RE: master/slave (Full Version)

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Elegant -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 6:48:53 PM)

quote:

So what is the precise moment in time that it stops being a role?


When you decide to seek something besides temporary role play situations.



Oh, and you are being a pot.



Elegant -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 6:51:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

That is not ownership. That is borrowing.


So the only kind of ownership you recognize is ownership that is intended for life? You do not recognize that someone can own something for a short period of time, with the intention of owning it for a short period of time???

Kind of a narrow (and quite uncommon) definition of ownership, no?

Taggard


Ownership of a human?..Yes.

One can own a car for life or for a few months. But a car is not a human being and cannot say 'hey, I'll be your slave'.




Elegant -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 6:55:03 PM)

And with that I leave you to your own opinions of which I do not share.

You are getting a bit snippy, huffy and on a high horse (owned horse?) and that brings any hope for a mature discussion to an end.




KnightofMists -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 6:59:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos


quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314


Then why would you consider taking a slave? A tad premature?


Emphatically agrees.


So what makes one ready? How much homework needs to be done before one should even consider taking a slave?

Taggard


when you don't need to consider it anymore... It becomes a desire to do it! Then you try to do it well!



amayos -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:01:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty


The Master does not make the slave. The slave is made in the womb and on the playground, long before the Master is even in the picture.


I suspect now you are an expert in genetics or Lenin? I understand basically what you're saying, but to say one has a "slave gene" is stretching it a bit. Very Brave New Worldish, though.



quote:



No, to get a wife one goes by traditional, culturally accepted folkways and religious tradition.





And you described one of the most traditional. Show a woman you are leader and she is follower and she will follow you home, heart and mind at your disposal.



An the problem here is... ???





quote:



quote:

I imagine what I speak of sounds quite foreign to you. You have the common notion of consensual slavery wrapped up in dominance topped off with optional floggings.




quote:

Completely incorrect. Trust me, I'm an expert on what I think. :D





Then it is at communicating what you think that you are inexpert.


Do we really need to dissolve into Ad Hominem? I beleive I express myself quite clearly.



quote:

Ownership and control go hand in hand. Dominance (dominion/sway/authority) is inherent in this dynamic, however you dissect it.





quote:

Silent partners have ownership but no control.


As in not sharing in the actual work of a firm?
Partners in anything usually means less or partial control, anyway.


quote:

Minority stockholders have ownership, but no control.


It simply means they own less than half the shares in a corporation. But really, where is this going? Comparing a Master and slave to...stocks? Even if these points about control / non-control were valid in example, I do not see how they compare to the subject at hand.


Bottom line is: If you do not control it, what you 'possess' is not fully yours. Thus, you do not fully own it. And that's all I'm saying on the matter.


quote:

I could go on, but I hope you see my point. Ownership is not something made up by the BDSM world. It has a real objective meaning and can't be twisted about to suit some romantic fantasy.



Taggard



I certainly see your point. Though it's funny, in another thread I've been accused (I suppose more accurately) of being non-romantic.



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:04:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

quote:

So what is the precise moment in time that it stops being a role?


When you decide to seek something besides temporary role play situations.



And yet I am sure you would not accept it were I to say that although my relationships are temporary, they are no more role play than yours, would you?

Taggard



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:08:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant
Ownership of a human?..Yes.

One can own a car for life or for a few months. But a car is not a human being and cannot say 'hey, I'll be your slave'.



And how does that make any difference what-so-ever?

You may not know (or understand) but when you dismiss my concept of ownership (which is the same for cars, and cats, and people) you dismiss my kink. My kink is ownership. I do not wish to own the same person for any length of time. I wish to own many over shorter periods of time. It does not make my ownership of them any less than your Master's ownership of you. I find it as insulting as you would if someone were to tell you that your Master doesn't really own you, as slavery is illegal in this country.

Taggard



KnightofMists -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:12:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

quote:

I have very casual Master/slave relationships, lasting for as little as 5 hours (to as long as six months). They are rewarding, intense, and, all in all, quite delightful.


One can play the role for 30 minutes, an hour, a few days..but that is all you are doing: playing a role.

To be in a Master/slave relationship you need to live as such and that precludes short-term role playing.

You can call it what you want...but there is a HUGE difference in a 5 hour playtime and a 5 year committed ownership.


I agree.... casual M/s Relationship is akin to Roleplay! It is so easy to know that in 5 years you will trade your car in. First year this car is your baby.. 2-3 years it's your dependable mode of transportation, 4-5 years you starting to consider what is the next car you going to have. well, I don't take a slave to use her and then trade up for another model. Alandra been with me for over 15 years, kyra is only a short time at a year... but my commitment is a lifetime.... In a lifetime, I will let you know if I was successful, with both.



KnightofMists -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:14:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty


I have very casual Master/slave relationships, lasting for as little as 5 hours (to as long as six months). They are rewarding, intense, and, all in all, quite delightful.


what you call casual M/s relationships.... I call RolePlay.



KnightofMists -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:16:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

quote:

Nope...I am talking about Master/slave relationships. I am talking about a slave signing away their rights as a human. I am talking about a Master taking full responsibility and possession of another human being. Yet doing so for a limited time, and with no intention of maintaining possession in any long term fashion.


That is not ownership. That is borrowing.


is it borrowing? or is it a Lease arrangement with the possible option to buy



KnightofMists -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:19:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty


So what is the precise moment in time that it stops being a role? Does it have to be 5 years? Is 1 year long enough? Does 6 months count? BTW, who left you in charge of deciding how long someone has to do something before it stops being a role?



It's a life long commitment. When both make that choice... then the roleplay stops and the work begins! So easy to walk away if one is only there for 6 months... but when you responsibility is a lifelong commitment... well that is another thing all together.



KnightofMists -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:27:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

quote:

So what is the precise moment in time that it stops being a role?


When you decide to seek something besides temporary role play situations.



And yet I am sure you would not accept it were I to say that although my relationships are temporary, they are no more role play than yours, would you?

Taggard



some would call that a fear of commitment.... others would say you haven't found what you want... still others would say your enjoying life at the moment. Either way... you will never understand what a Life long commitment of M/s relationship can give you. If you never even attempted this type of relationship... you will never understand the distinctions. Between Life long Commitment M/s Relationship with the Temporary M/s Relationship. The two are vastly different. As different as being Online as compared to Face to Face. Both are real to the people involved.... but they are not comparable.




KnightofMists -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:41:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty


And how does that make any difference what-so-ever?


human beings think, feelings and have the power of choice well beyond a car or cat! Your car doesn't leave you if you fail in your responsiblities... you car just breakdown and you get another one. There is no obligation to a car and very little to a pet... but there is great obligations to a human being.

quote:


You may not know (or understand) but when you dismiss my concept of ownership (which is the same for cars, and cats, and people) you dismiss my kink. My kink is ownership. I do not wish to own the same person for any length of time. I wish to own many over shorter periods of time. It does not make my ownership of them any less than your Master's ownership of you. I find it as insulting as you would if someone were to tell you that your Master doesn't really own you, as slavery is illegal in this country.

Taggard


your concept of ownership is a lease arrangement! So it's your kink... good for you. But those that have lifetime ownership of a slave... can appreciate the difference between a lease arrangement and a lifetime commitment. Becuase everyone of us start as a lease arrangement formal or informally. We court we assess... we discover and then we commitment.... for a lifetime!



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:45:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
Very Brave New Worldish, though.


I prefer to think of it as more Origin of the Speciesish. I do think there is quite a bit of nurture involved in the making of a slave, however.


quote:


An the problem here is... ???


That we were talking about slaves and not wives. I said that your method seemed like a good one to attract a wife, and not a slave. Are you now agreeing with me?

quote:


Do we really need to dissolve into Ad Hominem? I beleive I express myself quite clearly.


Then let me say that it is perhaps I who is inexpert at understanding. From what I have understood from your replies, you have an understanding of slavery that is most common. It is a slavery of the heart and mind, and involves dominance. If you have other definitons of slavery, they have not been apparent, to my understanding, in your writing.


quote:


Comparing a Master and slave to...stocks? Even if these points about control / non-control were valid in example, I do not see how they compare to the subject at hand.


That, I think, is the exact point you miss. My kink is to own a person as I own a stock. My kink is to have one definition of ownership (though ownership is quite a complex idea, even as understood in the dictionary sense) and apply that definition to all of my possessions, including my slaves.

quote:


Bottom line is: If you do not control it, what you 'possess' is not fully yours. Thus, you do not fully own it. And that's all I'm saying on the matter.


So when you loan your car out to a close friend, as soon as it is no longer in your control, it is no longer your possession?

Taggard



amayos -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:53:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

So when you loan your car out to a close friend, as soon as it is no longer in your control, it is no longer your possession?

Taggard


These car analogies must end!



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 7:56:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

what you call casual M/s relationships.... I call RolePlay.



And I call what you do "RolePlay" as well. You play at the role of Master just as I do. Your play last a long time, while mine is temporary. Not much difference other than that, though I am sure it pleases you to think there is.

Taggard



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 8:02:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

These car analogies must end!


And just why is that? I often think of my slaves much in the way I think of my car. I love them both in a very similar way. I take care of them, depend on them, and trade them in when I am done with them.

*smile*

Taggard



amayos -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 8:17:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty


quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

These car analogies must end!


And just why is that? I often think of my slaves much in the way I think of my car. I love them both in a very similar way. I take care of them, depend on them, and trade them in when I am done with them.

*smile*

Taggard


Nothing wrong with that at all.



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 8:21:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Nothing wrong with that at all.


Then why must they end???

Taggard



amayos -> RE: master/slave (2/16/2006 8:28:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Nothing wrong with that at all.


Then why must they end???

Taggard


Degenerative engineering. :D



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