RE: The Fast Forward Effect.

RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (Full Version)

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CallaFirestormBW -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/24/2009 8:10:04 AM)
I'm going to do a bit of a 'mashup' response here to a couple of comments from Bita and Kia quote: So, how long do you have to know someone before handing out your pin number? How many days before your new unicorn is going to get the access to your bank account or are you going with that automatic trust thing and she already has them? I'm just curious as to how far your trust really extends? If you trust, why do you have to pay attention and be aware? quote: I am frequently perceived by new acquaintances as practicing 'instant intimacy', but that's not what it is. I'm just blunt honest & pretty comfortable revealing all kinds of intimate stuff about myself with relative strangers. In the last few years I've come to realize that many people associate increasing honesty with increasing intimacy & they don't have another contextual framework to hang my intense level of honesty on . . . . . So there's a tendency to experience my brutal honesty as some kind of signifier of deeper relationship, when it's just that I'm very forthwith & revealing . .. As I read through the responses, I realized that, for me, there is really a lot more complexity to my FFE mode than I may have given proper credit for. Like Bita, I am -very- cautious about certain things like finances. I have documentation about my -personal- finances that my companion of over a decade and the heads of cooperative Bladewing households will get if anything ever happens to me, but even -they- don't have the PIN numbers to my personal accounts... and I don't have theirs, and it wouldn't occur to me to ask for them. Our household account, on the other hand, is on a "need to know" basis. The people who have the information to access that account are the people who -need- it to pay the household bills, access money for food, etc. No need, no info. So my trust of a newcomer in the household isn't even close to instantaneous. There would have to be a lot of 'proving' in place before a newcomer would be entrusted with that information (and which, btw, has also given us a great deal of challenge when doing things like hiring accountants!!!) -and- they would have to have a 'need to know', which would mean that some aspect of their service would require that they have X account information and can do Y with it -- and what information they got would be limited by those boundaries. Heck, only the Matriarch and Patriarch have some of the info for the household, and it will always stay that way. When I turned the Matriarchy over to SR, I turned certain financial records with it, gave up the access information to those accounts, and she changed them, and that's the way we're comfortable running things. If anything happened to her, I'm 2nd in command and I'd get the information, but until then, it is her bailiwick. While it may be hard for some folks to grasp, there are people in our household who NEVER will have access to our financial information, and so mote it be. If they have to have full financial disclosure to feel like they can make a commitment, then clearly, they're not destined for our household. On the other hand, like Kia, we tend to share a great deal of information up front that some people seem to think is extremely private/intimate/excessively honest, and some folks -do- interpret that as 'rushing' intimacy. To me, I just think that it's important for people to know, up front, what they're getting involved with. I am not a big fan of surprises, I guess, and definitely don't want them in areas that might come back to bite me on the butt. So I share a lot of information pretty quickly. I also don't tend to wear a lot of fancy masks. I tend to be pretty bare-faced about my life and who I am as a person, and I think that it is awkward for some folks, because they only get that direct with people that they know well. So on the one hand, yes, I'm comfortable with and FFE is often active in the relationships I'm involved in -- but like I said in the earlier post, the point between 'getting started' and 'fully developed' is a pretty long hallway--and not every door is going to be unlocked for every person, regardless of how long I've known them or how close or beloved they are, and that's just one of the interesting quirks of being involved with someone like me. Dame Calla

couldbemage -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/25/2009 9:17:51 PM)
On an emotional basis, I am completely comfortable moving shockingingly fast. I can also handle taking things slow, if I need to. What are slow movers protecting themselves from? So long as you don't make a financial or legal commitment, you only lose time while gaining an experience. If you invest more time, you have more to lose if things don't work out. Some of the concerns blow my mind. I can't imagine not showing up for a date, even with a casual friend. Or lying about my job or life. Why bother? If someone doesn't like me for me, fuck 'em. The grape stealing test made me laugh. This is a bdsm site. I'm evil. I hurt people for fun. I also drive ridiculously fast, hang from hooks, and have been an unrepentent thief. GRAPES!?

Padriag -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/25/2009 9:40:25 PM)
You won't get any shit from on this... just some thoughts an observations. quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah If you are NOT a fan of the Fast Forward Effect, I am not so curious as to why you aren’t but rather what keeps you taking things slow? I would think that experinces are at the root here. I'm reminded of something Nietzsche wrote,"Those who are slow to knowledge assume slowness belongs to knowledge." I think the principle applies here as well. That those who are against it, are so because in their lives... their experiences... the most often rewarding path to a happy relationship was slow. That in turn they see any quicker route as being too risky, too likely to fail. quote: If you are into the Fast Forward Effect I guess I most want to know what you perceive as being the purpose? I see it as cutting out a whole lot of uneasiness and just moving to the stick-work frame of what you will eventually get to anyway. I like the idea that this allows me to give things a Trial By Fire, because if we can’t make it through the getting to know you phase how in the hell are we going to get through the really hard shit? I won't say I'm "into" it, but I am open to it. There too, that has been colored by my experiences. While some of my previous happy relationships came from a slow process... so too did some that came from the proverbial "love at first sight". Both have been rewarding for me enough that I see potential merit in either. But too, I also see risk in both. On the one hand moving more slowly means less risk in some regards, one has more time to see potentially disastrous flaws before any serious commitments have been made... its easier to "eject" before the whole thing "crashes and burns." But on the other hand, moving quickly can also more quickly reveal problems and resolve things one way or the other. I think the real deciding factor in which is likely to produce a good result has more to do with how well a person understands the either dynamic and is able to employ it towards a happy relationship. In short... I go with what works for me at the time. If I met someone on here, and I felt the circumstances were right, I could see them moving in a week after first contact... or it might take months or a year. For me that depends more on their personality, and how they mesh with mine.

stella41b -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 12:52:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah If you are NOT a fan of the Fast Forward Effect, I am not so curious as to why you aren’t but rather what keeps you taking things slow? I guess I'm neither because my overall life strategy is to 'catch the moment' and each and every person with whom I'm likely to form a relationship with anyway is going to be completely different from everyone else. I go by emotional cues and signals, and sometimes you have to move fast to catch the moment, and other times you have to just sit back and wait. Sometimes that moment doesn't come at all, and sometimes it isn't what you expect. But then again I perceive the success of a relationship to be not its longevity, but the degree of fulfillment experienced mutually by both in the relationship from beginning to end. That way you not only build up happy memories which you can recall, but you also leave them behind.

KnightofMists -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 1:35:52 AM)
speed is relative.... I have never seen a measuring tool that allows one measure a relationship that develops fast or slow or at the speed limit. It's completely a preference thing to me as simple as it is complex. I can slip into the sack in seconds with a hot babe..... but she may never learn my phone number It really comes down to what I want from the relationship with a person of what I will want to share. However, I have learned if you have nothing to risk... well you give and do anything since nothing is at risk. If my bank account is empty... what does it matter if I give them my pin number? How much trust am I really demonstrating? It seems to me that if there is nothing at risk.... trust is very easy to give. I think the really value of trust is when much is at risk when trust is given. Kyra moved away from everything she knows... but if she had no value to what she left behind.... was it really that big of a deal. The truth is.. she dislikes florida ... in particular... the heat of florida. The only thing she actually left behind was family and the security of a very good paying job. In the end.... she transfer her security of job to the security with life with me and alandra... not unlike transfering her bank accounts from one bank to another. but she did live her family behind... she left the ease of access to them and will never have that again. She risked that! for something she wanted and valued more! To me... the speed of it happening was irrelevant.... it is more important to value appropriately the transaction that occurred. She made an investment into our relationship and expects the risk/reward ratio to payout in an appropriate manner. BUT..... what if things don't work out... well she moves back and presto she is with family again... but living in a place of a very High Cost of living without a job in a place that she dislikes. mmmmm sounds like some motivation to make sure this investment pays out for her. But... you know it's not just what a person risks behind them... it's also opportunity costs ahead of them. If I wouldn't of spent the time to develop the relationship.. fly to florida etc etc etc..... would I be enjoying the life I am right now? Even today... if I don't take steps to do what is best for the relationship each and every day.... what am I going to lose out in my future if this relationship should fail. I see sooooooooo much to gain in my life because of this relationship. I think that is what motivates people. When you have an investment... you want to have the payout as quickly as possible! Get all the best out of it that it has to offer. I was ready much sooner to have Kyra in my home than she was ready to be there..... but immigration was alot slower than both of us wanted. Sometimes you know it's a great investment... but it's like scraping together the downpayment to a house... so you can get that house of your dreams.

Padriag -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 2:08:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b I go by emotional cues and signals, and sometimes you have to move fast to catch the moment, and other times you have to just sit back and wait. Sometimes that moment doesn't come at all, and sometimes it isn't what you expect. Amen to that. Funny how sometimes those things you didn't expect turn out to be the best of all.

BitaTruble -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 5:27:39 AM)
quote: have been an unrepentent thief. Why'd you stop? Are you repenting now? quote: GRAPES!? If grapes are okay to steal, then so are apples. If apples are okay to steal, then why not radios, tv's, cars. You have a problem with someone stealing your car? It's not the price tag, it's the action and action shows character. You stopped being a thief.. or, at least an unrepentent thief.. you might still be a thief but you just feel bad about it, I don't know. I'd need some time to figure it out. Go figure.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 5:41:09 AM)
quote: GRAPES!? Interesting -- see, I've always solved this issue by shopping at places that let me test the grapes, because I think it is a horrific rip-off to get a bunch of grapes home after having paid good money for them and have them taste like sugared cardboard. Some might think of me as a thief. -I- think ethics swing both ways on this one -- if a store is selling something that could be good or bad, but you can't tell from the packaging, and they give you no opportunity to find out which you're paying for, to me -that- is unethical as well. Testing a grape to find out if it is ripe, sweet, etc., isn't unethical. Neither is asking the produce guy for a slice of an apple, or asking to feel the texture of those 1000 thread-count sheets before you drop $75 on a sheet. So in order to know whether this was an issue of faulty ethics, you'd have to know the person well enough to know -why- they took the grape, what the store's or market's policy was on testing the grapes, and have to have sorted out your own ethical boundaries on issues like this -- people make these things sound -so- clear-cut, when the entire world is comprised of ever-shifting, ever-swirling shades of grey. I would never take something like this out of context in a developing relationship, though it might provide fodder for a discussion of an individual's ethical boundaries. DC

LaTigresse -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 5:50:08 AM)
For myself, I don't have any list to follow or set time line, regardless of type of relationship, whether it be friendship, work, or whatever. I go entirely by my own gut instincts. They are stellar and I only have ever regreted when I didn't listen to them. As an example, this site and these forums. There are people on here that I would easily extend a welcome into my home and personal life. I may not even know their name, but I would feel completely comfortable giving them mine, my phone number and home address. There are others I wouldn't even dream of it. Something many of us probably feel also. The difference is, the identities. Many on my comfortable list, would shock the hell out of a few. One in particular, who no longer haunts these boards, had panties bunched all over the place and was described as someone they would never EVER want to meet. The very idea made them quake in their stilettos and not in a good way. This person has had my real name for well over a year. We have shared many emails and in them, personal information. With the information this person has, they could be standing outside my door on any given day, if they chose. My gut gave me excellent feedback on this person and I am confident I have nothing to worry about. Another thing someone mentioned, is what is your gain to loss ratio. What have you got to gain by moving forward and what have you got to lose? I have a number of people I care deeply for that could possibly, be very negatively affected by me opening my life door up to the wrong people. If my gut has even the slightest quiver that I should proceed with caution, I listen. I will NOT bring negative drama into the lives of people I love for my own personal gain. If I do not feel 100% that a person will respect the relationships I already have, they will not be given a chance to have one with me. Let alone be made a part of the larger family organism. When and if, someone comes along that will enhance my life, they will be welcome with open arms. There is no time line to determine that. I think the key is to remain open to possibilities. I have benefited immensely from just keeping an open heart and mind. Letting things flow organically. Not having any preconceived ideas of what "should be" but instead what "could be".

BitaTruble -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 6:02:02 AM)
quote: Interesting -- see, I've always solved this issue by shopping at places that let me test the grapes, because I think it is a horrific rip-off to get a bunch of grapes home after having paid good money for them and have them taste like sugared cardboard. Some might think of me as a thief. -I- think ethics swing both ways on this one -- if a store is selling something that could be good or bad, but you can't tell from the packaging, and they give you no opportunity to find out which you're paying for, to me -that- is unethical as well. Testing a grape to find out if it is ripe, sweet, etc., isn't unethical. Neither is asking the produce guy for a slice of an apple, or asking to feel the texture of those 1000 thread-count sheets before you drop $75 on a sheet. So in order to know whether this was an issue of faulty ethics, you'd have to know the person well enough to know -why- they took the grape, what the store's or market's policy was on testing the grapes, and have to have sorted out your own ethical boundaries on issues like this -- people make these things sound -so- clear-cut, when the entire world is comprised of ever-shifting, ever-swirling shades of grey. DC If a store is allowing the practice, that's not stealing. If you ask and are given, that's not stealing. If you buy the bunch of grapes, take them home and they are bad, you have the option of returning them for a refund. I don't see the shade of gray here. Spin it how you want, doesn't change the fact. Someone is taking something they haven't earned which someone else put forth the time and effort to produce probably to feed and care for their own family. One grape.. what's the big deal? Indeed. It's just a grape. Take one, and the rest of the 6+ billion people can take one, too. It's no big deal. What's 6 billion grapes between friends, right? Oh, and don't forget to multiply that out by the number of times 'one' grape has been taken by each individual. ::shrugs:: Like I said, it's a matter of character. It's not like I haven't heard the spin before .. but I don't have to like it and I certainly don't have to sugarcoat it or accept some sort of weird justification for it just because it's only a grape. It's not stealing a grape and Bill Clinton didn't have sex because it depends on what the definition of 'is' is.. yeah, right. Meh, enough of this highjack. I'm sorry, Steel. I'm done.

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 7:04:34 AM)
There's nothing wrong with the FastForward effect nor taking things slow. What is important is that both people are together at the same speed or pace. That's my perspective on the matter.

TheOtherKat -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 12:55:21 PM)
I am very, very conflicted on this subject, and I'm very glad you brought it up. I often see these Fast Forward Relationships, and when they fail, I automatically think, "Well, it's your own fault. You didn't take the time to really get to know the person, and see who they really are, and if you were even compatible emotionally and mentally." I do think that it's very easy to say and do the right things for the first few months, and very hard to show your true colors, so that it's very difficult to truly know someone in the first few months, especially with the blinders of the "honeymoon phase." I also think it's easier to manipulate in your own mind what you see of someone during this time to suit what you'd like them to be. However, in practice, I always tend to find myself engaging in these relationships. They usually crash and burn, however, save very few. This does not negate the feelings I may have had for this people, but it does make me a little skittish about succumbing to this (not that it helps me avoid it, necessarily).

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 1:07:27 PM)
There's nothing wrong with FastForward Effect relationships themselves. Regardless of the amount of time you take getting to know somebody, things can crash and burn. You can take a long time getting to know somebody, think you know them, and then move forward with the relationship, only to find out that they behave a lot differently. In some regards if you fast Track things along, and it crashes and burns you've wasted a lot less time and have not invested a great deal of time in taking things slow. At least with FastForward effect if it fails you can move onto somebody new and not waste so much time. There are Pro's and Con's to taking things either fast or slow.

couldbemage -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/26/2009 4:16:17 PM)
Missed the evil part, didn't you? I am fucking evil. Why would I feel bad about stealing? Sigh. I'm honest though. Not beacause of some moral code, but rather because it doesn't matter. When I tell people the truth, they love me for it. ...and I still don't see what going slow protects you from. You learn so much more about a person spending the weekend together than you do during a long series of dates. Better to find out quikly that someone isn't for you than waste months that could have been spent finding a better match.

DemonKia -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/27/2009 12:18:31 AM)
FR, after continuing read thru One of the things I'm hearing here is this notion of 'wasted' or 'lost' time on relationships that 'failed' . . .. . For me, there is no wasted or lost time, nor relationships that were failures . . . . I learn from everything, when it comes to gleaning data I'm like a baleen whale sucking up vast tonnages of water to filter the krill into my digestive system . . . . . . & I have significant processing needs, ruminating on the diverse information I collect & how & if it connects with other things . . . . & it takes time for my associational brain to collate & report back to me, I know this well from mucho previous experience with my cognition . .. . If I date someone or have whatever relationship with someone for whatever length of time & we then decide to part ways, I've generally learned bunches about me, the other, relationship, & so on . . . . & I view all of that as another step forward towards whatever the next is . . . . . In fact, I tend to view all my previous relationships, glories & ugliness & everything in between, as being necessary to being who & where I am now, precursors to the future . . .. .

gypsygrl -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/27/2009 7:16:55 AM)
It depends on how you look at it. We've been building our relationship/expectations slowly over the past year that we've been living together. But, I moved in on a dime. I tend to agree with Lockit's grandmother. You really can't know someone unless you live with them. Or, more accurately, what you find out about someone by dating them is different from what you find out about someone by living with them. Things are working out with Sir, and what I'm finding out by living with him is compatible with what I want to live with (does that make any sense?) but I've moved in on a dime with others and it didn't work so good. So, I moved out on a dime. The trick is being clear about what's going on and not getting sidetracked by social expectations (that moving in implies a life-time married like comittment). Just because I agree to move in with someone doesn't mean I think I know everything about them etc or that our relationship is firmly established and we have everything together. Hell, when I moved in with him, I wasn't sure I liked Sir. I really couldn't make up my mind. Precisely because I didn't really know him...because we hadn't really lived together. And, how can you really know someone and if you're compatible for 24/7 unless you spend 24/7 with them? Commonsense has it that you date for a long time, while you're getting to know someone. Sometimes commonsense doesn't make sense.

singsweetly4U -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/27/2009 6:16:19 PM)
My reason for going slow is simple. My first D/s relationship went very fast, and we hadn't known each other long enough to build up trust. He was constantly accusing me of doing things I wasn't doing and I did the same in return. Also, I've noticed that if someone tries to go fast with me, they tend to get turned off by my strong nature. So many people expect submissive and doormat to be synonymous and it's so false! I say to people off the bat, I'm not giving up my hopes and dreams for you, because if you're the one for me, then my hopes and dreams become intertwined with yours. I think speeding up lessens the get to know you process. That's all.

Ambyant -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/28/2009 9:33:03 AM)
After reading ~ Fast forward effect - especially here. especially online. I don't 'scene' by phone or cam the first time I talk to someone, maybe not the first week, not even to see if we 'click'. That is the most common Fast forward I know. I have a lot of Q&A that must be treated sincerely and it takes time. The screen names that push for more immediately tend to be just that - screen names only. and totally not worth My time.

SteelofUtah -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/28/2009 10:00:39 AM)
BitaTruble, I first want to thank you for the last WEEK of mental inventory when you threw me with the PIN number Trust Question. First LOTS of things flooded out and most of them were trite concepts that would not quite disprove what you have stated, My concept of trust isn't static like that. I trust my Mother with my child but even she doesn't know my Bank PIN. Trust and Stupidity come to mind when you asked what you asked. and I feel it is important to illustrate what I mean. I trust anyone I meet not to take me for granted, not to abuse my friendship, my confidence, or my good nature all in the name of trust. I am not Stupid however and do not open myself to certain possible errors of judgement. I have seen GOOD and Trust worthy people do very WRONG things when confronted with the Opportunity. I know and believe in my heart that people are basically good they just get misguided at times and make bad decisions when confronted with temptation. I wish to offer the following examples I would trust my Boss with my Pin Number, and would have done so the first day I started working here. He is just the kind of guy who you can easily trust with such things. I would not trust my Kid Brother or my Mother with my PIN Number, My Brother because he is a Creature of Opportunity and although he may not do it the first time he would wait until I was comfortable and he needed something and I was flush and he would help himself. My Mother on the otherhand would use it to find out what my expenses are and then would use that against me anytime I complain about things being rough such as "Fell if you hadn't gone out to dinner last month at that fancy restraunt you would have the money this month for the Mechanic Bill" just the way my Mother is. The Point in all this is Yes I Trust Caryn, I trust her around my child, I trust her with my wife and I trust her with my heart. If I needed something and I was unable to get to the store or the ATM on my own YES I would trust her with it and if I got Burned well that is one of those things that teach us the bitter lessons of life. I still do not believe that someone can EARN trust, you simply give it to them and hope for the best and when they don't break that trust it becomes easier and easier to relinquish the dread of giving the trust. I believe that in Fast Forward Effect Type Relationships all I am doing is getting past the BULLSHIT and Stalling for time and making an active effort. Guess what People lie, getting to know someone can just be the process they choose to get what they are really after and you know I am more willing to get hurt then I am spend 4 months pussy-footing around the idea of what might happen, I think lets just go find out. Sure there are some relationships were had a simply taken another month to get to know them I might have seem some things coming that really might have saved me some heartache.... That being said I really don't want to save myself from LEARNING and sometimes all you can do to learn about things is to live them. Someone brought up a good point asking about the discussing of WASTED Time and going thorugh things for nothing and I agree that this is not the case, it isn't for nothing and nothing was wasted it is just a new beginning and hopefully a new lesson learned. Hope that answers most of what you were getting at and thank you for the Mental Work out it was interesting to take that inventory. Steel

sirsholly -> RE: The Fast Forward Effect. (7/28/2009 10:06:49 AM)
quote: If you are NOT a fan of the Fast Forward Effect, I am not so curious as to why you aren’t but rather what keeps you taking things slow? i could be feeling the chemistry too, but if he went from "hello, nice to meet you" to "i want to meet your family" i would take a huge step back. It is a "my space" issue. Until i trust him...he is not getting in.

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