we go with, or how to invest our money? I'm reminded of the political cartoon at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeministDiscussion/photos/album/1395486848/pic/1672433268/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc Enjoy!



nelly33 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 10:24:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Nelly the point of a democracy is that one has to stand by majority rule regardless of our personal feelings. For example if a party was voted into power that believed in the extermination of all religions and races that they deemed unfit I would despair not because they were in power but at the fact that they were voted in. You can't control what the majority want you can influence it through education and propoganda e.t.c. but not control it.


those that were in minority might be inclined to despair because they were in power though...



Starbuck09 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 10:28:16 AM)

 Of course they would and rightly so Nelly . But take nazi Germany as an easy example if Germany had been populated by liberals Hitler would not have been voted into power. It's not the leaders that are a problem it's the people. The leaders are just the tip of the boil so to speak. So if you were to have a party voted in with such ideals you would be effectively dead as a democracy anyway.



Politesub53 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 12:11:26 PM)

Starbuck, at that time, the liberals would have voted for Stalin, look how he turned out.

I dont see how your idea of people having done one days community service, would ensure they voted for anyone better than the lot who are in office at present. Just because someone seems to be an upright citizen, history shows this isnt always how they act once in power.

What would you say if everyone who had the right to vote, by whatever criteria you decided, voted in the BNP ? That would make the privilige of voting as much use as a chocolate teacup.




KenDckey592 -> RE: Should voting be a right or a privilege? (6/25/2009 12:42:59 PM)

I believe that voting is a right enjoyed by all.   There should be controls placed upon it, to make sure it is fair and equitable to all, for example, some control must be used to determine eligibility such as citizenship, or maturity level, such as age.  I am not here to determine what those eligibilities should be.  

I personnaly chose not to vote when i was in the Military.   My district was in Texas.  I was in Africa, Europe, All over the world.   I had no clue what was going on locally.   And in the days before the internet it was almost impossible to stay current in areas where you only get mail every other week.   I chose not to vote because I wasn't able to make an educated vote.   Others chose to not vote for whatever reason.

Forcing the vote thru a legal requirement isn't fair.   The guy in Intensive care can't vote.   He can't get to his polling place.  Might not be able to even breathe without a machine.   How fair it is to force him into prison or some other form of punishment?   A person that just chose to not go to his/her polling place for whatever reason, is fine with me.   Just because they chose not to participate should not be a crime.   I have the right or believe whatever I want.  Doesn't mean that I am going to.   Just means I have the right to.   I have the ability to exercise that right nor not.   No one has the right to decide for me.



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