agirl
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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leadership527
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In this way of looking at things, I am an edge player in that I want to continually push the boundary of what can and cannot be changed. It is in this way that I strengthen our dynamic and our love affair. It is my sincere hope that it's a long time, hopefuly never, that I run out of new boundaries here. My thinking, possibly premature and naive, is that TPE is a journey, not a destination. It is that journey that powers our dynamic, not the destination. The day that she is "perfectly mine" is the day when no further growth is possible. Perfection kind of sucks in that regard.
So the things that Carol & I think of now as "core", I am certain that 2 years from now will not be. The boundary will have moved over those 2 years just like it did over the last two years. At some point though, some of those branches will never be movable.
As a related concept, I very much differentiate outward obedience from internal obedience. For instance, I could command Carol right now to do some things and she would obey. But the act of obedience would be outward only and likely result in significant harm to her as it setup a dissonance between her own internal wordlview and her urgent desire to obey. I see that outward obedience as trivial in comparison to the willingness and ability to actually change her worldview so that the same commands are no longer harmful. To me, those internal changes are the essence of real submission. From those changes, all manner of outward obedience flows naturally and smoothly.
I don't want Carol to ACT like my slave, I want her to BE my slave. Generically, we call that "red sheet stuff" -- stemming from a quote I showed her some time ago and happened to print out in a big red font. To me, outward obedience is just as I said, an act. I want the real deal. I see those inward changes as the most intrusive and therefor most difficult things to surrender.
Interesting post Jeff.
As I was reading it, I was pondering the fact that although I wouldn't use obedience as a gauge for that type of internal enslavement, I understand what you mean.
For us, that enslavement comes from the COMPLETE acceptance on my part that I am owned and am his and whether I obey ALL of the time, some of the time or most of the time .......I am still his. I think only in terms of being his. Accepting the consequences of NOT being an obedient person, despite being owned, is part of this.
One of your other posts on another thread mentioned that although you understand WHY Carol doesn't/wouldn't want to have sex etc with another man ...... in a way , you would quite like to know that she would...if you decreed it. (If I've got this wrong, please correct me). I can also understand that.
Doing what someone SAYS can be motivated by SO many things............but you KNOW when someone is doing it because they are *owned*, by YOU, and have the kind of internal acceptance of it.
You used the phrase* perfectly mine*...I AM perfectly his, I'm just not *perfect*. I don't have to have my nipples nailed to a board for M to know that, if he walked in with a board, nails and a hammer, I would lay my breasts on the board......despite crying, despite not wanting it , despite fear, ..he knows I'd do it. He also knows that it wouldn't alter or damage our relationship. I'm well aware of how that sounds when written..... and I really don't spend any time (not much, anyway) wondering whether he would actually DO that. The mindset is that it *isn't optional*.
You don't have to DO anything particularly extreme to someone you own, to recognise that you COULD do, if you wished it.
I see that outward obedience as trivial in comparison to the willingness and ability to actually change her worldview so that the same commands are no longer harmful. To me, those internal changes are the essence of real submission. From those changes, all manner of outward obedience flows naturally and smoothly.
I rarely try to describe or explain this........but I haven't changed MY worldview. I didn't change my willingness or my ability to. The very fact that we are who we are, and we share what we share has done that. HE has been as conducive to that as I have. Any internal changes in ME are a direct result of HIS effect ON me.
The ownership that M has, isn't dependant on whether I obey him or not at any given time. My acceptance that I have to, eventually, IS. My *outward obedience* can range from *reluctant* to *utterly devoted*... the part that matters is where my thoughts, feelings and motivations are.
agirl
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RE: Which is Harder? - 
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