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Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 5:42:49 AM   
KNelson


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline 		Hi

This is my first post on this board but it seemed useful after spending several hours searching through threads and not finding anything particularly relevant so ... with due apologies for jumping in as a newbie, I'm off to the races.

I have been in a committed relationship for 6 years and am the vanilla-ish one referred to in the title. My partner told me about her kink up front but for her own reasons was not pursuing it at that time. Over the years though it had become readily apparent to me and to her that submission is just something that she needs to do. Cool. So a few months ago we started messing around a bit (I find D/s intriguing and do find I have more of an inner sadist than I realized, but would not say that domming, er, topping? -- I've never dabbled around in the scene, so I stumble on terminology here and there -- is something I have to have). She has found that she just can't get into the head space to submit to me. We've talked about it alot. She's concerned about changing the dynamic of our relationship and having heard her out, I agree with her reasoning.

So, she's going to go and see a Pro-Domme. We decided to go Pro because she's not looking for lifestyle and having been in that world is not interested in some of the associated drama that can come with it. She's not looking for any one to become overly attached to her.

OK, I've been spending a good deal of time thinking through areas that might trip me up -- I can be a little of the jealous sort and though I have read a great deal about BDSM have almost no experience with it. And yes we have been communicating -- talking through things as they come up. Like, well, how will being someone's submissive affect daily life? Her sexual activity with someone else (not sex, but as she gets highly turned on by pain it can only be termed as sexual activity in addition to her service needs, imo, but I'm willing hear and perhaps agree with other perspectives). The idea of her giving herself to someone else, does make me twitch a little -- not in the excessive way, but you know, though law prevents it being formal, we are married. But even though I twitch a little, I do get it and don't think her submission would be an act of infidelity.

So we are communicating. I know and consent. So why I am posting here? Well, this is not something I'd be comfortable talking through with most of my friends, for one and for two, being a thorough kind of person I'd like to be at least aware of things I haven't thought about but are potential pitfalls. I know, I know, you can never really figure out all of them until you are actually in the situation -- she hasn't gone yet, but still the methodical thinker in me causes me to try to anticipate things.

I would welcome your advice/comments/suggestions. Thoughts on further reading material (read intro to SM 101, read Screw the Roses, Bring me the Thorns, and many other books and websites) would be welcomed. Happy to answer questions that would clarify any detail. The primary thing I want to be able to do is support her and be there for her as she steps back into D/s and to maintain the health of our relationship (I know rule #1, keep communicating and rule #2 keep it honest -- any other rules of thumb?)

Would appreciate your thoughtful responses. And ah, don't know if it makes any difference but we are a lesbian couple. Many thanks,

KN
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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 5:47:53 AM   
UglyTruth


Posts: 126
Joined: 7/14/2008
Status: offline 		Is going along with her to the Pro an option?

edit: Welcome. I hope you find the help you're looking for. Based on what I've read here, you will get a lot of good advice.


< Message edited by UglyTruth -- 7/13/2009 5:48:47 AM >

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 5:51:53 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		You're talking with her.  You're trying to learn, and see if it fits you.  You're allowing a third in, under carefully discussed terms.  You two are doing a lot of things right.

The only other thing that I would suggest would be attending munches and getting to know local kinksters.  Perhaps some of them would be able to assist and mentor.

Sneaky hint - after her sessions with a pro Domme, she will be in a much more submissive mindset.  I'd Dominate her gently then - asking her to fetch stuff for you, to come over to you, etc.  This might help to get her to think of you as a Dom type.


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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 6:02:20 AM   
KNelson


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline 		Yes going with her is an option and we plan for that to happen after the first couple of sessions.

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 6:08:41 AM   
UglyTruth


Posts: 126
Joined: 7/14/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KNelson

Yes going with her is an option and we plan for that to happen after the first couple of sessions.


It sounds to me like you're on the right track.

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 6:09:50 AM   
KNelson


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline 		DarkSteven,

That is a sneaky hint but strikes me as cheating a bit. If she's going to be in a mindset to submit to me, it should be willing, no? Otherwise I'd be taking advantage of someone who is vulnerable and that does not strike me as a way to maintain a healthy relationship. Besides, she is already naturally submissive -- in any relationship there's one who tends to be the more dominant and that one is already me.

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 6:16:51 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		Congratulations on yours and your mate's relationship, and kudos for accepting this need in her, even when it isn't one you share between you.

I think you've got a good handle on things. It's ok to be nervous in delving into a new direction, and you're right... keeping the lines of communication open, especially when there are issues cropping up that are tough ones that we tend not to want to talk about and put off in the hopes that they'll 'get better', can make the difference between retaining a happy, healthy relationship and one that gets 'sick'.

I think one of the most important, and often forgotten, aspects of maintaining multiply satisfying relationships is that aspect of making sure that every relationship is nurtured on its own terms. It's easy, when a new relationship slips into the picture, to get distracted... and more-so when it is something like this, where one person in Relationship A starts to develop a Relationship B in which the other party in Relationship A isn't involved... And it isn't just the person starting the new relationship who gets distracted... both parties in Relationship A get distracted, in their own way, by Relationship B. For the first person, the distraction is with the new relationship being built. For the 2nd person, it is analyzing how that new relationship is affecting the existing relationship... but often, both parties in Relationship A stumble about nurturing Relationship A.

Rather than focus on what is going on with your girlfriend and the pro-domme, make the focus of your relationship when you are together about -yours and your mate's- relationship. Remember and nurture the things that the two of -you- share, and the things that make you special to one another, and let Relationship B shape itself out of its own bit of time. There will be crossover, because every relationship that we are in shapes us to some extent, but it is important to remember why you love one another, and let the relationship that you are IN be the priority -for you- while you are together. I'm not saying to force her into not sharing about the new relationship -- I'm just recommending that navigating this area of the relationship is a little easier if you remember why you cherish one another in the macrocosm of the relationship, rather than worrying about how things will change in the microcosm of the relationship.

There is something called "new relationship energy" or NRE, that one hears about in the poly community that is going to have an impact on what is going on in your household for a while, and it may trigger your concerns about jealousy. NRE is that 'honeymoon' period where a new relationship seems to completely consume the people who are in it. It's a normal process that enables the new relationship to 'bond'... sort of like clamping together something that one has glued. It happens in -every- new relationship. In the childbirth process, it is called 'bonding'. In a job, it is called the "orientation phase". During this stage, it won't be uncommon for your mate to become distracted and chatter on incessantly about the other person -- even in your case where you've chosen that 'other person' carefully as a professional. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't matter, because one of the issues that often comes up for individuals who are in therapy is that the individual becomes focused on the therapist in many of the same ways. It is important to remember that this -doesn't- mean that your mate doesn't love you any more, or doesn't love you as much... it's the 'new' factor, just like a youngster with a new toy... and while you're not IN that new relationship with her, your own health and the health of your relationship is going to depend on both of your ability to weather the NRE and remember why you love one another when the normal obsession of the new relationship rears its head.

Feel free to drop me a line if you have questions. I've been negotiating similar waters for the entirity of my adult life, and, when asked, have done my best in helping others through the rocky shoals as well.
Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/13/2009 6:17:54 AM >

_____________________________

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 6:21:28 AM   
KNelson


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline 		Ah and on going with. I am both looking forward to and dreading. Looking forward to because, well, I'm insanely curious about it and have an active imagination, so it'll be satisfying, I think to see the reality vice the imagined. Dreading, well, I have strong protective streak and do not like to see her be hurt. Of course, this is qualtiatively different so I think I will be able to keep quiet and the very least I am pretty sure I can fully engage the analytical part of me (which is large part of my personality). But, I won't really know until I experience it. And you don't know what you don't know, hence the post in the first place. I can say the CP that we have done and light flogging that we have done doesn't bother me as I had thought it would and I get a kick out of it when she squirms.

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 6:28:05 AM   
KNelson


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline 		Dame Calla

That's wise advice on new relationship dynamics. Thank you for that. I have already caught myself a couple of times being a tiny bit impatient with talk of the new shiny and is something I have been pondering.

What's the protocol, is there any protocol, for when I eventually meet the domme?

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 6:41:38 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

What's the protocol, is there any protocol, for when I eventually meet the domme?


I would ask the domme, and I'd ask her directly, rather than asking through your mate. It shows a measure of self-awareness and self-reliance to step forward and say "This meeting is coming up, and I am wondering if you have any protocol in place for dealing with a visit from a mate in a relationship like ours."

I don't know how you are about this, but I've seen, over the years, that one thing that many of us who gravitate towards dominance forget is that part of what allows us to be dominant is our capacity for confidence -- and for many of us, we retain that confidence because we're not afraid to go digging for information so we can step out effectively. However, just as many dominant-type individuals get tongue-tied around situations like this as not, and it behooves us to remember that information-gathering is something that enhances our personal strength and preparation... it doesn't mark us as 'weak' or 'incapable' -- it marks us as 'pro-active' and 'prepared'.

Dame Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 6:53:21 AM   
KNelson


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline 		DC,

It's extremely rare for me to be tongue tied in any given situation. And preparation is a critical aspect, IMO, in new situations. Maybe that's just the Capricorn in me speaking. Asking, hey, what a concept! In the line of work I am in, it is not atypical to find folks, myself included when I am being stupid, who don't ask for fear of revealing that they don't know. Knowledge is an important commodity in my work.

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 8:23:18 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Have you read When Someone You Love Is Kinky?

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 8:26:52 AM   
KNelson


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline 		I have angelikaJ. I hate to say it, as I can see that for someone who hasn't read much, it'd be useful. For me, by the time I got to that title I'd read enough that it was kind of repetitive.

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 9:01:01 AM   
ownedslavesweet


Posts: 23
Joined: 10/7/2007
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		KNelson,
Sent you mail on the other side. My initial reaction is you are doing things pretty much the 'right' way, if there is such a thing. Best of luck. :)

lyss

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 9:28:25 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Heh, I'd say you two are doing the dance flawlessly. Look, the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter what you two do or don't do. What matters is that you two have locked hands, chosen some direction, and are exploring it like a team. The more you think of it as a partnership... you two as a couple seeking out ways to enhance/improve your collective life as opposed to two individuals, the better off you are.

If you consider it, it is the joint exploration that really matters. Destinations and goals come and go as time marches on. Who's to say she'll still want to submit a decade from now? How do we know that you yourself aren't going to find an ever-increasing amount of interest in the dominance side? Heck, why can't it turn out to be something totally different and radical that works out for you two 20 years from now?

What matters now is that you two are talking until there is mutual understanding of the joint relationship needs then acting like two members of the same team based upon that joint understanding. Keep it up.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 10:10:04 AM   
KNelson


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline 		Jeff

Something radical and different that works for us 20 years from now. I like that. If we can do that we won't have been static in our lives, and that would be a true blessing for us both. I see too many folks who just get stuck in what seems to be a never ending cycle that becomes a comfortable habit and then one day, they just stop living somehow never having known how it came to that.

KN

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 10:20:59 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Heh, I'd say you two are doing the dance flawlessly. Look, the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter what you two do or don't do. What matters is that you two have locked hands, chosen some direction, and are exploring it like a team. The more you think of it as a partnership... you two as a couple seeking out ways to enhance/improve your collective life as opposed to two individuals, the better off you are.

If you consider it, it is the joint exploration that really matters. Destinations and goals come and go as time marches on. Who's to say she'll still want to submit a decade from now? How do we know that you yourself aren't going to find an ever-increasing amount of interest in the dominance side? Heck, why can't it turn out to be something totally different and radical that works out for you two 20 years from now?

What matters now is that you two are talking until there is mutual understanding of the joint relationship needs then acting like two members of the same team based upon that joint understanding. Keep it up.


My hero. *grins*


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 10:22:46 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		KN:

I'm a huge believer that if you are talking about something designed to last decades not months, then you have to be more concerned with the internal structures than the immediate outcome. When I started this whole M/s thing with Carol & I, originally I was focused on external definitions.... "how do I built a great master/slave relationship?" More recently, I've gotten a much saner focus... "How do I make the best relationship for Carol & I that I can?" Right now, that continues to be exploring M/s. But I'm pretty open to the idea that at some indistinct point in the future, it could be something totally different. My big "Ah Ha!" was that I'm completely fine with any answer which is [collectively] better than the previous one.

So for me, what I have committed to is life-long incremental improvement to my marriage as a joint exploration between myself and my wife. If I'm actually successful at making every year for the next 40 years be at least a little better than the one before it... well... I'm gonna call that "winning at life" *laughs*.

By the way, I was the vanilla partner between Carol & I. You could've knocked me over with a feather when she asked about collaring her *laughs*.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 11:07:07 AM   
KNelson


Posts: 26
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline 		Carol is a lucky woman and you sound like a lucky man. And I could not agree more that the essential thing is the long term improvement of a marriage. I definitely agree with your notion of winning at life.

As to being knocked over with a feather, well I wasn't. As I said she had spoken about it when we first got together and then not so much. But I have been reading on off for the past six years because I knew the topic would come up when she was ready to explore that side of herself again. She'd been in a D/s relationship where she as badly hurt. That took some time to heal.

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RE: Advice for the Vanilla-ish partner? - 7/13/2009 2:16:46 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Her going to a pro may scratch an itch temporarily but it won't get you up to speed.

If she's waited six years before saying this, she could wait two weeks for you to get some books on D/s and topping and being ready to start. Beyond that, if you're the dom, then you decide the time line. Which includes telling her to wait if this doesn't seem right to you.

If she does go, I suggest strongly you go with her, be honest about your desire to learn, and have this be a demonstration of how to safely hit, bind, etc. Have it be a learning experience for you with her as demo bottom.

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