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Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/14/2009 8:35:04 PM

Art4Love

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I've been looking for a way to escape my current grap on life for a while now, (no, I'm not being an emo teenager. >_<) ..and well I want to pursue my education as an Artist by going to an Art School/University. If you’ve seen my profile pictures you know why. But, being in the U.S., I'll never be able to afford it..

Looking around, I realized that un Europe education is pretty close to free. ..to citizens of the UK. a.k.a, not me. I also looked at employment in the U.K, but government laws state that all jobs must first go to U.K. citizens, then EU, and Americans last (a brilliant policy btw..).

Then I looked into dual citizenship, and was sad to realize that because my parents and their ancestors have been here to long, I stand a snowballs chance in hell at obtaining dual citizenship. >_>

So now my question is, what are the major art/mixed schools in Ireland? ..and what’s tuition like? As an American do I stand a shot at acceptance? Keep in mind, my community college GPA right now is 3.0, and I'm not transfering anything over when I go.

I did some research on my own, but without hearing from people who actually live in Ireland and Europe, I can't really see the full scope of reality.

Some input for this oblivious American please~

< Message edited by Art4Love -- 7/14/2009 8:42:36 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/14/2009 10:55:58 PM

Arpig

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Contact the schools in Ireland that interest you and ask them.....

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RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 9:47:12 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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How does one earn a living doing art?

So do you mean you set up and easal and paint portraits to passerbys on the board walk?

Or is this more of a hobby?

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RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 9:56:55 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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How about an exchange program? Lots of Americans go to Trinity College in Ireland.

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RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 10:00:20 AM

angelikaJ

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Also, don't rule out the possibility of scholarships.

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RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 10:03:07 AM

Art4Love

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Joined: 7/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
How does one earn a living doing art?

So do you mean you set up and easal and paint portraits to passerbys on the board walk?

Or is this more of a hobby?

Honestly, this is more of a "talent" that I get really absorbed in.. and I want to refine it, and well I enjoy the shocked looks of respect and admiration I get when people see my works.. its a nice "pat, pat" on my ego. >_<

In my opinion, the people who paint on the sidewalks aren’t artists, their a one trick pony, doing the same trick over and over to earn some pocket change. Art isn’t, or at least it shouldn’t, be done only as a way to make a living.. it should be done because it has the capability to reach out to people, and leave the artist’s mark on the world.

I want to go to Art school so I can refine my skills, and leave pieces of my life passions behind when I die. ^^

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
How about an exchange program? Lots of Americans go to Trinity College in Ireland.

Ah, hmn.. that’s a good idea, Trinity you say? I just looked at it, and it appears taht they don't have an art program, so that one isn't an option.

< Message edited by Art4Love -- 7/15/2009 10:55:56 AM >

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RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 11:08:12 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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My apologies, I did'nt answer your question, because I was not sure how my answer would translate into how you conduct your education in the US. Here, on the boards is a better place to ask, as there are many here who can offer more than my basic understanding, an understanding that might even be incorrect.

But as to us in the UK, we have to pay for education other than the state run basic education. If you enrol on a course of say fine art, at degree level, the course costs may vary depending on the institution. My couse costs for a foundation degree in applied arts is circa £3500 a year, and that is just the couse, it's tuition. Materials, well, they are extra and in my case that includes precious metals, silver, gold, platinum and even some jewels depending on where the interests lie. Tools, yes colleges have them, but they are largely heavily abused, so my basic kit is about a grand to buy new, but I buy second hand, make or modify other tools to do the job, so a fraction of a thousand hopefully when all is done.

Then you have to include your accomodation, where you live, some colleges have halls of residence, but they can be fairly ripe places often awash with beer and noise, teenage kids first time away from home with zero skills in keeping the place tidy as that was mummy's job, and let's not go there on the communal kitchens and bathrooms. You could live out in rented accomodation, but again rent has to be found, so part time work is the norm. Students make up the backbone of the low paid service jobs in my city, when they go home in summer, not only is there a sigh of relief, but more jobs become available for others.

So, unless you have a private income, a pot of cash or other, education really isn't free, or low cost, maybe low cost to other countries, but it is relative.

There is a few students at my college from the US, doing graphics courses, there are also students from Argentina, Brasil, Australia, New Zealand, various middle Eastern countries and African countries, those that I know of. The Uk I believe encourages foreign students, so you would be wise to look into overseas education possibilities.

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RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 11:17:03 AM

Art4Love

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Joined: 7/5/2009
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omg.. is that in UK pounds? I don't recognze the symbol, but if it is then your only paying 5,749.11 USD per year... Here, I'd have to pay a min. of 30,000 USD per year... thats basically free compaired to American costs...

Hmn.. So, If I get about 30,000 USD I could be set for 4 years of tuition.. omg, one year of my tution costs is equal to your four year degree, with 8,000 USD for supplies, text-books, and rent..

Well I personally like cleanly-ness, and order.. but I'm liveing with a slob of a room-mate right now, so I'll be fine...

..and if I'm going to leave the country for four years, i could borrow 30,000 USD, or conjure up some serious cash, and worry about it latter..

What college do you go to?

< Message edited by Art4Love -- 7/15/2009 11:19:18 AM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 3:58:42 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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Most universities allow one to go part time and complete a degree in 7 or 8 years. Why not live at home, work full time and go to school part time. Getting your associates means you only need two years in your major.

Yes you will have to sacrifice free time, but in a few years you will have the degree. I'm sure you can talk to admissions and finance people at Gage, for example, and see what is required.

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RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 5:12:54 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art4Love

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
How does one earn a living doing art?

So do you mean you set up and easal and paint portraits to passerbys on the board walk?

Or is this more of a hobby?

Honestly, this is more of a "talent" that I get really absorbed in.. and I want to refine it, and well I enjoy the shocked looks of respect and admiration I get when people see my works.. its a nice "pat, pat" on my ego. >_<

In my opinion, the people who paint on the sidewalks aren’t artists, their a one trick pony, doing the same trick over and over to earn some pocket change. Art isn’t, or at least it shouldn’t, be done only as a way to make a living.. it should be done because it has the capability to reach out to people, and leave the artist’s mark on the world.

I want to go to Art school so I can refine my skills, and leave pieces of my life passions behind when I die. ^^

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
How about an exchange program? Lots of Americans go to Trinity College in Ireland.

Ah, hmn.. that’s a good idea, Trinity you say? I just looked at it, and it appears taht they don't have an art program, so that one isn't an option.

If you are ever near Chicago- drop in to the Art Institute.
http://www.artic.edu/aic/

(in reply to Art4Love)

Post #: 10

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 5:20:05 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art4Love

omg.. is that in UK pounds? I don't recognze the symbol, but if it is then your only paying 5,749.11 USD per year... Here, I'd have to pay a min. of 30,000 USD per year... thats basically free compaired to American costs...

Hmn.. So, If I get about 30,000 USD I could be set for 4 years of tuition.. omg, one year of my tution costs is equal to your four year degree, with 8,000 USD for supplies, text-books, and rent..

Tuition might be more expensive for foreign students.

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Post #: 11

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 5:56:35 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Art4Love

I've been looking for a way to escape my current grap on life for a while now, (no, I'm not being an emo teenager. >_<) ..and well I want to pursue my education as an Artist by going to an Art School/University. If you’ve seen my profile pictures you know why. But, being in the U.S., I'll never be able to afford it..

So now my question is, what are the major art/mixed schools in Ireland? ..and what’s tuition like? As an American do I stand a shot at acceptance? Keep in mind, my community college GPA right now is 3.0, and I'm not transfering anything over when I go.

I can understand the allure of wanting to travel and go to school abroad.
However you are missing an affordable option: EWU, which is a state school does have an art program .

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Post #: 12

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/15/2009 6:33:27 PM

MistressWolfen

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Status: offline

Tuition is significantly more expensive to non-residents in any country. The process for acceptance into any decent school is quite onerous; you may want to start now for the next year. The better schools will insist on tests (theirs not US SATs) and a developed portfolio exhibiting control across a range of mediums. A professional degree may be less expensive than an academic one. Good luck on your journey.

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Post #: 13

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/16/2009 3:16:46 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

Tuition fees for overseas students are considerably higher - they are used to subsidize nationals.

However, there was a hint on last week's Question Time (BBC1) that bursaries and grants are available to overseas students too - this from a question from the audience to ask that if these funds are to be cut, should they not be prioritised for nationals rather than overseas students; might be worth investigating.

One question - why do you need a degree? I for one do not understand how someone can learn to be an artist - one either is or one isnt, and a degree level education isnt going to make a difference on that score?

E

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Post #: 14

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/16/2009 4:22:31 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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I am doing a degree in my art, simply because working at the level a degree demands, gives me access to processes I wouldn't normally get at, the higher the qualification, the greater the challenge and there the experience.

For my crafts, I wish to know of all the processes and techniques that can be involved to achieve whatever result, I can then once aware of what is available choose to follow a process, or even develop it to suit my own needs, or even ignore it completely. Knowledge is a tool to do a job, or even dream up another.

Yeah, I may come out of it all with a bit of paper that says I hold a degree in applied art, but really, a bit of paper with a few words on it is nothing but that, it tells others I can work to degree level, that is all, but I don't need to prove myself to others, so I am in it for the processes and the free use of fully equipped jewellery studios, forges and machine shops for the next few years. Not to forget a hot glass room with a kiln that stays on at full temperature all year, ceramics studios, the laser cutter and if I want, photographic studios with the only 3D photo studio in the south of England. I am at college for the fun and learning of my craft and other crafts that my tug at my interest.

I could leave college and set up now, but I feel I am not complete, my knowledge is not advanced enough, I know when I am ready, but, it is not now, I will know when.

I have also discovered, I have an ability with teaching, as I am able to learn what a teacher teaches, and then teach another who did not understand the teachers method, I can apply the knowledge to how another can learn. In other words, I am able to get information across to a receptive person in a way they can and like to learn. I am often called upon to explain, or translate what a teacher is trying to teach. Maybe an idea for the future then, teaching my craft to people with learning difficulties. That is something I have an ability in that I would not have known if I were not at art college.

Also I am known for being able to fault find a process that went wrong, and how to further a process which is defying the norm. Student asks teacher, how can I get this done, teacher says you should have thought about that before you started, and so can't help, scrap the thing and start again with full knowledge before you start. Knowledge is often gained by experimentation, and there is always a way to achieve an aim. So when teacher sends student off to scrap something and think again, I cannot help but to offer a method to make it work, I show them how and they do it and they are happy, as with many, it is the end result that pleases them, not the process, me, it's the process.Teacher on seeing the end result asks how it was done when there was not a method she could think of to solve the problem learns how, and the reply is, oh, not Andy again, the tutors have already said I have an ability to think outside of the box with craft problems and it helps immensely.

I don't like waste, waste of materials, and I don't like to see people unhappy, I see unhappiness and frustration, I have to help, it also teaches me as well and gives me an exercise to do, a problem to think around.

So, two things I have discovered I am good at via doing a degree course, things I never would have known or considered. I agree a degree course is more about personal development than the end result, the personal development part is my interest in doing what I am doing.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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Post #: 15

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/16/2009 4:36:47 AM

RCdc

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The conversion I think at the moment is 1.5
Aneirins course is an entirely different to a course to those that I am getting the impression you are looking for. Please do not get too excited at the prospect of getting one like A does.
Reality is you are looking at around £4,000 (sometimes, that is a term depending on the course and the Uni) average rising to £15,000 for an BA. That is tuition only. Top that with living expenses, food, bills etc. And that is for a UK student. If you are from overseas, you will be expected to pay more.

Being a non UK citizan, course fees rise. An MA for example, here, we pay nearly £6,000 for a foreign student, you will have to double that. Post grad is three times as much, paid twice (so its 6 altogether).

Unless you can get an exchange or are looking at a scholarship, you are not going to find it as easy as A has led you to believe. I don't want to sound like a naysayer, but the art education here is really tough and high demand. You also need certain qualifications and passes to gain a place particularly overseas.

$30000 will not go very far.

the.dark.

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RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/16/2009 4:42:24 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
One question - why do you need a degree? I for one do not understand how someone can learn to be an artist - one either is or one isnt, and a degree level education isnt going to make a difference on that score?

E

Because it depends what type of employment you want to get when you leave. Graphic design, media, curators all need degrees in art or art history these days. Art courses aren't just slapping down a piece of artwork and 'voila', even if you are that good.

Besides, the prestiege one gains from an art degree goes a long way as well. As much as we all like to believe that 'anyone can be an artist' the reality is that it just isn't true in the world of art. Unless you have connections that is or are good at networking or you can pick a big fanbase OR get a band to like your work. Then you are more or less set for life.

the.dark.

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Post #: 17

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/16/2009 4:54:35 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

The conversion I think at the moment is 1.5
Aneirins course is an entirely different to a course to those that I am getting the impression you are looking for. Please do not get too excited at the prospect of getting one like A does.
Reality is you are looking at around £4,000 (sometimes, that is a term depending on the course and the Uni) average rising to £15,000 for an BA. That is tuition only. Top that with living expenses, food, bills etc. And that is for a UK student. If you are from overseas, you will be expected to pay more.

Being a non UK citizan, course fees rise. An MA for example, here, we pay nearly £6,000 for a foreign student, you will have to double that. Post grad is three times as much, paid twice (so its 6 altogether).

Unless you can get an exchange or are looking at a scholarship, you are not going to find it as easy as A has led you to believe. I don't want to sound like a naysayer, but the art education here is really tough and high demand. You also need certain qualifications and passes to gain a place particularly overseas.

$30000 will not go very far.

the.dark.

Yeah, I will go with that, it is tougher than I thought it would be, craft is fine, no problem, but it is all the academia involved, the art history, the fuckin critics and definition of art, ways of seeing, art to the masses, political art, how to appease an employer etc. I rile against a lot of it, it is why I struggle with the academia, I am wary too much of this education will erode the way I see my art, I feel 'getting into' the way academia sees art will make me like those I disagree with. I got my own perspective, I don't need that to be replaced by an eminent art critic or popular oppinion garnered from the critics.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 7/16/2009 4:56:42 AM >

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Post #: 18

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/16/2009 5:03:37 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Yeah, I will go with that, it is tougher than I thought it would be, craft is fine, no problem, but it is all the academia involved, the art history, the fuckin critics and definition of art, ways of seeing, art to the masses, political art, how to appease an employer etc. I rile against a lot of it, it is why I struggle with the academia, I am wary too much of this education will erode the way I see my art, I feel 'getting into' the way academia sees art will make me like those I disagree with. I got my own perspective, I don't need that to be replaced by an eminent art critic or popular oppinion garnered from the critics.

That isn't exactly what I meant when I said it was hard, I meant that it is over subscribed and difficult to get onto a course.

Although you have put it out here A, and you know I have said to you over and over again, it is your attitude that stiffles your creativity, not the critics or the academia. Your attitude sucks and that is what makes it hard - for you.

I also think that the attitude that pavement artists aren't 'real art' pretty much sucks also.(Regarding the OPs statement earlier). It's thinking like that, that determines who become the artists and who become employed in the arts. And that is a huge difference.

Damn, where is HPH when ya want him?

the.dark.

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Post #: 19

RE: Ireland, Europe Education? - 7/16/2009 5:30:25 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Yeah, I will go with that, it is tougher than I thought it would be, craft is fine, no problem, but it is all the academia involved, the art history, the fuckin critics and definition of art, ways of seeing, art to the masses, political art, how to appease an employer etc. I rile against a lot of it, it is why I struggle with the academia, I am wary too much of this education will erode the way I see my art, I feel 'getting into' the way academia sees art will make me like those I disagree with. I got my own perspective, I don't need that to be replaced by an eminent art critic or popular oppinion garnered from the critics.

That isn't exactly what I meant when I said it was hard, I meant that it is over subscribed and difficult to get onto a course.

Although you have put it out here A, and you know I have said to you over and over again, it is your attitude that stiffles your creativity, not the critics or the academia. Your attitude sucks and that is what makes it hard - for you.

I also think that the attitude that pavement artists aren't 'real art' pretty much sucks also.(Regarding the OPs statement earlier). It's thinking like that, that determines who become the artists and who become employed in the arts. And that is a huge difference.

Damn, where is HPH when ya want him?

the.dark.

Oops, misunderstood again, but regards how difficult it is to get on arts courses, maybe it is a regional thing, for my college is always moaning it can't get enough applied arts students. Especially applied arts, because they bring in the most revenue, our department is heavy on machinery and utilities like fuel and materials. Sod all students means our department struggles to run, and that apparently was the reason for last years early retirements and technicians being let go. People always bear the brunt of costs savings.

Maybe it is regional, this town is an industrial town, well was, the courses that seem to be oversubcribed at my college are the graphics courses and photography courses.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 20

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