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What comes first????? The chicken or the egg?


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What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 3:10:32 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		After reading and replying to the "What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement?" thread, I started thinking on a similar subject. If you are being judged by the community by how you play and you reputation regarding play, how do you get the reputation?

You are new to BDSM Play activities but experienced as a Dominant, and if sub/slaves want to find an experienced Dominant rather than one with little or no play experience. you are in a no win situation.

My question is:

If you need experience (preferably in the public scene), before you can get a sub/slave; how do you get the experience without having a sub/slave?

We will assume that you do not have friends who have sub/slaves who are willing to allow you to play with their property.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 2/17/2006 3:11:12 AM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 3:32:12 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:


If you need experience (preferably in the public scene), before you can get a sub/slave; how do you get the experience without having a sub/slave?



In my experience, I find the reverse is more of an issue. One of my requirements to consider meeting a sub from online is that they have been to some kind of public event be it a munch or a demo or the like. Nothing to do with whether one has played or not, just done something to show they've turned off their computer and joined the real world. I often find that not only have they not done that, but they also do not want a Domme who requires any kind of public scene involvement; i.e. they want to keep things completely private.

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 3:51:38 AM   
MysticalPhoenix


Posts: 212
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Kelloggsville, Vanilla County MI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

If you need experience (preferably in the public scene), before you can get a sub/slave; how do you get the experience without having a sub/slave?

We will assume that you do not have friends who have sub/slaves who are willing to allow you to play with their property.


It may work differently for the Dominant males, but uncollared male subs practically beg Dominant females to do scenes with them in public.

Phoenix

_____________________________

---------------------------------------------------------
Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are.

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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 4:37:39 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		i find my eggs come first, but its more likely because i refuse to have any dealings with chickens.

But when i used to play in public i had a mentor who looked out for me and knew the group at the clubs.

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 6:15:06 AM   
FTopinMichigan


Posts: 571
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
If you need experience (preferably in the public scene), before you can get a sub/slave; how do you get the experience without having a sub/slave?


quote:

ORIGINAL: MysticalPhoenix

It may work differently for the Dominant males, but uncollared male subs practically beg Dominant females to do scenes with them in public.



From what I've observed and experienced, I agree with Phoenix. I also find it odd for a person to approach a complete stranger to engage in a scene, without having ANY knowledge of them, as a person, as a player, as a Domme. It happens often.

I would guess that the dynamic for gaining any experience as Top/Dom is quiet different from that of a submissive/bottom. When I entered into the community, and began to attend public events, I had only one experience, and felt lost to some extent, upon watching others. It was the "watching" of others that gave me an eye full to learn from, and I then sought out to meet those that I felt I could learn from, as well as enjoy. Most of what I learned, came from my own searches and personal experiences though. I was also very up front with my lack of experience, when I began. I do think finding mentors is a very good idea. I would also suggest several mentors, or joining groups, as it's best to get multiple views and learning experiences, to develop your own ideas/techniques and enjoyments.

Also, it's most important not to fib on how much experience one has, regardless of orientation. Honesty will help in understanding and learning from a knowledgeable and caring partner. An important point for a Dom/me to remember is that we can learn much from submissives, and don't discount what they have to offer, just by the fact they are the sub.

K

(in reply to MysticalPhoenix)
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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 6:49:21 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

After reading and replying to the "What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement?" thread, I started thinking on a similar subject. If you are being judged by the community by how you play and you reputation regarding play, how do you get the reputation?

You are new to BDSM Play activities but experienced as a Dominant, and if sub/slaves want to find an experienced Dominant rather than one with little or no play experience. you are in a no win situation.

My question is:

If you need experience (preferably in the public scene), before you can get a sub/slave; how do you get the experience without having a sub/slave?

We will assume that you do not have friends who have sub/slaves who are willing to allow you to play with their property.


I'll just tell you how my owner got practical experience many many years ago. He found a group he liked, went to their meetings a lot, formed friendships with people who taught him how to do things hands on. And because they were friends opportunities to practice and learn on others developed.

I think if gaining practical BDSM experience is important enough, you'll figure out ways to get it.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 9:22:32 AM   
LaMalinche


Posts: 2077
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline 		Hmmm. . .

"If you are being judged by the community by how you play and you reputation regarding play, how do you get the reputation? "

Honor is what you know about yourself. . . Reputation is what others think they know about you.

Which is more soul destroying. . . public laud for things that you did not accomplish. . . or public shame for misinturpatation of actual accompishments.

Crap, I am getting philisophical. Must go throw my head into the wall and stop the philosophy.

Oh, and as far as the actual question. . . practice on a vanilla friend (no, really, it works, it is amazing what people will do, or can be talked into.) And before I get flamed - I am not talking about a 30 minute manipulation session to talk some one into something they don't want to do.

Best,

LaMalinche


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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 10:11:46 AM   
Nuke718


Posts: 240
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		Well a scene at a party or club in front of an audience is one way to garnere reputation (be it good or bad). Another is word of mouth, ie former partners. Again that has the potential to be a positver or otherwise tho.

Making friends and "practicing" is possible, but some folks will simply not play with people they are invovled with.

I guess there isn't an easy answer, LoL. Not exactly unique in this lifestyle.

For me, I try to be open and upfront about both my strengths and weaknesses when it comes to experience. But I expect anybody I am negotiating with to be the same (not always the case unfortunately). If we don't both feel safe and comfortable trying something out together, I am more than willing to let the idea go. In the long run I hope thatmy "honesty" approach gets word of mouth and makes it into my rep, as I have scened with few people currently active in the local community.

Nuke

(in reply to LaMalinche)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 10:18:21 AM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		Ive found the reverse being difficult to find: Mentors to teach me how to go about things safely. So my reportorie is rather limited.

As far as "submissives" go, I have been lucky in that I have had three willing partners with whom to gain practical experience with, now down to two due to conflicts outside BDSM with the third: Turns out we really only tolerate each other. The other two, with whom I am good friends, I top and bottom with.

My reputation doesn't really bother me. So far that has simply been: She's wierd, avoid her.

< Message edited by Slipstreme -- 2/17/2006 10:19:05 AM >

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to LaMalinche)
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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 10:26:08 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
If you need experience (preferably in the public scene), before you can get a sub/slave; how do you get the experience without having a sub/slave?

We will assume that you do not have friends who have sub/slaves who are willing to allow you to play with their property.

The one way that I can think of is to search out submissives in your community that are only looking for play-partners and only looking for public play. Through these people you can better your reputation. I've also noticed that no matter how badly people talk about you, there will always be at least one or two people that won't listen and seek to find answers on their own.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 10:28:01 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MysticalPhoenix
It may work differently for the Dominant males, but uncollared male subs practically beg Dominant females to do scenes with them in public.

Yes, it is very different for male Dominants.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to MysticalPhoenix)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 10:59:10 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
If you need experience (preferably in the public scene), before you can get a sub/slave; how do you get the experience without having a sub/slave?

We will assume that you do not have friends who have sub/slaves who are willing to allow you to play with their property.

The one way that I can think of is to search out submissives in your community that are only looking for play-partners and only looking for public play. Through these people you can better your reputation. I've also noticed that no matter how badly people talk about you, there will always be at least one or two people that won't listen and seek to find answers on their own.



My original post was designed to be of general nature as I’m reasonably sure that others have a similar situation. We have a smallish community here, and tends to be very cliquey so just getting out and meeting folks is not as easy as it seems with all the internal political hoorah. On a personal point I really am at the stage where I don’t give a damn. The reality is that those submissives who identify as slave are probably 10% of the submissive population and those slaves who are interested in Gorean Lifstylers is probably 10% of their number. Thus my personal situation becomes irrevevant. My curiosity is both academic and for some who have a similar situation of small clique controlled communities.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 2:56:43 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		My apologies. Didn't mean for it to seem like I was addressing you personally, IB.

As for a small, clique controled situation........... well, thats a little tougher. I can't see that much would help that except for biding my time. I noticed that the "community" near me is much the same way. I also noticed that those within it fall out of favor from time to time. Power dynamics shift. All I had to do is be patient. To this day I still don't play publicly. I say fuck'm if they don't like it.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/17/2006 3:24:15 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Understood MD. I was also thinking of how many times we tell newbys to pop off and mingle at munches. This would be excelent where there is a larger group or several groups in that area, however I tend to believe from other threads that finding groups in your (generic your) area who welcome new folk is not always possible. I know this applies to non lifestyle areas too ... For a few I think it is thank God for places like CM.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/18/2006 8:49:43 AM   
artglfr


Posts: 235
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline 		Years ago I was a sub and there was a Mistress who enjoyed playing with me. One Halloween party She had me lead Her and Her friend into the Party ON LEASHES. Oh this really got the subs mad...here were TWO of the best Mistresses both out of their Normal roles and would not be playing with them!

I had a great and awesome time and invited a Mistress I knew to come join me and We played all night with the"subs".

this party got me known as a real "A" because lots of people felt that it was wrong!!!

We laughed our selves sick about this and I found I enjoyed Topping and also that ladies seemed to enjoy submitting to me so it was a very good situation.

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/18/2006 11:21:11 AM   
SimplyV


Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaMalinche
Oh, and as far as the actual question. . . practice on a vanilla friend (no, really, it works, it is amazing what people will do, or can be talked into.) And before I get flamed - I am not talking about a 30 minute manipulation session to talk some one into something they don't want to do.

Best,

LaMalinche




Dang it, LaMalinche ... you had to add that last part. Here I was all gussied up and ready to "talk" my idiot neighbor into a practice session for me.

jk.. Really this is kinda how I got started. Cept my nilla friend, turned out to be a RL Dom who was big in the lifestyle and I was the idiot newbie. I approached him, and boy did I get more than I bargained for.

V

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RE: What comes first????? The chicken or the egg? - 2/20/2006 5:08:30 PM   
phoenix1


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline 		the chicken is first

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 17
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