How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (Full Version)

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Sanity -> How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 9:53:43 AM)

quote:

EPA May Have Suppressed Report Skeptical Of Global Warming

The Environmental Protection Agency may have suppressed an internal report that was skeptical of claims about global warming, including whether carbon dioxide must be strictly regulated by the federal government, according to a series of newly disclosed e-mail messages.

Less than two weeks before the agency formally submitted its pro-regulation recommendation to the White House, an EPA center director quashed a 98-page report that warned against making hasty "decisions based on a scientific hypothesis that does not appear to explain most of the available data."

The EPA official, Al McGartland, said in an e-mail message to a staff researcher on March 17: "The administrator and the administration has decided to move forward... and your comments do not help the legal or policy case for this decision."

The e-mail correspondence raises questions about political interference in what was supposed to be a independent review process inside a federal agency -- and echoes criticisms of the EPA under the Bush administration, which was accused of suppressing a pro-climate change document.

Alan Carlin, the primary author of the 98-page EPA report, told CBSNews.com in a telephone interview on Friday that his boss, McGartland, was being pressured himself. "It was his view that he either lost his job or he got me working on something else," Carlin said. "That was obviously coming from higher levels."


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OrionTheWolf -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 10:39:28 AM)

Wonder if there will be any kind of investigation into this?



Sanity -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 11:20:11 AM)


With Pelosi and Reid in charge of Congress?

While there's still a CIA to be dismantled?

You're being sarcastic, right?


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Wonder if there will be any kind of investigation into this?



kittinSol -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 11:24:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
While there's still a CIA to be dismantled?


One can only dream [8|] .



DomKen -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 11:34:55 AM)

I wonder if Alan Carlin, staff economist at EPA, had the expertise to evaluate what hypothesis explained what data? Furthermore the staff economists comments on a report of actual global warming science isn't science but commentary.



MrRodgers -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 8:46:17 PM)

Well the dems are fast learners. Soon they could even be repubs. This kind of shit I am afraid is just another episode of a very bi-partisan affair.

What bothers me now is that there is ever-increasing evidence that global warming is occurring as demonstrated in consistently higher mean water levels but also...that Saturn is also getting warmer, Mars is getting warmer, they are all fucking getting warmer and all because guess what...the fucking sun is getting much warmer.

Here

Here we have all of this science and there is little reason to wed ourselves to any one single cause...human activity. In addition, there is much less research going into the warming of the solar system as a result. Can't see what vested interest there is in staying with human only additions to CO2.



DomKen -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 9:10:42 PM)

There's been a lot of research on solar forcing of the climate. Solar cycles do not correspond in period or magnitude to the observed global warming. The claims about the warming of Mars was shown to be not quite so as well.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11642-climate-myths-mars-and-pluto-are-warming-too.html



TheHeretic -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 10:11:12 PM)

     Interesting link, Ken.  All it says is that we don't know why other planets are showing signs of climate change, and that we can't immediately blame it on the sun.  Gotta be those SUV's after all, huh?

    It's happening on Jupiter as well...
http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2008/23/image/a/




DomKen -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 11:31:32 PM)

Actually what the link says is we aren't sure if Mars is warming. And of course there are many other reputable sources saying that even if the martian climate is changing it is unlikely to be related to solar activity.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Climate-Change-on-Mars.html


As to Jupiter's warming it's not and even if it was it wouldn't be related to solar cycles.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-on-jupiter.htm




Racquelle -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 11:41:51 PM)

What puzzles me is why any of the average folk feel the need to rally behind the claim that global-warming doesn't exist.  What do you hope to gain?  It won't keep your taxes lower. 

Meanwhile, scientific researchers of all disciplines, from all over the world will continue to document trends and recommend changes.  And whether the average joe 'agrees' is entirely irrelevant.  The science will still happen.



MstrPBK -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/28/2009 11:52:03 PM)

quote:

What puzzles me is why any of the average folk feel the need to rally behind the claim that global-warming doesn't exist. What do you hope to gain? It won't keep your taxes lower.


These average folk probably don't understand cause and effect; nor are they willing to see the effects there of.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/29/2009 5:34:24 AM)

What puzzles me is why a department of this administration committed fraud by omitting a report just because they did not like it. Isn't that the same principle being broken, of creating intelligence for a specific purpose?

I see no change of substance going on.



Sanity -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/29/2009 6:02:04 AM)


The global warming cap and tax fraud is all about drastically raising taxes on energy, but only in the developed world - not in China, not in India, etc.

Gas, oil, coal, and electric power and everything that they are used for will cost more, but only for us here in the West.

And the poorest will feel the pinch much harder than the rest of us will, which is always the case when prices go up.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

What puzzles me is why any of the average folk feel the need to rally behind the claim that global-warming doesn't exist.  What do you hope to gain?  It won't keep your taxes lower. 

Meanwhile, scientific researchers of all disciplines, from all over the world will continue to document trends and recommend changes.  And whether the average joe 'agrees' is entirely irrelevant.  The science will still happen.




Louve00 -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/29/2009 6:08:54 AM)

This topic was touched on on another forum I read.  NASA released information claiming that global warming is not neccessarily a man-made problem.  Two links from NASA:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2008/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2265321/posts

(my disclaimer is I am not blaming the POTUS, or his administration, for these findings)



rulemylife -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/29/2009 6:42:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The global warming cap and tax fraud is all about drastically raising taxes on energy, but only in the developed world - not in China, not in India, etc.

Gas, oil, coal, and electric power and everything that they are used for will cost more, but only for us here in the West.


So your argument then is that if other nations are allowed to pollute we should be too?



Sanity -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/29/2009 7:03:19 AM)


The essential argument is that CO2 isn't a pollutant.

A secondary argument is that the Global Warming religion is a fraud. The Reverend Al Gore is a false prophet (similar to Jim and Tammy Faye Baker) who is getting filthy rich off of the hype while living a totally hypocritical lifestyle.

A third argument is that punishing capitalist countries for their success seems to be the main goal of the far left Global Warming church. Ever ask yourself why the far, far leftists are the most fanatical members of this new religion?






rulemylife -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/29/2009 7:35:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The essential argument is that CO2 isn't a pollutant.



Created in excess it is.



Louve00 -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/29/2009 7:54:24 AM)

LOL.  Sanity, I just learned something from you.  I never knew they were calling Global Warming a religion, but they are.  Just the fact that they are calling it a religion casts a whole other light on it.  Al Gores claims were not based on science as much as belief and faith that this was happening.  Trying to figure out why this is happening is all well and good, but maybe we should have been truly listening (and not just to Al Gore, but to all the other claims that have pointed to CO2 as the culprit), and not just taking this all for granted (as I have been too, til recently). 

I googled something (with the advent of learning of this new religion *smirk*) and came up with a link that suggests the things going wrong with our world arent at all from global warming, but from global cooling:  http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2009/06/15/will-widespread-global-cooling-reports-freeze-al-gore-media-credibilit

I am getting a bit confused by it all, now.  And Sanity...I blame you! j/k lol



DomKen -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/29/2009 8:05:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

This topic was touched on on another forum I read.  NASA released information claiming that global warming is not neccessarily a man-made problem.  Two links from NASA:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2008/

Did you read the freeper link and not bother reading this link?

From the NASA report: (GHG = Green House Gases)
quote:

Summary: The Southern Oscillation and increasing GHGs continue to be, respectively, the dominant factors affecting interannual and decadal temperature change.



Louve00 -> RE: How The Obama Administration Elevates Science (6/29/2009 8:42:41 AM)

Yes, I did read those links.  And posted those graphs in that link that do show a warming pattern.  I posted them to show that there was already conflicting evidence from NASA against what the EPA might have tried to cover up.  And we (I) can't forget a show I saw where scientists have set up cameras that, over a 6 month period of time, show the degree of melting (how fast and how vast) the melting on the poles (both poles) exist.  I read them, and I've read more.  But, as I thought of it, I realized it wasn't the final determination of CO2 as the culprit.  Thats the assumption.  I am not convinced it is the fact.  I am pasting this paragraph from this link:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas : "Although heteronuclear diatomics such as carbon monoxide (CO) or hydrogen chloride (HCl) absorb IR, these molecules are short-lived in the atmosphere owing to their reactivity and solubility. As a consequence they do not contribute significantly to the greenhouse effect and are not often included when discussing greenhouse gases."
 
That is something I never even questioned til Sanity posted his claim to Global Warming being a religion.  As I said (and meant it lol).  Its confusing me and making me wonder about what the real causes may be.  I am also not discarding that pollution that emits higher than normal levels of CO2 aren't directly affecting certain areas of our nation, if not our nation as a whole, and am not sure how higher levels of CO2 would equate to more violent weather and the like.  Again, I am still thinking on this.  I still think we need to be less dependant on oil, coal, etc.  Oil especially, since we only can produce a small amount that we are now dependant on...which keeps us dependant on OPEC.  I'm not at all against a greener America and a greener world.  But I am not ready to blame it on CO2, at this point.

(I guess the global warming vs global cooling was just fodder?)



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