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Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 10:37:27 AM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline 		   Ok,
I know people have been talking about God, Jesus and other beliefs etc. Not much on satan,
but I was wondering why do you believe in
what will happen to you when you leave this planet?
 
One person on here once told me he was going in the ground as fertilizer.
I asked him how he got here in the first place
and his response was an organism?
 
Not sure what that meant, but am curious your what feelings are.
 
Always, Ant~
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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 10:42:32 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I am guessing he meant/said orgasm, not organism.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 11:12:31 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I am guessing he meant/said orgasm, not organism.

the.dark.

Hehe.


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I know they're all insane
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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 11:13:38 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Status: offline 		"Remember, man, that thou are dust, and unto dust thou shalt return."

DC


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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 11:51:48 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Belief and hope are interchangeable in your context. What could be more depressing then an uncaring universe and oblivion? If that is the case then what is the use in our basic tenets? Love...honesty...self-sacrifice…charity…all that is good about us would be for not. All our good deeds would be for nothing on the universal scale. Our existence would be but a flicker of time… meaningless.

The alternative is a chance of another existence after physical death and a judgment for our deeds on earth. Even if not true it is something to hope for as an alternative to nothingness.

Now in reality the truth means nothing because those that believe and those that don’t will meet the same fate like it or not. So how you feel as you live makes the difference. I would rather believe in God than oblivion. That means as I approach death I will be no less fearful but can look forward to the possibility of another existence of soul. Those non-believers however will face the same fear but will have nothing but cold dark oblivion to comfort them.

Butch


_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 11:55:08 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		In most cases we determine our own fate by the choices we make in our everyday lives.

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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 12:18:11 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

Love...honesty...self-sacrifice…charity…all that is good about us would be for not.


See, this makes absolutely no sense. All of the things you mention above are just good, common-sense ways to promote survival of the human race and make one's individual life more pleasant and fulfilling.

* An individual with even a -spark- of common sense could figure out that loving someone feels -good-, and makes one's own life happier, with no Heaven, or God, involved.

*Any reasonably intelligent, self-respecting individual would be able to figure out, even without some church to tell hir so, that being honest is easier than trying to remember a bunch of lies and eliminates those awkward moments where one is caught in a deceit.

*Altruism (including supposed "self-sacrifice" and charity) is like masochism. It's something we do, not because it is easy, but because we get -off- on the pain. We don't care if GOD notices that we recycle and spend Saturdays serving food at the local soup kitchen... we care that we can rub in our neighbor's face that WE recycle more than THEY do, and we care if the hot little volunteer number at the end of the food-service counter notices that we've showed up EVERY Saturday, and wonder if we can catch hir alone for a chat before the end of the shift.

I disagree that these things would go away if there wasn't a religion, faith, hope, or all that malarky to try to force-feed us how to think... and doing something worthwhile is -never- "for naught". If nothing else, there is the satisfaction of knowing that one did something worthwhile, exceptional, extraordinary, or beyond expectations.

I have no belief in an afterlife, and do not ascribe to the concept of an active, interested, or even -aware- external divinity, and yet I participate in the local foods movement and food banks, provide free pastoral care and counseling, participate in any number of activist activities, and donate to the Human Rights Fund and NORML. The idea that people would stop doing good things if there wasn't a threat hanging over their heads or a promise of some payoff in the afterlife just doesn't hold water for me.

DC




_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 12:50:48 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Belief and hope are interchangeable in your context. What could be more depressing then an uncaring universe and oblivion? If that is the case then what is the use in our basic tenets? Love...honesty...self-sacrifice…charity…all that is good about us would be for not. All our good deeds would be for nothing on the universal scale. Our existence would be but a flicker of time… meaningless.

The alternative is a chance of another existence after physical death and a judgment for our deeds on earth. Even if not true it is something to hope for as an alternative to nothingness.

Now in reality the truth means nothing because those that believe and those that don’t will meet the same fate like it or not. So how you feel as you live makes the difference. I would rather believe in God than oblivion. That means as I approach death I will be no less fearful but can look forward to the possibility of another existence of soul. Those non-believers however will face the same fear but will have nothing but cold dark oblivion to comfort them.

Butch


This is one of the more logically acceptable and tenable views of holding belief in the metaphysical. The entire point of the existence of such belief systems is specifically to motivate humanity when the species is still evolving in the infancy of having developed self-reflective sentience (which means we're cursed with being able to imagine more for ourselves than we actually have...and consequently developing a distress about that very state of reality).

As a parting note, however, for some people the open acceptance and awareness of the nihilistic reality of the universe is just as potent a solace as they near their deathbed. The fact that there is nothing else for us to ascend to after this can be just as potent a motivator to make the most of it while it is there...and, for some people, that trumps the negative emotional trauma of having to succumb to accepting the futility of it all.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/8/2009 12:58:30 PM >

_____________________________

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I know they're all insane
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I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 12:52:44 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		I haven't the slightest idea what, if anything, happens after death. As far as I know there is no verifiable case of anybody returning from the dead, so there is no way of anybody knowing. I am sure that many on here have very firm convictions about what awaits them after death, but all that is just wishful thinking, nobody knows, and the only way to find out is to die, which we all will do eventually, so why worry about it, you will find out anon.


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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 12:56:39 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

The idea that people would stop doing good things if there wasn't a threat hanging over their heads or a promise of some payoff in the afterlife just doesn't hold water for me.

Agreed. Although I think he was more alluding to the fact that there is no such thing as permanent/eternal value in an ephemeral life; the fact that it is emotionally unacceptable that everything that I (general "I") find beautiful in the world and in my life will cease to be and, even more disconcerting, that the perceiver, appraiser and arbiter of that beauty (me) will cease to exist.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/8/2009 1:13:44 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 2:29:28 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

Love...honesty...self-sacrifice…charity…all that is good about us would be for not.


See, this makes absolutely no sense. All of the things you mention above are just good, common-sense ways to promote survival of the human race and make one's individual life more pleasant and fulfilling.

* An individual with even a -spark- of common sense could figure out that loving someone feels -good-, and makes one's own life happier, with no Heaven, or God, involved.

*Any reasonably intelligent, self-respecting individual would be able to figure out, even without some church to tell hir so, that being honest is easier than trying to remember a bunch of lies and eliminates those awkward moments where one is caught in a deceit.

*Altruism (including supposed "self-sacrifice" and charity) is like masochism. It's something we do, not because it is easy, but because we get -off- on the pain. We don't care if GOD notices that we recycle and spend Saturdays serving food at the local soup kitchen... we care that we can rub in our neighbor's face that WE recycle more than THEY do, and we care if the hot little volunteer number at the end of the food-service counter notices that we've showed up EVERY Saturday, and wonder if we can catch hir alone for a chat before the end of the shift.

I disagree that these things would go away if there wasn't a religion, faith, hope, or all that malarky to try to force-feed us how to think... and doing something worthwhile is -never- "for naught". If nothing else, there is the satisfaction of knowing that one did something worthwhile, exceptional, extraordinary, or beyond expectations.

I have no belief in an afterlife, and do not ascribe to the concept of an active, interested, or even -aware- external divinity, and yet I participate in the local foods movement and food banks, provide free pastoral care and counseling, participate in any number of activist activities, and donate to the Human Rights Fund and NORML. The idea that people would stop doing good things if there wasn't a threat hanging over their heads or a promise of some payoff in the afterlife just doesn't hold water for me.

DC



DC you are putting way too much into my answer... The op was asking why I believe in what will happen when I leave this life. It was not a defense of religion...or trying to make you a believer... read my third paragraph in my original post again...slowly...and I think you will understand I am not debating religion but answering his question.

Butch

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 2:43:58 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		What you say would be true if we were to constantly be contemplating our demise...do you? I think most people don't until they are forced to by age or illness.

Are we as a race still in our infancy? Who knows...we may be around for billions of years or gone tomorrow. I wonder... will we a 1000 years from now still be debating religion...and still claim it is just a response to sentience in our infancy? Or maybe we will realize it is more a deep part of our being...a necessary part...Love to be around to see...perhaps I will from heaven...or hell... while others are blinded by the darkness of oblivion.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 3:01:25 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Belief and hope are interchangeable in your context. What could be more depressing then an uncaring universe and oblivion? If that is the case then what is the use in our basic tenets? Love...honesty...self-sacrifice…charity…all that is good about us would be for not. All our good deeds would be for nothing on the universal scale. Our existence would be but a flicker of time… meaningless.

The alternative is a chance of another existence after physical death and a judgment for our deeds on earth. Even if not true it is something to hope for as an alternative to nothingness.

Now in reality the truth means nothing because those that believe and those that don’t will meet the same fate like it or not. So how you feel as you live makes the difference. I would rather believe in God than oblivion. That means as I approach death I will be no less fearful but can look forward to the possibility of another existence of soul. Those non-believers however will face the same fear but will have nothing but cold dark oblivion to comfort them.

Butch



Your argument is the exact reason why I'm skeptical of the whole concept of a deity.

What's the old saying?  If God didn't exist we would have to invent him.

And when I first started to question what I had grown up with, it was a terrifying thought that there is nothing more.  But if you think about it, when you die, and that turns out to be it, you won't know the difference anyway.  If you die and there's a beautiful life on a cloud somewhere then break out the party hats and champagne.

But I'm not not going to live my life on the basis of what may very well be a fairytale.







< Message edited by rulemylife -- 7/8/2009 3:12:19 PM >

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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 3:10:11 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I haven't the slightest idea what, if anything, happens after death. As far as I know there is no verifiable case of anybody returning from the dead, so there is no way of anybody knowing.



You haven't watched John Edward.

He has a direct connection to the spirit world.

But Verizon charges additional fees for that.






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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 3:16:53 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

   Ok,
I know people have been talking about God, Jesus and other beliefs etc. Not much on satan,
but I was wondering why do you believe in
what will happen to you when you leave this planet?
 


I don't think there will be a conscious Marie after I die; I don't believe I'm going to be in "heaven" sipping tea with loved ones who have died before me, but I do believe my energy has to move on in the universe as something somewhere.  In a sense, I don't think we ever really "leave the planet". 

(in reply to knees2you)
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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 3:19:24 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I am guessing he meant/said orgasm, not organism.

the.dark.

Hehe.



Oh phooey.  No points awarded?
I am deeply upset.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 6:40:45 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I used to think, care and believe what happens at the end, but now, I don't care, for I am busy thinking of life and how best to enjoy it.

I get the impression that many faiths go on about some sort of paradise after death, but what if this is the paradise, we are in it, but because of various teachings, we choose not to see it. Instead people believe that when they are old and without energy, it is a short time to wait until they are in a realm , which is without proof, an idea, nothing more.

Does it ever occur that what the various faiths have said through the centuries, might be nothing more than scare stories used to control people. We have life, and this world is beautiful, lets not pine for an idea, when we have beauty around us, accept our paradise and make it better.

Is it not better at the end of our days to look back on what we have achieved, the fun we have had and the life we have lived, the people we have brought into the world and those we have helped, than think of something unknown, possibly a lie to come. If we are to have only one life, live it to the full and make the world beautiful.

And, if it comes to the kingdom of god, then that I believe is within the person as well as outside, the earth is paradise if only we could see it.


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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 6:43:58 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Hey Rule, I have stock in Verizon..Let them call to the heavens all they want..

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RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 7:10:16 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Belief and hope are interchangeable in your context. What could be more depressing then an uncaring universe and oblivion? If that is the case then what is the use in our basic tenets? Love...honesty...self-sacrifice…charity…all that is good about us would be for not. All our good deeds would be for nothing on the universal scale. Our existence would be but a flicker of time… meaningless.

The alternative is a chance of another existence after physical death and a judgment for our deeds on earth. Even if not true it is something to hope for as an alternative to nothingness.

Now in reality the truth means nothing because those that believe and those that don’t will meet the same fate like it or not. So how you feel as you live makes the difference. I would rather believe in God than oblivion. That means as I approach death I will be no less fearful but can look forward to the possibility of another existence of soul. Those non-believers however will face the same fear but will have nothing but cold dark oblivion to comfort them.

Butch



Your argument is the exact reason why I'm skeptical of the whole concept of a deity.

What's the old saying?  If God didn't exist we would have to invent him.

And when I first started to question what I had grown up with, it was a terrifying thought that there is nothing more.  But if you think about it, when you die, and that turns out to be it, you won't know the difference anyway.  If you die and there's a beautiful life on a cloud somewhere then break out the party hats and champagne.

But I'm not not going to live my life on the basis of what may very well be a fairytale.




rule we often don't agree...but in this case we do...your third and my third paragraph are the same...can you believe it?

Just remember some respected theorists are now speculating that thought may make reality… whoa…. If this is true I feel for you.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Why do you believe in what fate awaits you? - 7/8/2009 7:54:41 PM   
atypicalsub


Posts: 284
Joined: 4/11/2008
From: an atypical sub
Status: offline 		I believe in reincarnation. I believe I have been to this mortal plane in other forms before, and I will likely return again. I do believe I have some fragments of memories that are not part of my current life. Mostly these have come to me as small peices in dreams over many years. I don't believe I was ever anyone famous, not ever key to any event that changed the world. That in part is why I believe these to be memories; because I have obscure details about events that would never be considered noteworthy enough to record for history. My strongest and most abundant recollections come from my life as a British sailor in WWII. Not an officer or anyone of high rank, just one of the thousands of annonymous grunts who fought in the war, but whos existance has since been completely forgotten. From the memories I have I was able to track down the vessel I served on, but I have no clue of the name I answered to in that life. The ship itself was never famous, but the service record corresponds to the locations and events I have seen in my dreams.


_____________________________

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