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Taking the plunge - 6/26/2009 2:23:55 PM

allthatjaz

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Joined: 8/20/2008
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Its interesting listening to people talk of perceived wealth.

Both Stephen and I have been financially wealthy and we both agree that the money didn't outweigh the stress. Having all the norm to demonstrate that wealth, such as a big house, nice cars sitting in the driveway and at least a couple of good holidays a year and all the latest 'must have' gadgets. With that came all the stress of loans, mortgages, insurance and credit card bills etc and the obligation to work 50 hour weeks.
More recently we returned to our hippy roots. Almost a year ago we got rid of all our mortgages and started a much more humble existence. We made a conscious decision to get rid of all the useless materialistic things we owned. Once the decision was made to start a much simpler and uncomplicated existence we had to be able to reduce our possessions to what we could fit in our truck.
In the last year we have lived in a converted bunker, a North American Tepee and now onto our sailing boat whilst we restore her and make her sea worthy enough to sail the Atlantic. We are not sure where we are going, depends on which way the winds blowing.
To get this far we have learnt to live on an incredibly small budget and have discovered a new way of measuring our wealth.

Taking the plunge is something that seemed out of reach when we were both single but together we have made it possible.
What we have noticed is the amount of friends that have said they would love to be doing it as well but we do have other friends and family that think we are nuts to be leaving it all behind.

If you could take the plunge what would it be?
What would you miss or have to take with you? mine was an electric toothbrush

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Post #: 1

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/26/2009 2:30:16 PM

kuriouswitch

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umm, if I took the plunge it'd be leaving my job as a sales clerk and letting the wanderer in me out and just traveling. really the only three things I'd have to have would be my laptop, my cell phone and my camera. the rest wouldn't really matter. my laptop is where i store all my photos and do my research ect, my parents would kill me if i went without my cellphone, mom espeicially likes being able to call me and she's computer illiterate enough to not use skype. and my camera because that's a huge love of my life, photography and if i'm traveling i might as well capture all the great places i visit. two comfort things i'd need are my teddy bear and my travel blanket because i've had them for so long it'd be hard to not have them while i sleep. whatever else i have in my house i'd either ask my parents to hold on for me (family heirlooms ect) or sell or give away.

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 2

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/26/2009 2:53:06 PM

allthatjaz

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I think they are really good choices kuriousswitch. Admittedly we have taken with us a mobile and obviously (or I wouldn't be on here now) a laptop so that we can keep in touch with the outside world and omg yes, you have to have a camera.

Stephen felt the electric toothbrush was an unnecessary luxury because I could always use a manual one

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Post #: 3

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/26/2009 2:55:58 PM

Loki45

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Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
We are not sure where we are going, depends on which way the winds blowing.

Might I suggest avoiding the Caribbean and the shipping lanes near Somalia? I mean unless you're sailing in a heavy cruiser or aircraft carrier, that is.

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Post #: 4

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/26/2009 3:34:01 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
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I'm not sure why having wealth means you must demonstrate it? Perhaps it was that, and not the total on the monthly bank statement that caused all the stress.

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Post #: 5

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/26/2009 10:35:59 PM

DemonKia

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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Maria: I live in what I think of as 'hippie central' here in Northern Cali.

I climbed off that consumption-driven train in college, about a decade ago. I live on ~$9k a year, & (for me) quite luxuriantly at that . .. . . It gives me the freedom to follow my own creative muse . . . . . & it also gives me a security in knowing that I can support my lifestyle on virtually any job, or even a social security check, that I'm not X number of paychecks from disaster & / or huge lifestyle changes . . . . .

Des: I can't speak for Maria, but plenty of mid- & upper-level corporate jobs actually do require certain levels of consumption. There are literal expectations that those employees drive certain cars, live in certain neighborhoods, belong to this or that club . . .. . I learned about this when I was in college & researching possible career paths . . . . & it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to point out that dress is dictated by many, many employers . . . . .

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm not sure why having wealth means you must demonstrate it? Perhaps it was that, and not the total on the monthly bank statement that caused all the stress.

_____________________________

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(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 6

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/26/2009 10:41:40 PM

snappykappy

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demonkia what do u pay for rent and food per month and is that 9k after everything is paid for

also does anyone else pay for anything

just wondering

when i first got out of the military i was getting about 215 per month and paid 50 for rent and utilities were paid for and spent about 50 for food and i got by because there were three of us renting a place for 145 per month this was back in 74

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 7

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/26/2009 10:53:23 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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        I have lived on nothing, certainly without a cell phone, laptop, and camera. Yes, there were amazing moments of beauty, hitchhiking in the dawn, but as a general rule, it sucked.

     I like my house, and a car with room for my shoulders AND a/c. I like eating in restaurants, and weekend get-aways. Wealthy? No (maybe by third world standards). X number of checks from major change? Absolutely.

     Slumming is only a grand adventure when you can go back to being comfy anytime you get bored with it.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 8

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/26/2009 11:00:16 PM

DomKen

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Been broke, am now well off. Much prefer the present circumstance.

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Post #: 9

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/26/2009 11:15:32 PM

DemonKia

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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My mom passed away a few years ago & left me a tiny inheritance, which I converted to an annuity . . . . .

So, Snappy, that ~9k is my total annual income; my rent is 300 a month on a mobile-home I share with a couple of my adult offspring , so the 300 includes utilities . . .. My eldest owns the mobile, tho' I pay the lion's share of the operating expenses while he devotes himself to studying civil engineering -- he does construction stuff between semesters . . ...

I spend about 200 or 300 a month on groceries . . . . . & I feed the other son, who's studying computer stuff in college but doesn't have paid employment . . . . .

I got rid of the car in '96, & in the intervening 13 years I've only spent maybe 3 years worth of car costs on all the walking shoes, bicycles, roller-blades / skateboards (yep, I own 3 'boards, & I do use them for transport, lol), bus fare & passes, & my share of gas costs for the occasional trip in someone else's car. (Carefully note that I detest riding in cars & one of my personal goals in life is to stay out of cars for months at a time . . . . )

So my other expenses are pretty inconsequential . . .. .

& like those tens of millions of other Americans I have no medical coverage, but that's a whole other conversation. I merely note that if I lived in one of the 100+ other industrialized countries with some kind of universal coverage, that wouldn't be the problem that it is here . . . . .

By way of comparison, I coulda been an actuary, but the 100k a year starting salary didn't begin to make up for the 'evilness' of working for the insurance industry, much less all the crapola of those high-earning lifestyles . . .. . Being one of seven statistics majors on a campus with 10,000 plus students was quite eye-opening . . . . lol . . . . I'd never been wooed career-wise before that, it was nice, but nothing offered up beat the job track I'd been on since adolescence -- writer . . ....

Thanks for asking . . . . . .

(in reply to snappykappy)

Post #: 10

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/27/2009 12:43:48 AM

Vendaval

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Joined: 1/15/2005
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I completely agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Slumming is only a grand adventure when you can go back to being comfy anytime you get bored with it.

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 11

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/27/2009 1:39:31 AM

allthatjaz

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Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm not sure why having wealth means you must demonstrate it? Perhaps it was that, and not the total on the monthly bank statement that caused all the stress.

A few weeks ago I was traveling through a very rural part of England. Around me was miles of open, cultivated fields, poppies and other hedgerow flowers and acres of trees. We arrived in a small village and I was immediately struck by this fact.

Most houses have a presentation side and a back yard and every one on this street and had the presentation side facing the road. In this case they all turned their backs to the beautiful views so they could show their wealth to the people passing by.
People do subconsciously show off their wealth. People still paint the front of their houses and spend a fortune on front facing gardens that they never use other than to park the car, whilst leaving the back unpainted and the rear garden overgrown. Many people present what they have with materialistic imagery. I worked in Real Estate and was expected to have a flash car because it gave an impression of success to my customers.
I am not ashamed to put my hand up and say that I have been a part of that but it never brought me happiness, just a desire to be even better.

DemonKia knows what we are talking about. One of the cleverest ways the system controls us is to make us believe we need these things. The western world has a tendency to create desire and its very easy to get swallowed up in that. I am not saying ambition is not a good thing. I believe ambition is what drives us forward and motivates us to ever better ourselves but the down side of ambition is getting consumed in all its wanton shit and becoming a 'must have' person

TheHeretic, at no point have we slummed it! Far from it, we live in a very comfortable place but we chose what we have around us based on what we want so no TV but we do have a laptop, mobile phone and camera.

I will add that both Stephen and myself have had plenty of past experience within what would be considered 'not the norm' lifestyles. Steve spent times in his childhood living in communes around Europe with artistic hippy parents and I spent possibly the happiest years of my life living in a third world country with a community who's wealth was measured by how many goats they owned. Life was incredibly simple and community spirit was strong. this is not something I have witnessed since re-entering my very civilized world.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 6/27/2009 1:40:51 AM >

_____________________________

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Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 12

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/27/2009 6:21:26 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm not sure why having wealth means you must demonstrate it? Perhaps it was that, and not the total on the monthly bank statement that caused all the stress.

A few weeks ago I was traveling through a very rural part of England. Around me was miles of open, cultivated fields, poppies and other hedgerow flowers and acres of trees. We arrived in a small village and I was immediately struck by this fact.

Most houses have a presentation side and a back yard and every one on this street and had the presentation side facing the road. In this case they all turned their backs to the beautiful views so they could show their wealth to the people passing by.
People do subconsciously show off their wealth. People still paint the front of their houses and spend a fortune on front facing gardens that they never use other than to park the car, whilst leaving the back unpainted and the rear garden overgrown. Many people present what they have with materialistic imagery. I worked in Real Estate and was expected to have a flash car because it gave an impression of success to my customers.
I am not ashamed to put my hand up and say that I have been a part of that but it never brought me happiness, just a desire to be even better.

DemonKia knows what we are talking about. One of the cleverest ways the system controls us is to make us believe we need these things. The western world has a tendency to create desire and its very easy to get swallowed up in that. I am not saying ambition is not a good thing. I believe ambition is what drives us forward and motivates us to ever better ourselves but the down side of ambition is getting consumed in all its wanton shit and becoming a 'must have' person

TheHeretic, at no point have we slummed it! Far from it, we live in a very comfortable place but we chose what we have around us based on what we want so no TV but we do have a laptop, mobile phone and camera.

I will add that both Stephen and myself have had plenty of past experience within what would be considered 'not the norm' lifestyles. Steve spent times in his childhood living in communes around Europe with artistic hippy parents and I spent possibly the happiest years of my life living in a third world country with a community who's wealth was measured by how many goats they owned. Life was incredibly simple and community spirit was strong. this is not something I have witnessed since re-entering my very civilized world.

Yes, the economy depends on people buying things. If everyone stopped we would have a true depression equal to that of the '30s. With that said, if people feel they must live a certain way then that is their choosing to fall in line.

I come from a family with money. We buy what we want and not what we're told to buy. We choose what to spend it on. My car is ten years old and probably has another ten in it. I live in jeans and tees. I dress up appropriately for such occasions as require dressing up. Yesterday was spent canning jam. Today is being devoted to digging up the driveway and installing drainage pipes. Hardly a lifestyle of decadence.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 13

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/27/2009 6:53:44 AM

olena

Posts: 97
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm not sure why having wealth means you must demonstrate it? Perhaps it was that, and not the total on the monthly bank statement that caused all the stress.

I liked this as well and many other of the responses as well.

I think the OP phrased it “perceived wealth” which was actually making oneself poor with the debt and as DesFIP that was where the stress was.

I grew up poor and seemingly always hungry. I will take the security and pleasures that having some money in the bank can lead to. I personally do not buy that money creates unhappiness but people pursuing a wealthy lifestyle and thinking that is success or failure and thinking it is an inherent right or they just deserve it often does.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 14

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/27/2009 6:56:55 AM

Rainfire

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I won't give up my Sonicare toothbrush without a massive fight. I used to have major problems with my teeth until I started using that thing.... I'm even trying to get Lumus to use one.

I choose a lifestyle of simplicity when possible, it helps me physically, emotionally and financially. Where I have to battle myself is that I'm a tech-geek, I want the latest electronic toy and I want it NOW, pleaseandthankyou. I likes me toys and that also includes kitchen gadgets. The difference is that I use the kitchen ones and play with the electronic ones. In Idaho, I used to grow a lot of my own vegetables and can/preserve/freeze as much of our food as I could. My garden was 35'x65' or 70, depending on how ambitious I was feeling that year. And I always had a corn patch in the backyard on top of the main garden. I'd go to "U-pick" fruit places and pick my own fruit, grapes, cherries, berries, you name it, then preserve them one way or another.

Since I don't work outside the home, I dress simply and casually. I don't wear a lot of jewelry though I do have a fine appreciation for it. (I used to wear a ton of it btu gave it up a few years back.) I buy deals when I can and Lumus appreciates that. We keep in budget and a tight rein on things. For us, this means that except for monthly rent and a few utilities like phone and internet, we also happen to live debt-free. We pay cash for everything, if we can't pay cash, that means we can't afford it.

But that's just the way we live.... simply.

_____________________________

"I have sold my soul to the devil for You, will You still love me when I am soiled, stained and souless in my love for You?
Or is this the beginning of the end?"
Proud member of the Clan Scarlett O'Hair

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 15

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/27/2009 7:11:28 AM

Starbuck09

Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
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Allthatjaz money is freedom in my opinion. If one was a billionaire then you would have the freedom to do whatever you liked, visit any country, see the earth from space, the list is endless. Of course if generating money becomes the end in itself then you can have problems. If you are happy living as you are then that is absolutely fine no one is ''nuts'' for being genuinely happy. Having said that though Jaz I would also say that all the people living materialistic lives [as you see it] could be as perfectly happy the fact that you were not does not change that, people are different. I would also have slightly more respect for the ''system'' now you live a life free from material constraints I reccomend travelling to a country that no longer has the benefits of a working system it is not pleasant and might make you change your position if only slighty. If you are happy then more power to the pair of you that's brilliant.
I'd also leave you with the warning not to be so blase about the Atlantic you mention that you are hippies, fair enough, but remember that the natural world is not a pleasant place on the whole and that ocean is one of the most savage forces on the plannet, it is capable of destroying you in the blink of an eye and it needs [not deserves] but needs our utmost respect at all times particuarly in a small boat don't go off and and let the winds alone decide your fate.

(in reply to olena)

Post #: 16

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/27/2009 8:09:11 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

Our plan is to reverse Master's grandparents' plunge.

All four of them came over from Italy & Sicily in the early 1900's (with just a few suitcases and a couple of wee ones) to a different country and a different way of life than they were used to across the Atlantic.

The grandfather He was named after didn't obtain his naturalization papers until AFTER His father was born here. To Italy, that makes Master one of them, so we are in the process of obtaining the official paperwork.
Although raised by His Sicilian grandmother, Master was purposely NOT taught Italian...He plans to learn His mother tongue.
We are looking at living in the countryside...something Master has never done.

We'll take the pups, the Bernina...a relative or two...but the plants will have to stay.

this slave will miss her native California, the garden, the wonderful friends she knows & loves and of course...contributing to the bustling economy of Humboldt, Trinity and Mendocino Counties.

Congratulations to you both and best wishes on your Fantastic Voyage!!! Let us know when you plan on pulling into either Long Beach Harbor or any Santa Monica Bay piers!!!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 6/27/2009 8:10:54 AM >

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 17

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/27/2009 8:23:29 AM

Rainfire

Posts: 4047
Joined: 1/5/2009
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*drools*

Bernina, eh, beth? GOOD taste!!!! And the wine too! (But think of all the great wines you'll be able to have there in Italy...)

_____________________________

"I have sold my soul to the devil for You, will You still love me when I am soiled, stained and souless in my love for You?
Or is this the beginning of the end?"
Proud member of the Clan Scarlett O'Hair

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 18

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/27/2009 9:13:18 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Allthatjaz money is freedom in my opinion. If one was a billionaire then you would have the freedom to do whatever you liked, visit any country, see the earth from space, the list is endless. Of course if generating money becomes the end in itself then you can have problems. If you are happy living as you are then that is absolutely fine no one is ''nuts'' for being genuinely happy. Having said that though Jaz I would also say that all the people living materialistic lives [as you see it] could be as perfectly happy the fact that you were not does not change that, people are different. I would also have slightly more respect for the ''system'' now you live a life free from material constraints I reccomend travelling to a country that no longer has the benefits of a working system it is not pleasant and might make you change your position if only slighty. If you are happy then more power to the pair of you that's brilliant.
I'd also leave you with the warning not to be so blase about the Atlantic you mention that you are hippies, fair enough, but remember that the natural world is not a pleasant place on the whole and that ocean is one of the most savage forces on the plannet, it is capable of destroying you in the blink of an eye and it needs [not deserves] but needs our utmost respect at all times particuarly in a small boat don't go off and and let the winds alone decide your fate.

We have both had a lot of experience with countries that don't have a working system.
Two points about your Atlantic comment.
First of all statistically my life is more at risk driving a couple of miles into town than it is crossing any ocean in a well prepared yacht (who said anything about it being small?)
Secondly my partner who is a marine engineer and has had over 30 years of ocean sailing experience and is a qualified yacht master, understands absolutely the risks we are taking.
I will add to that, that the Atlantic, like any other ocean is relatively harmless as long as you are there at the right time of year and know what your doing. We will be avoiding the entire south Atlantic and south Pacific bordering the south pole.
While we appreciate your concerns but when we said 'we will go where the wind takes us' its a metaphor.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 6/27/2009 9:15:38 AM >

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos

Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to Starbuck09)

Post #: 19

RE: Taking the plunge - 6/27/2009 9:23:03 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Our plan is to reverse Master's grandparents' plunge.

All four of them came over from Italy & Sicily in the early 1900's (with just a few suitcases and a couple of wee ones) to a different country and a different way of life than they were used to across the Atlantic.

The grandfather He was named after didn't obtain his naturalization papers until AFTER His father was born here. To Italy, that makes Master one of them, so we are in the process of obtaining the official paperwork.
Although raised by His Sicilian grandmother, Master was purposely NOT taught Italian...He plans to learn His mother tongue.
We are looking at living in the countryside...something Master has never done.

We'll take the pups, the Bernina...a relative or two...but the plants will have to stay.

this slave will miss her native California, the garden, the wonderful friends she knows & loves and of course...contributing to the bustling economy of Humboldt, Trinity and Mendocino Counties.

Congratulations to you both and best wishes on your Fantastic Voyage!!! Let us know when you plan on pulling into either Long Beach Harbor or any Santa Monica Bay piers!!!

We certainly will though its going to take us some time.
We are planning a possible winter in Italy though I don't think we will get round as far as Trieste...(lots of good memories for me) because that darn leg of hers is such a nuisance when your sailing!

Oh and by the way Beth, we think what your both doing is a brave thing indeed. The massive upheaval takes a lot of nerve but having met you both, we saw in you the same sort of enthusiasm to reach out and grasp the unknown.
Steve and me always say 'this is not a dress rehearsal'

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 6/27/2009 9:36:04 AM >

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos

Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 20

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