RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal

RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (Full Version)

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RCdc -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 1:23:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie What first hand experience? Yours from your short visit to the UK or someone like mine who has lived here all my life. Yes there are sex shops in most of the cities. I could take you to mine in Birmingham that is in the main shopping area and has open displays of items in the store window. Or we could go to the latex store that has manequins dressed in latex including masks etc in the window. Just my first hand experience. I would love to go see it, because in London, unless its something fairly 'high class' like Coco de Mer - and even that is 'conservative - or something like Ann Summers - you won't see items other than a little bit of sexy underwear, or fluffy handcuffs on show - with a smattering of cheap latex. Dildos, sex toys, and discipline items are always 'back room'. Even Ann Summers has a 'seperates' section, and in London, sex shops and video store window are 'filled' in with a solid colour. I have never seen somewhere as basic as Harmony have an open window policy and the main Ann Summers stores toy collection is down stair. We are planning a Birmingham trip in the near future to visit some friends, so we'd love to visit the store and see how different it is compared to London and Soho stores. the.dark.

LadyEllen -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 1:28:44 PM)
Possession (including by download) of an "extreme image" is what is prohibited. To fall foul, the image must have been made for the purpose of sexual arousal (ie it must be porn) and An “extreme image” is an image of any of the following – a) an act which threatens or appears to threaten a person’s life, b) an act which results in or appears to result (or be likely to result) in serious injury to a person’s anus, breasts or genitals, c) an act which involves or appears to involve sexual interference with a human corpse, d) a person performing or appearing to perform an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal, where (in each case) any such act, person or animal depicted in the image is or appears to be real. In this, (a) and (b) could possibly affect bdsm images, but extremely dependent on interpretation of the situation in most instances - ie how far one might reasonably interpret an image. For the purposes of (b) the injury must be at least correspondent with the requirement for Grievous Bodily Harm, which is a level of injury where hospitalisation and/or lasting damage is caused. (a) and (b) do not belong to the real world of bdsm - however images of these natures are most certainly found since porn often deals with fantasy situations that serve to "inspire" their audiences - which is to say that just because someone has such images it by no means indicates that they would indulge in such actions in reality. That is not the point though, it is possession of these images which is an offence. The ad that was running on CM of the girl tied and drowning would constitute an extreme image for these purposes (part (a)), and most of us must have inevitably downloaded that and already be criminally liable. E

susie -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 1:29:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Read my comments closer; I spoke of specifics and access options being eliminated. I would love to hear your references, points, and examples to the contrary. I know the people I was with, one a former BDSM club proprietor, would be happy to learn of some corner of the UK where she wouldn't face arrest under the current political environment. Personally, I would love for you to provide factual reference providing that the current policies in the UK have made access to BDSM 'porn' and/or equipment easier to access and more open for purchase. There are 'sex shops' in every city, but buying a latex mask is about as 'exotic' as buying ice cube trays that mold water into penis forms. Or have they also been outlawed or come with a disclaimer "for entertain purposes only"? Please enlighten me how the OP's concern is only propaganda. And please for our next trip, provide locations relative to your first hand experience with BDSM clubs, especially those permitting nudity, or better yet sex. How about a few leather stores that have single tails displayed for sale. They sell latex masks here at costume shops, leather harnesses and belts at 'Goth' stores. For those that don't practice the 'Stand & Model' version of S&M, there was nothing to buy. I never expected to come back from Amsterdam and London unable to find a 'toy'. My surprise was learning that the proprietors of the shops were afraid to offer it for sale. I think you are misinformed in thinking that BDSM club owners are being prosecuted in the UK. There are many clubs that are still open and running as they have been for a number of years. I also did not say that purchasing BDSM porn or equipment was easier. In fact I see no change in this over the last few years. Certainly the places we purchase items from have made no changes whatsoever. Of course you will know better from your short visit here.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 2:14:12 PM)
quote: think you are misinformed in thinking that BDSM club owners are being prosecuted in the UK. There are many clubs that are still open and running as they have been for a number of years. Then it would be a simple matter of naming them. Glad to do some preemptive reciprocation. When in the USA in LA, go to Lair de Sade. In Vegas - The Green Door. Feel free to drop our names. No issues - Have fun! Stay out of 'Passive Arts near the LA airport unless you're only into 'Stand & Model'. They serve alcohol, but no nudity. In SF - the Citadel is great, but be careful about breaking the sound barrier with your single tail. Feel free to check them out if your ever in town. There's a 'party' going on every weekend, and some weeknights. I could name a bunch more in NYC, however I hesitate to do so since it's been years since I've been to party. Where did we miss with similar access in London or the UK in general? quote: I also did not say that purchasing BDSM porn or equipment was easier. In fact I see no change in this over the last few years. Certainly the places we purchase items from have made no changes whatsoever. Of course you will know better from your short visit here. Unless you can provide a exception I'm afraid I'll have to go by what we, and our local, experienced, excellent, handsome, informed, tour guides and chaperons experienced. (Who will, unless they want to expose themselves, remain nameless.) No change? Wow - I think they'll be surprised to hear that. As will the OP who, I guess, is paranoid and has nothing to worry about concerning access or government scrutiny. There is no problem I guess. I'm sorry that my experiences did not reflect the reality of ease of access to BDSM activities or the apparent openness that you enjoy. I have to say I am surprised that the people we were with were so obviously misinformed and out of touch with the freedom and access you represent you enjoy within the BDSM community. Then again - we weren't in Birmingham. However, when you provide the names and locations, we'll be sure to get there next time. - THANKS!

KaineD -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 2:25:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth I'll ask you directly - do you support the pragmatic result of closing BDSM clubs and limiting access as a consequence of the current law on the books in the UK? Whether it was the intend or not - it is the result. Which leads to the ultimate question I asked and you still have not answered; why do you find it appropriate for a government, any government liberal or conservative, to make laws that restrict access to what you want to do with your own body? The decision and the personal consequence of that decision, should be excluded from government intervention. I absolutely do not support the closing of BDSM clubs. I don't supprt any government that intervenes in what consenting and sane adults do with each other.

RCdc -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 3:37:57 PM)
This is Darcy I was informed somone mentioned 'handsome'. Without doubt I knew my ears were burning for a reason. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Unless you can provide a exception I'm afraid I'll have to go by what we, and our local, experienced, excellent, handsome, informed, tour guides and chaperons experienced. (Who will, unless they want to expose themselves, remain nameless.) Hmmm. I resemble that remark.[:D] Although, we are leaving the public exposing for Folsom!

Mercnbeth -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 3:43:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark This is Darcy I was informed somone mentioned 'handsome'. Without doubt I knew my ears were burning for a reason. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Unless you can provide a exception I'm afraid I'll have to go by what we, and our local, experienced, excellent, handsome, informed, tour guides and chaperons experienced. (Who will, unless they want to expose themselves, remain nameless.) Hmmm. I resemble that remark.[:D] Although, we are leaving the public exposing for Folsom! We hope both yours and the .the dark's ears were burning. Can't wait to see you again! We miss you! Looking forward to exposing you to all the access that Folsom provides. We're almost recovered from the trip....ALMOST!

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 4:30:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wankerforuse To look at bdsm material,photos or videos on the computer via the internet.Is it legal or am i breaking the law by looking at the above mentioned material. Do i face arrest and possibly going to jail for continuing to look at stuff that i am hooked on (Yes).and not only that but by living on my own,surely i can't be hurting anyone (That is somewhat questionable). And it is my only way to sexually releive myself (Well then, you may want to consider the possible repercussions of this chosen life of crime).I can't see that im really doing any harm at all really (Ohhhhhhh....lemme tell you sumpin bud....I see you peering over the precipice of this ongoing dillusion that encapsulates so many of us....run now....leave while you can.....I was once like you....my time is past....run....please....protect yourself....listen to your inner voice!!!!!),but if anyone can please kindly let me know what is legal and what is'nt over here in the uk i really would appreciate it very much indeed (I'm here for you bud).Thanks to everyone who replies to this post my very best wishes to you all from Paul.

couldbemage -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 5:57:09 PM)
I've only been to 1 LA event that didn't have alcohol, but so far every one had nudity. ...but I won't call out names, since I'm aware it's illegal. I'm even under the impression that even with nipple tape, what happens at fetish clubs is still illegal. ...though toerated. And libertarian is so far from baseline conservative that it's nearly liberal. I like much of the libertarian ideals.... but any earnest libertarian must be evil or naïve. ...and just to avoid words being put in my mouth; I'm a fiscal socialist and libertarian in every other way.

JonnieBoy -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 8:05:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie I think you are misinformed in thinking that BDSM club owners are being prosecuted in the UK. There are many clubs that are still open and running as they have been for a number of years. I also did not say that purchasing BDSM porn or equipment was easier. In fact I see no change in this over the last few years. Certainly the places we purchase items from have made no changes whatsoever. Of course you will know better from your short visit here. I would agree with you susie, but have less first hand knowlege of London specifically than some posters here it would seem, I do, however, have some knowlege of London and the opinion that it can be a very paranoid place, my view is that if, as has been stated, there is a degree of nervousness being exibited THERE, it is symptomatic to THERE and don't see much difference elsewhere. But ... I thought this was a thread about internet "ecucational " material for a chaps "research" purposes ? [;)] Pirate

susie -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/29/2009 11:26:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy I would agree with you susie, but have less first hand knowlege of London specifically than some posters here it would seem, I do, however, have some knowlege of London and the opinion that it can be a very paranoid place, my view is that if, as has been stated, there is a degree of nervousness being exibited THERE, it is symptomatic to THERE and don't see much difference elsewhere. But ... I thought this was a thread about internet "ecucational " material for a chaps "research" purposes ? [;)] Pirate True the thread was actually started regarding our new possession of "violent pornographic" material law which has nothing at all to do with bdsm clubs etc. What I do find amusing is that the comments about our liberal or not attitude to sex / bdsm should come from those resident in a country that almost went into melt down over the sight of Janet Jackson's bare breast on TV.

JonnieBoy -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/30/2009 12:34:00 AM)
I was fortunate enough to have not seen that [;)], the very thought of Janet Jackson thinking I might find anything (including her tits) exciting about her is enough to make my hair stand on end ! (or stand on "virtual " end as the case may be [8D]) But yes ... the local "cornershop" front covers on display for all to see in almost all towns (including parts of Greater London) and most villages in the uk would be proof enough that the victorian era has passed and I wonder (based partly on my experience in the USA) how many yank store owners would have similar top shelf displays? (truckstops excepted ... they're the same wherever you go) On the subject of "porn" (educational research matter if you want to label your folder ... [sm=evil.gif])on the internet though (the topic of the thread) BDSM stuff especially (sure you're not surprised there), there's simply not enough ... [sm=evil.gif] ! More seriously, I don't give a shit what this new "law" SAYS, It's what it DOES that matters. It will not have an effect on my life and that's that. It is aimed at sick sinister snuff and kiddie porn "defectives". As far as what you can and can't buy easily in the UK in terms of kink parephernalia, the only thing that I have knowlege of to have become a problem is handcuffs and legirons and thats because of the KEYS. Some barmy bastard used a key he owned to get police cuffs off and kill two LEO's ...... In the USA ...... which means their cheap but effective "toys" can't be got now as a private purchase...... because they come with ...... KEYS ! Oh yes ... the best part of the joke ... errr ... (sorry) "story" is that the KEYS are the WRONG SIZE to get UK police cuffs open. Don't ya just Luuuuuurve the impact of US culture on the UK sometimes ? Pirate

RCdc -> RE: Looking at bdsm material on the pc what with some many new laws here in the uk is it legal (6/30/2009 1:22:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie What I do find amusing is that the comments about our liberal or not attitude to sex / bdsm should come from those resident in a country that almost went into melt down over the sight of Janet Jackson's bare breast on TV. Last time I looked, I was sitting on my bottom in front of a lap top in my front room in sunny Essex. That's hardly across the pond. Susie, I was being genuine - give me the name of the store you mentioned and we will go take a look. I am not intentionally trying to be a pain in the ass, but its rare(I wont say impossible) to find a store that happily exhibits porn, toys and other paraphinallia that isn't cheap ann summers knock offs or fluffy hand cuffs catering to the hen night brigade. Unlike Jonnie (waves) mentioned, it isn't just a paranoid London thing. I have lived in Cornwall, Devon and still have regular links there as well as Notts and Leeds, and the same thing happens through out. Soho isn't the groovy place it was 10 years ago either, with stores closed and replaced with fruit and veg markets because it's hard work opening a store and maintaining it within the restrictions of local councils - same as clubs and bars - if it's difficult for public houses to survive due to legislation and having them close at a terrible rate, why wouldn't it be hard for other establishments? Not that that is a bad thing. The internet is a far easier medium for this kind of thing and you are more likely to get good, quality stuff from an artist who makes these items than the tacky and cheap imports that fill the shelves of sex shops in general. No wonder their windows tend to be filled in - they are probably embarressed by the quality.[;)] If badly made PVC that you are lucky to get wear out one night without tearing of is your thing, there are stores all over the country that deals with that - lordy even Primark has it. But if you want to get and legally own a beautiful knife or single tail for play - or carry it with you to your partners house, or buy and watch porn off the net, purchase or have a physical copy, then the best advice is not as someone said - as long as its not snuff or the like - your safe - thats the crappiest advice you can give anyone because it's not been tested properly as yet. Even doing something as groovy as public fireplay makes a club owner have to consider fire safety regulations. As an artist, I am well aware of what I have to go through to stick within the law - even when drawing and not taking photographs. You only have to see what happened to Max Mosely to see just how out of control anything can go. That's not paranoia - that's being aware of the risk your taking in the first place. If it all seems like scare tactics to people, it's all cool. But last time I looked, I don't believe that naievity was a good defense in a court of law. the.dark.

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