RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together

RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

marie2 -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/16/2009 11:16:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lazarus1983 quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 General Reply I'm all for this kind of thing in cases of terminal illness. And in this particular case, it's kind of sweet that they died together, but I think it's going to get far too sticky if they start letting healthy people do this for whatever reason. Ok the husband was pretty damn old at 85, but still, he could have lived another 5 or 10 years. What about the next deaf and blind person who wants to die? What if he/she is only 25 and is depressed because he/she just lost his/her sight in an accident and just decides he/she doesn't want to live any longer? Is it legal for a 85 yr old, but not a 25 yr old? What about a healthy 50 yr old who wants to die with their terminally ill grown child? What about the person who wants to die after losing a spouse in an accident? What about this and what about that? Where do the lines get drawn? Who is "they" in "but I think it's going to get far too sticky if they start letting healthy people do this for whatever reason." The government? Should a bureaucrat decide for us if our reasons to want to die are adequate? A duly appointed health official? Do we need to fill out forms, go to a Secretary of State's office, and politely ask if we can die? Do we need to stand there with hat in hand and pie charts and an essay describing why we think we deserve the right to end our lives? All those instances that you just mentioned? The blind, the deaf, the 85 year old...if they want to die, that's their choice. I have absolutely no right to tell them otherwise, I have no right to judge their decisions and their situation and tell them that's not adequate enough. And once again, if someone REALLY wants to kill themself, they will. Something as simple as a plastic bag is all you need. Sometimes people think they want to die because they are experiencing a particularly desparate situation and they don't think it's ever going to get better. People kill themselves for all sorts of reasons, that if they had lived, would have passed in time. Something seems off with the idea of an 18 yr old walking into a suicide clinic because he didn't get into the college of his choice. Or the young twentysomething experiencing his or her first heartbreak, wanting to end his/her life. To most people these aren't things that lead to suicidal thoughts, but for some, it might be the last straw that puts them over the edge. Or, as Arpig noted, often times people who kill themselves are people who have had a history of mental illness. What if medication could help them, and they could lead normal and happy lives instead of taking the "drink". What about a single mother with kids to support...she lost her job, doesn't want to live any more, should she be allowed to kill herself, and the state be forced to support her kids? These are just a few quickies off the top of my head. Yes, there should be some criteria, some laws, some "forms" to fill out before you just walk into a suicide clinic and get your drinkipoo (and there probably is). My thought process was where should that line be drawn.? Are you saying that anyone of adult age, at any time, for any reason, should just be able to walk in, pay their fee, and get their drink?

DanaYielding -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/16/2009 11:35:53 PM)
This is a particularly fascinating discussion to me. I appreciate everyones, responses. In my own life, my father died from complications of Multiple Sclerosis. It was not his own choice to end his life at the time but the doctor made it MY choice at his final exaserbation of the disease. He was in constant pain and agony, for years, a burden to others yes, but we did not mind that one single bit, We thought of him at his final weeks of life. I knew my father did not want to be prolonged in agony any further so basically after i made the choice for him to no longer receive vital care, he was starved to death in the hospital. I had the chance to speak with him about 2 hours before he passed, after i had made the decision that he recieve no more life saving care. He was OK with my choice and ready, although scared of the great unknown, he was content of life lived and relieved to know his suffering would end. That was nearly 12 years ago, Had he the option of ending his own life, he would have chosen it.

lazarus1983 -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/16/2009 11:41:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 quote: ORIGINAL: lazarus1983 quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 General Reply I'm all for this kind of thing in cases of terminal illness. And in this particular case, it's kind of sweet that they died together, but I think it's going to get far too sticky if they start letting healthy people do this for whatever reason. Ok the husband was pretty damn old at 85, but still, he could have lived another 5 or 10 years. What about the next deaf and blind person who wants to die? What if he/she is only 25 and is depressed because he/she just lost his/her sight in an accident and just decides he/she doesn't want to live any longer? Is it legal for a 85 yr old, but not a 25 yr old? What about a healthy 50 yr old who wants to die with their terminally ill grown child? What about the person who wants to die after losing a spouse in an accident? What about this and what about that? Where do the lines get drawn? Who is "they" in "but I think it's going to get far too sticky if they start letting healthy people do this for whatever reason." The government? Should a bureaucrat decide for us if our reasons to want to die are adequate? A duly appointed health official? Do we need to fill out forms, go to a Secretary of State's office, and politely ask if we can die? Do we need to stand there with hat in hand and pie charts and an essay describing why we think we deserve the right to end our lives? All those instances that you just mentioned? The blind, the deaf, the 85 year old...if they want to die, that's their choice. I have absolutely no right to tell them otherwise, I have no right to judge their decisions and their situation and tell them that's not adequate enough. And once again, if someone REALLY wants to kill themself, they will. Something as simple as a plastic bag is all you need. Sometimes people think they want to die because they are experiencing a particularly desparate situation and they don't think it's ever going to get better. People kill themselves for all sorts of reasons, that if they had lived, would have passed in time. Something seems off with the idea of an 18 yr old walking into a suicide clinic because he didn't get into the college of his choice. Or the young twentysomething experiencing his or her first heartbreak, wanting to end his/her life. To most people these aren't things that lead to suicidal thoughts, but for some, it might be the last straw that puts them over the edge. Or, as Arpig noted, often times people who kill themselves are people who have had a history of mental illness. What if medication could help them, and they could lead normal and happy lives instead of taking the "drink". What about a single mother with kids to support...she lost her job, doesn't want to live any more, should she be allowed to kill herself, and the state be forced to support her kids? These are just a few quickies off the top of my head. Yes, there should be some criteria, some laws, some "forms" to fill out before you just walk into a suicide clinic and get your drinkipoo (and there probably is). My thought process was where should that line be drawn.? Are you saying that anyone of adult age, at any time, for any reason, should just be able to walk in, pay their fee, and get their drink? At no time did I say that. My argument is that if someone really wants to, they will. It's the easiest thing to do. A bag and some rope, and you can drift off to sleep. To try to outlaw suicide and regulate it is retarded. People that really want to will. I'm also saying that it should be up to the person to end their life. What someone else thinks, what their social mores are, is irrelevant. Most people in those situations you described may feel like that, "oh my god I just want to die!" But how many of them actually do it? It'd be easier to kill yourself at home than to walk into a suicide clinic if there were such a thing. Just because you hand someone a gun, they won't automatically use it. Just because you hand someone a drug, they won't automatically use it.

marie2 -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/16/2009 11:50:30 PM)
Oh, I must have misunderstood you. When you said this: quote: The government? Should a bureaucrat decide for us if our reasons to want to die are adequate? A duly appointed health official? Do we need to fill out forms, go to a Secretary of State's office, and politely ask if we can die? Do we need to stand there with hat in hand and pie charts and an essay describing why we think we deserve the right to end our lives? I though you were implying that anyone of any age under any circumstances should be free to go into a suicide clinic and end their life without interference from the "government", a "bueraucrat", a "duly appointed health officical" etc etc. Out of curiousity, do you think there should be certain criteria for those who specifically choose to use suicide clinics, or should anyone be allowed to get the drink with no questions asked?

lazarus1983 -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/16/2009 11:59:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 Oh, I must have misunderstood you. When you said this: quote: The government? Should a bureaucrat decide for us if our reasons to want to die are adequate? A duly appointed health official? Do we need to fill out forms, go to a Secretary of State's office, and politely ask if we can die? Do we need to stand there with hat in hand and pie charts and an essay describing why we think we deserve the right to end our lives? I though you were implying that anyone of any age under any circumstances should be free to go into a suicide clinic and end their life without interference from the "government", a "bueraucrat", a "duly appointed health officical" etc etc. Out of curiousity, do you think there should be certain criteria for those who specifically choose to use suicide clinics, or should anyone be allowed to get the drink with no questions asked? You're just in love with your suicide clinic idea. You should copyright that. I don't think a suicide clinic is necessary, because (for the millionth time) if someone really wants to, they will. I'm simply advocating that it's up to the individual, and it's not right for the government to intrude on behalf of other people that think it's wrong.

marie2 -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/17/2009 12:05:53 AM)
Way to backpeddle, dude.

lazarus1983 -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/17/2009 12:14:11 AM)
Way to put words in my mouth, bro. And if it's any consolation, you still haven't answered my question about who "they" are. You just started going on and on about your lovely suicide clinics.

DanaYielding -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/17/2009 12:15:34 AM)
Should a bureaucrat decide? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELYNOT not, not EVER ever. it is a family decision if not a personal one! And most certainly not a bureaucratic one, never EVER

Brain -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/17/2009 12:19:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DanaYielding This is a particularly fascinating discussion to me. I appreciate everyones, responses. In my own life, my father died from complications of Multiple Sclerosis. It was not his own choice to end his life at the time but the doctor made it MY choice at his final exaserbation of the disease. He was in constant pain and agony, for years, a burden to others yes, but we did not mind that one single bit, We thought of him at his final weeks of life. I knew my father did not want to be prolonged in agony any further so basically after i made the choice for him to no longer receive vital care, he was starved to death in the hospital. I had the chance to speak with him about 2 hours before he passed, after i had made the decision that he recieve no more life saving care. He was OK with my choice and ready, although scared of the great unknown, he was content of life lived and relieved to know his suffering would end. That was nearly 12 years ago, Had he the option of ending his own life, he would have chosen it. I have multiple sclerosis YouTube - Multiple Sclerosis Research Leads to Possible Cure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9M5PLhTqjs&feature=PlayList&p=ED1E307BF6389229&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=48 Living Forever: The Longevity Revolution http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4336018714668472419

susie -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/17/2009 6:15:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DanaYielding Should a bureaucrat decide? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELYNOT not, not EVER ever. it is a family decision if not a personal one! And most certainly not a bureaucratic one, never EVER I see it as very much a family decision. It is something we have all discussed over the last year and more so now that it appears my brain tumour may have come back. There is a lot of comfort for family members when they can see that there will be less suffering involved in the inevitable end.

autoRelease -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/18/2009 12:49:45 PM)
I'm someone who had to jump through institutional hoops to be permitted to do what I wanted with my own body. This is a similar issue: If you don't have control over what happens to your own life, then what do you have control over, and how much does it matter? I think criminalizing suicide is a human rights issue (not to mention rather pointless). Having said that, I do believe that the people who really want to die just do it. Those who try to make their suicide public or give warnings beforehand really are just crying for help. But that doesn't always work. A friend of my family's made that cry for help a few years ago. He didn't get it, not really. He's bipolar and his meds were adjusted - That was it. His family went right on treating him like shit (some of which might have been deserved, but nevertheless). I'm not a shrink, but I think his issues are caused by more than just being bipolar and no one is addressing them. If they had been, would he have attempted suicide in the first place? What is a person to do in that situation?

sirsholly -> RE: British musician and wife, die by assisted suicide together (7/18/2009 1:49:35 PM)
quote: I don't think a suicide clinic is necessary, because (for the millionth time) if someone really wants to, they will. I'm simply advocating that it's up to the individual, and it's not right for the government to intrude on behalf of other people that think it's wrong. i do think clinics make it easier for the families. It shows thought and planning on the part of the loved one who is the patient. Personally, if my parent were faced with a painful death and chose that route, they would have my total support. To me, it is a more dignified death.

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875