RE: Boxing... (Full Version)

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Proprietrix -> RE: Boxing... (4/24/2006 4:51:47 PM)

oo, ooo, oooo I gotta get in on this thread!  [:D]

I can't speak to boxing. Don't have much for it.
Loved Fight Club! (Both the book and the movie!)
There was a thread on wrestling, but that's too "wallowy" for me. Entangled bodies aren't my cup of tea.
I like flogging, and canes, and paddles, and all that jazz....

But I LOVE to sometimes find a hard-core masochist and just kick the ever loving shit out of them!

Some of my absolute best sessions/scenes have been kicking, punching, and spitting. Absolute animalistic primal fighting.

All the leather and latex and PVC and catsuits and thigh-high heeled boots.....
Screw that garbage.
Give me a pair of cammies, a T-shirt, and good supportive bra, and I'm ready for the best play time!

Some Dommes get geared up when they smell leather.
I get geared up when I hold a belt.
I am so into kicking.
Kick, kick, kick, kick, kick
I just can't say enough good things about this.
It gets me all wound up just thinking about it. 



slavejali -> RE: Boxing... (4/24/2006 5:17:04 PM)

When Master and I spar I really feel his masculinity, we dont box but practice martial arts. I agree with TallDarkandWitty masculinity can really be expressed and felt in primal stuff like physical fighting. In play I really love that feeling that anytime he may choose he can take me, overpower me..I love the intense interaction that invokes between masculinity and femininity. Like mental play is all good too...but.....when it comes down to base primal stuff, physicality takes the cake and really does increase the level of intimacy on a really raw exposed level.



Kedikat -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 1:14:38 AM)

This sort of thing reminds Me of the saying, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
It is often the folly of specialists, to try and catergorize and analyse the world within the bounds of their specialty. With often twisted results.
Why not consider the multi million dollar lifestyles of top boxers from an economists view?
Or the basic, strongest passing on the sperm.
Maybe more obviously, people with few options, combining physical skill and rage, to find some form of success.
Of course all things are interconnected. But some connections are very tenuous and not worth too much inspection.




IronBear -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 3:14:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

This sort of thing reminds Me of the saying, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
It is often the folly of specialists, to try and catergorize and analyse the world within the bounds of their specialty. With often twisted results.
Why not consider the multi million dollar lifestyles of top boxers from an economists view?
Or the basic, strongest passing on the sperm.
Maybe more obviously, people with few options, combining physical skill and rage, to find some form of success.
Of course all things are interconnected. But some connections are very tenuous and not worth too much inspection.




If you are going down that track, why not include professional Martial Artists? Some do more than make a living and are infact wealthy from their skills and teaching ability. They are not in the public eye because their skills and the Martial Arts arena have never grabbed the same amount of popularity as boxing.  yet in both cases few indeed reach thetop of the ladder and make the large incomes, In both camps many do infact make a living from their shills even after they are no longer compeating but as trainers etc.. Not evey one of them are:
quote:

people with few options, combining physical skill and rage, to find some form of succes

but have excelent educations and are able to earn a quid quite well in other areas.



DrSteveB -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 10:51:45 AM)

On the one hand I completely understand the fear and real danger of wrestling or boxing becoming just physical abuse.  On the other hand, I find it amusing in the alt world where  struggling and physically overpowering is commonplace, that wrestling would seem odd.  It is the same thing... at least to me.



UtopianRanger -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 1:23:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

This sort of thing reminds Me of the saying, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
It is often the folly of specialists, to try and catergorize and analyse the world within the bounds of their specialty. With often twisted results.
Why not consider the multi million dollar lifestyles of top boxers from an economists view?
Or the basic, strongest passing on the sperm.
Maybe more obviously, people with few options, combining physical skill and rage, to find some form of success.
Of course all things are interconnected. But some connections are very tenuous and not worth too much inspection.


HA!  You paint with an extremely broad brush, brother. You obviously don't understand the sport {or any sport for that matter} at all.

Its all about the battle and the challenge /competition. It's the same thing with extreme kayakers. I've have friends who've paddled unbelievable rivers in Canada/Alaska, where if you miss a roll attempt or your spray skirt implodes{and you swim}there's at least an eighty percent probability rate that you'll drown. Same thing with climbing Everest and K2 without oxygen. Why do more and more keep doing this every single year? It's the battle/ultimate challenge, that's why.

And you think boxing is archaic? I'll tell ya what....how intuitive are you? I'll send you a vhs tape of the Whitaker / Julio Cesar Chavez fight. You watch Whitaker, study him, and look into his eyes, then come back and tell me you think he's stupid. *Wink*



 - R




MsMacComb -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 2:15:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
HA!  You paint with an extremely broad brush, brother. You obviously don't understand the sport {or any sport for that matter} at all.
Its all about the battle and the challenge /competition. It's the same thing with extreme kayakers. I've have friends who've paddled unbelievable rivers in Canada/Alaska, where if you miss a roll attempt or your spray skirt implodes{and you swim}there's at least an eighty percent probability rate that you'll drown. Same thing with climbing Everest and K2 without oxygen. Why do more and more keep doing this every single year? It's the battle/ultimate challenge, that's why.
- R
 

From what I know there are two "types" of boxing. One is the sport that could use better padded gloves, padded helmets shorter rounds and shorter bouts with technical expertise and technique being the focal point.
The other is the Mike Tyson etc version where the prefight talk is about rattling someones brain stem around inside their skull till they are knocked out, unconscious maybe dead and then eating the fingers of their children (after an appetizer of half ear ala carte).
There is danger in any sport and in everyday life. Most sports objective is not to pummel the opponent. Still, man (males) are a bit violent and brutal and while they should have their "sports" must the most vicious be rewarded? Olympic boxing and wrestling is sport to many. Pro-boxing ( Tyson style etc) and Ultimate Fighting is not as much sport as it is just barbaric and doesnt really reflect a civil society does it? Lastly, I always find it amusing (hypocritical and disgusting) that many on the far right that see a little spanking fetish as "violent and horrid, illegal and a sin" thrill at blood at the more violent matches.



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 2:30:20 PM)

For what its worth, I'm a boxing fan and see no relation to S and M.



colosubseeking -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 3:11:41 PM)

While i've never boxed, i have been practicing martial arts in one form or another for about 6 years... (karate and tae kwan do, mostly), and i am looking to start Brazilian Ju-Jitsu soon with the hopes of possibly doing some amatuer UFC style fighting.

While the sparring i've done is generally less... painful, than boxing, becuase of the extra padding and safety precatuions taken, i think it is very similar in nature. There is definetly something primal about it. But the "pain and humilation" does perhaps, help reach that primal core. People have been fighting since the day we crawled out of the primordial ooze, and one on one combat excites those primal urges that are deeply ingrained in the human pysche. While i'm not sure if it helped me becomre more intimate, it definetly helped me to know myself better, and i think i'm a stronger person because of it.



colosubseeking -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 3:22:52 PM)

MsMacComb: i don't think there is anything barbaric about boxing or the UFC (oh, and just FYI, the style of fighting in the UFC is usually referred to as mixed martial arts, or MMA). The UFC is definetly a little more intense than your average boxing match, but it in fact has a much safer record than boxing. The rules are designed to be as close to an actual "fight" as possible, while puting the combatants at minimal risk for injury or death. In addition, the referees can stop a fight at any point if they deem it unsafe to continue.

Yes, you're more likely to see blood during a UFC fight, but unlike in boxing, when someone goes down from a punch, that's it. As any fighter or fan can tell you, it is very rare for someone to get injured from one blow. People get injured when they take a hit, get dazed, and get back up and are unable to defend themselves properly. 

Not to mention the sheer technique that a good MMA fighter must have. Not only do they have to be able to box, they must also have good wrestling and joint manipulation skills in order to be competitive. They also have to have very good conditioning, as the rounds are five minutes long. Not many sports require an athlete to be able to go at 100% for five minutes.



Proprietrix -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 3:42:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb
Pro-boxing ( Tyson style etc) and Ultimate Fighting is not as much sport as it is just barbaric and doesnt really reflect a civil society does it?


sport: Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
UFC definitely falls under the category of sport.
My son will be old enough for local UFC training and eliminations next summer. He's absolutely psyched about it since he's been competing in several similar (un)sports, like wrestling, since age 6. It's really fun watching him move to each new level.
Of course, it could just be that I'm a barbaric and uncivilized parent, taking such joy in his happiness.
[8D]



colosubseeking -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 10:38:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb
Pro-boxing ( Tyson style etc) and Ultimate Fighting is not as much sport as it is just barbaric and doesnt really reflect a civil society does it?


sport: Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
UFC definitely falls under the category of sport.
My son will be old enough for local UFC training and eliminations next summer. He's absolutely psyched about it since he's been competing in several similar (un)sports, like wrestling, since age 6. It's really fun watching him move to each new level.
Of course, it could just be that I'm a barbaric and uncivilized parent, taking such joy in his happiness.
[8D]


Perhpas someday Your son and i will meet in the ring....[sm=trident.gif]



MsMacComb -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 10:40:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix
sport: Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
UFC definitely falls under the category of sport.
My son will be old enough for local UFC training and eliminations next summer. He's absolutely psyched about it since he's been competing in several similar (un)sports, like wrestling, since age 6. It's really fun watching him move to each new level.
Of course, it could just be that I'm a barbaric and uncivilized parent, taking such joy in his happiness.
[8D]
 

Well isnt that great, and I must say I am not at all surprised. I'm sure that you as the adult are fully prepared *should* he be injured brain/damaged and need medical care for life. Or no, wait, probably I will have to pay for it unless you are a multi millionare which I seriously doubt, so it would be dumped on society or elevate everyones insurance.  Maybe we should just go one step further and have sword fights, duels, death matches between animals and humans. Nothing like the evolution of "sport" right? Hey anything to make sure he's "happy".



colosubseeking -> RE: Boxing... (4/25/2006 11:40:44 PM)

Just so you know, NO ONE has been killed in the history of the UFC, while boxers die every year. And there have been no reported cases of brain damage in the UFC either. The reason for this is simple: bare knuckles or light gloves are actually LESS likely to cause brain damage than boxing gloves. This is because boxing gloves actually act only to shield the knuckles, contrary to popular belief. Boxing gloves will deliver the full force of multiple punches without any real consequence to the punch thrower, while it is possible to break fingers and knuckles with lighter gloves, if one is not careful.

This a link to a great article i found that might shed some more light on the subject for those who know next to nothing about it, except what they see on CNN, although it is somewhat outdated, very little has changed about the UFC in the last 7 years.

http://www.slate.com/id/46344



MsMacComb -> RE: Boxing... (4/26/2006 12:10:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colosubseeking

Just so you know, NO ONE has been killed in the history of the UFC, while boxers die every year. And there have been no reported cases of brain damage in the UFC either. The reason for this is simple: bare knuckles or light gloves are actually LESS likely to cause brain damage than boxing gloves. This is because boxing gloves actually act only to shield the knuckles, contrary to popular belief. Boxing gloves will deliver the full force of multiple punches without any real consequence to the punch thrower, while it is possible to break fingers and knuckles with lighter gloves, if one is not careful.
 

I appreciate your input and your earlier messages as well. However, I am not a novice within this area. I've studied Tang Soo Do for almost 12 years (in case someone doesnt know its Korean like Tae Kwon Do, and yea, I've heard all the "Tang" jokes), and have cross trained with a few other styles. "Old school" martial arts is about strength, flexibility, conditioning, inner peace, confidence, self defense and so forth and not about aggression, being macho, or what have you. The tournaments and seminars I've attended are about weapons, sparring matches and yes there are some that do full contact. But the rules and protective gear are far superior than anything in UF.
The fact that no one may have died thus far means little really. Boxers dont die everyday in matches but it does happen and as UF has only been around a few years its inevitable that it will. Boxers have no more strength than martial artists and a kick has more power than a punch due to legs being stronger than arms.
Your comment about bare knuckles versus gloves being less dangerous is utter nonesense. Its not the knuckles or glove that may injure someone but the force behind it. Whoever told you this is either very confused or lying. A rubber bullet that hits certain body areas can be fatal as is a regular bullet. Thats like saying in a car wreck that hitting the steering wheel is "safer" than an air bag. Does the air bag protect the steering wheel (your example of a glove protecting the hands but not the head) and not the driver? Its not the the glove/knuckles that causes brain trauma, but the power and force behind it. If the brain stem/cerebral cortex is "bounced" or rattled around inside someones head in a certain way it can cause damage and death. Don't believe me or whomever else you get your info from, ask a doctor. There is a reason most in the medical profession would like to see this "sport" and similiar ones banned. They understand the short term and the long term dangers. I can see if someone does this that may make millions and then retire early. But 99.99% aren't going to make anything and have as good of a chance as winning the lottery or getting into the NFL. Thats a heavy risk and toll to pay later in life just for a "hobby". Anyhow, I appreciate your efforts to "enlighten" me. [:)]



colosubseeking -> RE: Boxing... (4/26/2006 12:26:20 AM)

To the OP: i'm sorry for thread hijacking, and i promise if MsMacComb and i still feel a need to debate after this, we'll take it to PM's.

Now: as far as the light vs. heavy gloves debate goes, the logic is this. Brain damage in boxing is most often caused by repeated trauma within a short timeframe. If the brain is allowed to heal inbetween minor injuries, the risk of permanent damage is much lower. In boxing, a person is repeatedly hit with the full force of a punch, whereas in MMA fighting, it is very rare for an opponent to be hit in the head with full force repeatedly for a few reasons. First, many fights end up being more akin to wrestling matches. Once a fight gets to the ground, most punches are thrown as distractions to try to gain a more advantageous position for a jointlock or choke. Second, if a fighter does get hit full on, small gloves tend to produce more cuts then their larger cousins because the force is focused on a smaller area, and referees will stop a fight in the UFC if a cut is bad enogh. (If you don't belive this, think about hitting a balloon with the end of a bat versus poking it with a needle.) Third, in the UFC if a fighter is knocked down by a blow, the fight ends there. There is no standing count where the fighter will try to continue fighting while already injured from the blow that knocked them down.

Edited to add: There have been an average of 12 deaths a year in boxing since 1920. The UFC has been in operation since 1993, and has not had a single death, whereas somewhere around 150 boxers have died since the inception of the UFC.



Kedikat -> RE: Boxing... (4/26/2006 12:51:06 AM)

The point I was trying to make was that BDSM is not always a part of things that bare some semblance to certain aspects of it.
I cited only a few optional instances, even though I knew people would think, I only considered what I actually wrote, and pounce on Me for what I lacked writing.
But consider that forum posting is not My life. So I won't write a novel for every reply.
In a way, some of the retorts to My post, illustrate My point. Taking a few items I said, to mean all that I think about a particular thing.
Some specialized on a certain point or two and missed the basic point.
I too enjoy martial arts. For various reasons.
Too often the nitpicking, erodes the actual point of the postings.



MsMacComb -> RE: Boxing... (4/26/2006 12:51:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colosubseeking
  

Its your life and your choice colosub. The stats you are mentioning are provided from sources that could be bias to be sure. Someone that dies or suffers damage weeks or months after a match (of any sort) isn't going to be included, especially not if that info is coming from an organization that promotes it. (As in tobacco companies denying cigs are bad for you)
You are a very young guy. Every scrape, bump, sprain, contusion, concussion that you acquire now at this point in your life is going to come back and haunt you when you are 40 (or 30 or even 25). The world is full of youngish to middle aged guys that limp around with bad knees and bad backs from high school football. Half of them are affected in their jobs and careers by this (mostly blue collar) and that can reduce their earning potential for life. I can assure you that half or more of them in retrospect wish they had joined the chess club or studied more and never even tried out for the team. There have been numerous print and televised reports of late about cheerleading and of course gymnastics and others as well that have grown more intense and most responsible adults want limits put on the more risky events/moves and the amount of training allowed. 
Your body is a vehicle that contains all your hopes, dreams, ambitions and desires. Take care of it and it will hopefully provide for you the chance to achieve all that.
Why not take up something much safer like being spanked, as the human bottom has ample padding and besides, its more fun. [:)]



Kedikat -> RE: Boxing... (4/26/2006 1:02:14 AM)

 So you think people who do such things are primitive?
I can fasten on just a portion of a post as well.
:)
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

For me it's a primal desire, especially as i can't compete any more.. I love watching boxing and especially kick boxing and I'll drop everything to watch traditional Martial Arts contests. I'm still hooked on combat....



IronBear -> RE: Boxing... (4/26/2006 3:15:08 AM)

No not primitive but when competing in any combat sport either as an amateuror professional and working within their primal drives. You'll notice I keep primal and primative seperate. In this mix I'll at the various medieval groups including the SCA and metal weapons groups who indulge i medieval combat... Goddess knows how many times i've gone home with helts and bruisesfrom ratan weapons and when sparing with rookies with metal weapons (usually a 10lb broard sword or 13 lb bastard sword) I've ended up with bleeding knuckles even though I have been wearing stainless steel cray tailed gauntlets.... Goes with the territory.. I cany justify why so0me of us are hooked on combat and/or combat sports certainly when competing in aread like the SCA, I want to "Kill" my opponent but I dont want to hurt or injurs him for he has to be able to return to work to pay for his hobby/slort/thing... I do know that most service personal who did mote than ywo tours in Nam (for example) were hooked on the adrenaline rusj of waking in the morning and not knowu=ing if you would live through the day and the rerst of the experience.... Like it, hate it or fear it, when you are there in the zone you know you are alive.. Nothing later will ever make you feel this way.... Professional fighters have commented something similar, and I felt it too when I've fought kehjitsu kumalite and knew the odds of willing or even surviving.... Perhaps no one needs justify these things for other than those who have experienced the rush, the exhilaration, the being one with life, it can't be properly understood.... I may not be primitave but I am a barbarian and will follow or use primal drives if it is my will to do so..... 



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