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Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 7:56:12 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


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Status: offline 		So the ACLU is stepping up to defend Fred Phelps against being banned from a small town.  It's what they do and I don't want to discuss wether they are right ot wrong for this - somebody has got to fight for free speach no matter how abhorent that speach might be.

What I want to know is why do people always say if we ban this one thing it's a slippery slope and before you know it we'll... blah-blah-blah.  And it's always something extreme: if we accept gay marriage, next they'll want to have sex with animals.  If we ban protests at funerals because it's a sacred event, next they'll want to ban (something) at (some event) that has nothing to do with the original issue. 

What it seems we're saying is that we aren't smart/strong enough to draw a line and stick with it.  Why can't we simply pass a well-crafted law (OK, that might be the biggest problem) that simply states you will not protest at funerals?  Maybe narrow it down to only military funerals.

In other words, rather than cowardly hide behind a zero-tolerence policy, why can't we take issues on a case-by-case basis?  Would that really be so terrible?

~Dave



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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 7:58:07 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Who the hell is Fred Phelps ?

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 8:01:55 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

Who the hell is Fred Phelps ?

IIRC, a raging homophobic asshole who leads a "church" comprised of more raging homophobic assholes.
Ah yes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps


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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 8:03:35 PM   
intenze


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Status: offline 		Fred Phelps is a dickhead whose Westboro Baptist Church protests at military funerals and such trying to get publicity for his anit-gay agenda. 

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 8:05:15 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		I remember the name now..He is a piece of crap..

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 8:06:02 PM   
intenze


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Status: offline 		There is an Act that Bush Signed into law the prohibits protests within 300 feet of a National Cemetary. It doesn't seem to be enough to ward off Fred and his ilk.

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 8:15:14 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		In my mind there isn't much more discusting than his group protesting at a military funeral.

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 8:24:40 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Its a slippery slope...because once you go down this path things get.......slippery.
Sure it might seem eminently reasonable to shut up this asshole but there will be another asshole right behind him....so what the fuck lets shut this guy up too.....and I'm not sure I like this guy either....he has to go.
See its easier to do it the second time once we accept the fact that we can do it the first time.Very slippery indeed.

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 8:30:52 PM   
olena


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Status: offline 		Because no one can agree to what is sane or common sense. Because one person talking to you about one thing could come off completely sane and talking about another subject you think is out of this world crazy.

In terms of your specific example while pretty much most of us would agree to such law if it passed you would have others trying to ban protests pretty much everywhere on the thought of it not being patriotic or respectful.

It is the difference between common sense and mutual respect and believing one is morally right.

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 8:35:39 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

What I want to know is why do people always say if we ban this one thing it's a slippery slope and before you know it we'll... blah-blah-blah.  And it's always something extreme: if we accept gay marriage, next they'll want to have sex with animals.  If we ban protests at funerals because it's a sacred event, next they'll want to ban (something) at (some event) that has nothing to do with the original issue. 




Why? Because people are fearful of perceived additional intrusions into their status quos.

If you're a bigot, you fear having more people in your environment who are unlike you.

If you're a leftist, you fear rightie encroachment.

If you're a rightie, you fear liberal encroachment.

If you value liberty, you fear an even bigger government.

And so on, and so forth...


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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/8/2009 8:46:37 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		A slippery slope is a logical fallacy, and it's not a valid argument here. The argument I make is that the law is that ALL are equally protected under the law. It's the law we agreed upon. When we make an exception for one group that it's okay to violate that law because we are mostly all disgusted at Phelps (even garden variety homophobes hate this motherfucker) than you are violating the social contract we all agreed upon.

We should all just ignore the fucking prick and his deranged family. They want people to pass laws, it's their aim to get people to violate the social contract I mentioned. Phelps and his children are all lawyers. They don't defend any other people but themselves. This is how they make their cash. Don't give them what they want. People are slowly starting to realize this. I praise those bikers who block the families from seeing these crazies. It's what we should do. Don't yell at them, don't acknowledge them, and don't give them what they want. They revel in fights, they hope someone will hit them so they can sue. We need to only be watchful for Phelps to make a legal mistake, than someone can sue and take his funding for these trips. It worked on that White Aryan Resistance moron.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 7/8/2009 8:48:34 PM >

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/9/2009 2:25:36 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
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Status: offline 		SBY: The bikers you refer to are The Patriot Guard Riders.  I'm a non-riding member.  You're not likely to meet a better group of people :)

About 3 yrs ago I took my family to attend the funeral of a soldier as the service was being held at the church the Mrs grew up in.  Phelps had about 4 people with him - The Guard had about 300.  The local PD told Phelps in no uncertain terms that they were not they to set foot on the property of the church.  Instead, they cowered in their rented SUV about 2 blocks away.  This seemed like a very reasonable way to handle what became a media circus.  It was surreal...  Later on today I'll find the exact name of the current town in question town and why they didn't think to use a simialr approach.

It would be nice if we could somehow manage to collectively ignore such fringe elements - no wait, that would be government-based mind control - where's my tinfoil hat! :D

I understand the whole "the 1st time we ban something is the hardest - it's gets easier after that" argument.  But don't we carve-out exceptions to things all the time?  Sadly, no examples come to mind at 4am...  In the end, I have zero-tolerance for Zero Tolerance.  Hey - I need to edit my sig with that!

For anyone who cares, Mr Phleps and his group believe that the US is far too tolerant of homosexulaity and that god is killing our soldiers as a way to punish us.  So they show up at the funeral of a fallen soldier to esentially mock the family and make them feel even worse on the day they lay their loved one to rest.  It's always easier to pick on someone who is realtively defenseless, ie the family, than it is to protest at, say, the Pride Parade.

Damn, it's 4:25 am - I gotta get up for work in 2 hours!

~Dave

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/9/2009 2:54:41 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

For anyone who cares, Mr Phleps and his group believe that the US is far too tolerant of homosexulaity and that god is killing our soldiers as a way to punish us. So they show up at the funeral of a fallen soldier to esentially mock the family and make them feel even worse on the day they lay their loved one to rest. It's always easier to pick on someone who is realtively defenseless, ie the family, than it is to protest at, say, the Pride Parade.


Dave, I really don't think they believe much of anything. I think they like the attention, and they do make money off of this. I think they have been paid millions by their own home city of Wichita (I think it's Wichita) just to avoid court room spectacles. Phelps knows how to fuck with the system. He knows people want to avoid him. So he decides to be as outrageous as possible. I remember reading a story about him and his crazy family picketing the restaurant that some poor young girl worked at that dared to be in a counter protest against him. They harrassed her for months. I think the restaurant finally settled with the pricks. They are a family of flim-flammers.

quote:

Damn, it's 4:25 am - I gotta get up for work in 2 hours!


I hear you, I just got to work. I only slept 4 hours last night, and my left ankle is throbbing from spraining it the other day. I want to go home.

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/9/2009 7:56:20 AM   
intenze


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Status: offline 		I think they are in Topeka.  They are a nightmare, the worst form of humanity. 

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/9/2009 8:13:50 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

In my mind there isn't much more discusting than his group protesting at a military funeral.


It's not just military funerals, it's wherever they can get attention.  During the tornadoes in Arkansas last year they protested at those funerals too. 

It's not even what could be called a group, more of a cult.  The whole church consists of Phelps' extended family.

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/9/2009 8:16:56 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		See thats the thing right there....they aren't and never will be worth subverting our own laws to shut up.
The more they babble the more they expose themselves....leave em be....and ignore them.

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/9/2009 8:59:04 AM   
intenze


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Status: offline 		agreed, slavemike. Spot on.

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RE: Why Is It A Slippery Slope? - 7/9/2009 9:44:43 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Without getting into any specifics about Phelps, I think Slaveboy pretty much hit it on the head. There is an agreement in place that we all have the right to express views, and to limit one person's views is a breech of that agreement.

For the record, I am against "hate speech" laws as they restrict a person's freedom of speech. Actually those hate speech laws are a very good example of the very slippery slope to which the OP refered, more and more things are being prosecuted under those laws, the body of prohibited speech is expanding all without needing any new laws, just an expanding interpretation of the existing laws.



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