RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (Full Version)

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allisonludwig -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/17/2009 2:11:01 PM)

I have had my fair share of time stewing on this one, too, and what it boiled down to for me was that my ex did not really support my feminist views of equality. why do women have to do all the housework? I think it's bullshit. I don't have to worry about my current husband doing his fair share, because he sees it as equal responsibilities. If he didn't, there would be problems.

If someone I was with did not support my strong views on equality and such, it would be very difficult. I just had to share this, as I don't think it's a matter of reading the right books to get into the "mindset" to do all of his cleaning and work for him, when he is an adult man.

Allison



destinywillbe -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/17/2009 11:40:02 PM)

i felt this way about sharing him sexually...i do not like it at all.

i would think the same thing in my head you thought about housework, but out of fear of him leaving i went along with it to please him., but i hated it i am NOT bisexual or care to be involved in group sex.



sravaka -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/19/2009 8:21:23 AM)

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: allisonludwig

I have had my fair share of time stewing on this one, too, and what it boiled down to for me was that my ex did not really support my feminist views of equality. why do women have to do all the housework? I think it's bullshit. I don't have to worry about my current husband doing his fair share, because he sees it as equal responsibilities. If he didn't, there would be problems.

If someone I was with did not support my strong views on equality and such, it would be very difficult. I just had to share this, as I don't think it's a matter of reading the right books to get into the "mindset" to do all of his cleaning and work for him, when he is an adult man.



Hi Allison--

This is so close to why I was bothered in the first place.  If it's about gender roles pervasively--  i.e., you have no penis, so you *will* do the housework, period--  the guy is simply not a match. That's beyond my ability to tolerate, too. But the tricky thing/gray area for me is.....  if he opts to have a slave in his life, why would he not farm out tasks that are not congenial to him, to whatever extent he can do so without mucking up the relationship as a whole?  I'm very conscious that if I were a Domme, I'd be farming out exactly the same things.

I think it will probably work in the end....  I think I may even come to enjoy some parts of domesticity (esp. given that I won't be required to embrace it as a 24/7 raison d'etre)....   I still wonder, though.  Do I suck as a representative of my sex for being willing to embrace it at all, esp. in a service-oriented way?   What does it mean if your partner shares your views of gender equality generally but wants you doing what you perceive as gender-loaded things anyway, just because that's the way things shake down in your particular household?

I think I have my answer, but I'd be very curious about yours.

best,
sravaka







sravaka -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/19/2009 8:41:56 AM)

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: destinywillbe

i felt this way about sharing him sexually...i do not like it at all.

i would think the same thing in my head you thought about housework, but out of fear of him leaving i went along with it to please him., but i hated it i am NOT bisexual or care to be involved in group sex.


I empathize completely---  btdt.    And I suppose this is a bit of an undercurrent--  where do you draw the line? 

For me (too?) if I force myself to submit to "sharing" in a situation where my own needs are not being met--  am I being true to myself?  Am I being realistic?  My answer is no, and I am done with that. I am happier alone than worrying in that particular vein. (I don't assume that sharing where my own needs *are* met  is impossible..  but I have yet to experience it.)

I wish a better, if not perfect, match for you.














TreasureKY -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/19/2009 9:25:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

... I'm just curious if others have experienced this kind of reaction to housework (or anything else), and how you managed it internally.  I do try to refocus on the serving and pleasing him aspect, and that helps, but this visceral reaction still comes along sometimes anyway, and i'd really like to be rid of it.


Sounds like deep down, you don't view cooking for him, doing his laundry, etc. as your responsibility... yet.  Sure, you don't mind much if it's your idea and you feel like doing him a favor, but if he sounds like he's assuming you'll do it, you bristle. 

I would guess that since you currently aren't local to each other, you are finding it hard to accept the idea of assuming those responsibilities for him.  You are busy living your life and dealing with all the responsibilities that go along with it... the idea of taking care of his household just seems like adding more burden to your own plate.  Your attitude won't change until you're in a position where he can actually assume some of the responsibilities you currently take care of.  Once in that position you'll be better able to internalized that picking up after him is your job.  You can't exactly do that when he's 14 times zones away... right now, it's just fantasy and imagining.



DesFIP -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/19/2009 9:36:18 AM)

Basically it isn't who does what, it boils down to whether or not you have the same amount of down time. If he gets six hours a night to play video games while you are working and then doing housework, that's wrong. You'll resent him and burn out.

If you get four hours free time and he gets four hours free time, that's fine. If his two hours daily house work is spent cutting the lawn while you do the laundry, and you're both happy with that then great.
If it's vice versa also great.

But really you are putting the cart before the horse. Wait till you are together and see who feels like doing what and when. And then divvy up the stuff neither of you wants to do or do it together or outsource it.



Mercnbeth -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/20/2009 7:03:27 AM)

quote:

I identify as a slave, and have rather rigid ideas about what that means-- everything his to decide, nothing off limits, total obedience from me, long term if not permanent commitment, etc., etc.


Non-sequitur

quote:

What is getting to me is an extremely stupid thing: the prospect of being responsible for housework


Solution:Flex you rigid ideas, or your self identity label.

Or, eliminate one of your other 'masters'. Career or other responsibilities are pragmatic masters of your time and thoughts. Obviously cooking creates a distraction which, at least in the circumstances you describe, takes an emotional priority. Cooking for your relationship Master is not seen as you want it to and your frustration blossoms into resentment.

The talk you need to have is questioning whether your relationship dynamic has set you up in a situation where you can succeed or are you set up for failure. Demanding careers, or any outside distraction, should be prioritized between you and value assigned. What's more important and satisfying, your career and the money, power, status, it provided; or being happy and content to serve as his on demand chef? Eliminate the distractions that inhibit you from doing the most important thing in your life. What the life priority is and what the distractions are is the decision to be made through the discussion

Once deciding upon any relationship dynamic as many encumbrances as possible inhibiting the success of that relationship should be eliminated from both partner's lives. Some of those decisions are difficult on either end of the flogger, but pragmatically necessary. Of course the other key ingredient is honesty. Putting someone first in your life ahead of an established job, long term friends, family commitments; requires a determined and honest self assessment. You also better trust that the other side of the partnership is ready to make that same commitment; or that resentment you have currently when thinking cooking will fester even more.



Andalusite -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/20/2009 7:23:05 PM)

Something that helped me in this area, though I didn't have an aversion to housework, was him doing some light physical play *while* I was doing the work. Taking a few seconds to give my hair a yank, bite my neck, etc. helped put me in a submissive frame of mind, rather than just doing it to be helpful or out of a sense of duty.



Wheldrake -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/21/2009 1:18:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

If it's about gender roles pervasively--  i.e., you have no penis, so you *will* do the housework, period--  the guy is simply not a match. That's beyond my ability to tolerate, too. But the tricky thing/gray area for me is.....  if he opts to have a slave in his life, why would he not farm out tasks that are not congenial to him, to whatever extent he can do so without mucking up the relationship as a whole?  I'm very conscious that if I were a Domme, I'd be farming out exactly the same things.


This seems to go to the heart of the issue. Is he expecting you to take on the bulk of the housework because you're a woman, or because you're his slave? If it's because you're a woman, then his concept of gender roles is probably incompatible with yours at a fairly fundamental level. If it's because you're his slave, and he simply feels entitled to put you to work in any way he sees fit, then your gender is incidental. You might consider asking him (or asking yourself) whether he would try to burden a vanilla girlfriend with more than her share of the housework, and whether he has a problem with dominant women giving male slaves the same tasks he wants to give you. The answers to those two questions should tell you a lot about what's really going on.

My submissive male perspective might help here. When I visit my Mistress, I probably end up doing more than my share of the housework, but that seems entirely fitting given our respective roles. She owns my ass, and she's within her rights to send me to the kitchen to watch dishes while she sits back in front of the TV. It's a slave-loaded thing rather than a gender-loaded thing. So if you find yourself feeling that visceral "hell I will!" reaction to being put to work around the house, perhaps you can console yourself with the thought that lots of submissive men around the world are probably following similar orders at exactly the same moment. We're all in the same exciting, sometimes gruelling boat, regardless of gender.

I don't actually mind the housework too much, by and large, but Mistress has certainly been known to give me tasks that make me grit my teeth and want to rebel. For one thing, English isn't her first language, so she sometimes orders me to proofread things she's written. More often and not, this is slow and deathly boring, and it takes some effort to force myself to stay focused and not give up in frustration. However, the experience of having to obey even when I absolutely don't want to is part of what I signed up for, and part of what makes my slavery feel genuine and worthwhile.



daintydimples -> RE: slavery, housework, gender politics, etc. (7/21/2009 1:45:16 PM)

I think the OP's issues are that the little details of day to day living are going to overwhelm here and make her resentful of her Master. And it's my opinion that if she tries to take on everything on her own (housework wise), she's right.

My ideal Master would be one who said: "You are responsible for having dinner on the table at 6:30 PM every evening, how you get it there is up to you."

Now I have choices, pull out some leftovrs, call for take away, cook a 5 course gourmet meal, admit to Master I am entirely overwhelmed and need his assitance if dinner is going to happen this evening. As long as that last choice doesn't happen too often (and with good planning it needn't), this is a domestic responsiblity I can live with and, since I cook well, am suited for.

IMO the chore thing is really something you have to talk about. Don't assume.










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