RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (Full Version)

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DemonKia -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/24/2009 10:31:30 AM)

FR, after read thru

I tend to see the ideal of kink as what happens when human sexuality, creativity, & / or innate tendencies to hierarchiate* come together & are played with explicitly . . . . .

*Yep, my own coinage, aka pecking-order behaviors . . . . .



eyesopened -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/24/2009 11:12:13 AM)

Some of them want to use you, some of them want to be used by you.
Some of them want to abuse you, some of them want to be abused.

Sweet dreams are made of this, who am I to disagree?

Everybody's looking for something.



roland23 -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/24/2009 11:18:44 AM)

This is a fascinating conversation. It is heartening to know that there are others who see BDSM as a way of life, as a way of relating to the world. Unfortunately, many people on Collarme think that BDSM is just about sex and that it can ONLY occur within a long-term committed relationship. They seem to be looking for a husband, wife, boyfriend or girlfriend. 



LadyPact -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/24/2009 11:27:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

For us, BDSM is an acronym.  That is all.
 
the.dark.


I Concur.

Pirate


I agree.  BDSM to Me is bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism.  M/s or D/s dynamics are something different.



Padriag -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/24/2009 11:29:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

Which leads me more to think that BDSM is essentially a study in human nature.

What do you think?

Been saying that for a long time.  Its one of the reasons I look to things like behavioral psychology to help me better understand the dynamic, submissives, etc, even try to be a better more effective dominant.  So much of this is really about what is in people's heads and learning to both deal with that and tap into it.



TurboJugend -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/24/2009 12:18:42 PM)

Perhaps we should say...a persons nature.
Human nature is to complex to handle for 1 person ;)

btw a "normal" relation has the same not? Even raising a child is a study.



lally2 -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/24/2009 2:15:29 PM)

 
i have to tell you that right now i am so ebullant, so high and happy and content with everything to do with myself because i have finally sussed this all out (for me anyway)

bdsm has never just been kink for me, it has always  been about who i am.  but only recently have i realised that ive been concentrating on trait of need to lead me by the nose.  that yes, as you say, my trait as a sub has dictated my choices before ever considering me as the person.  my urges to submit have been stronger than my common sense all too often.

im just a woman who happens to be submissive and if i find Him or not doesnt actually matter any more.  but what im never gonna do again is allow my trait as a sub to take precidence over everything else.



Apocalypso -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/24/2009 2:15:54 PM)

I think BDSM is arguably a study in human nature, but the details vary depending on what aspect you're talking about.

One one hand, you have BDSM as a practise.  Or a sexual orientation/sexual preference.  (I'm deliberately avoiding the latter debate).  That's about human nature, but mostly on the level of individuals and interpersonal relationships within those individuals.  It's probably closest to the remit of psychology.

The other, quite different, way of looking at BDSM is looking at it as a scene/community/lifestyle etc.  On the whole, that's more about group dynamics rather than the individual relationships within the group.  It's pretty clearcut to me that the BDSM community is a subculture, in the sociological sense of the word.  With various sub-subcultures contained within and possibly even a handful of actual countercultures. 



rideemwet -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/24/2009 2:33:57 PM)

quote:


Generalisations do not rock.


Isn't that a generalization about generalizations?  and perhaps a case in point that generalizations have some application even if there are associated pitfalls?

(edited for font)



stella41b -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/24/2009 9:36:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

 
bdsm has never just been kink for me, it has always  been about who i am.  but only recently have i realised that ive been concentrating on trait of need to lead me by the nose.  that yes, as you say, my trait as a sub has dictated my choices before ever considering me as the person.  my urges to submit have been stronger than my common sense all too often.



This is exactly it. Now I realize that BDSM is just an acronym which can be taken to mean just about anything you wish it to mean, even if it means something to you different to how other people understand it, and I phrased it that way just to make a specific point.

A point which lally expressed a little better and in which I find that focussing on that one trait - be it a tendency to dominate or a tendency to submit in an interpersonal relationship - almost invariably tends to lead one astray, and much of that leading tends to be in the general direction of generalisations.

However I find that it is that tendency (to submit or dominate) which is just one aspect or component element of the whole person and that I'm never going to understand that tendency until I gain some degree of intimate knowledge of the person as a whole and also know whether we can relate to each other or not.

I know that this isn't groundbreaking or earth-shattering as a discovery, it's not rocket science and in fact part of me wonders here whether I am in fact doing not much more than stating the obvious.

But then again is it? Yes there have been times when in getting to know someone I placed particular emphasis on my tendency to submit or my own emotional fulfillment gained through service just as I have also exaggerated someone else's tendency to dominate when getting to know someone. However the mystery for me still remains why I did this or thought this way.

I am also still approached by potential dominants who appear to think that my willingness to communicate or interact with them implies that I accept almost immediately a certain dynamic which isn't the case. My best and most successful relationships have all been with dominants who waited and took the time and trouble to get to know me as a person and allowed me to do the same before moving onto whatever dynamic was intended, and as such I felt much more comfortable in my submission and in my service to them.

Kink has never really featured all that much for me. I can attend a munch or club or play party and play with the best of them but now, even more so than before, what is most important is who and how I relate to them.

I guess this is my own individual way of settling, in that the lowest common denominator for me here is friendship and that friendship and support which exists in 'the community' (my community) where I get to know some amazing people and this is where now I exert most of my efforts - in getting to know people. It remains to be seen whether a relationship will come out of this, but I'm quite happy and comfortable with this and how things stand at the moment.



RCdc -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/25/2009 2:01:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rideemwet

quote:


Generalisations do not rock.


Isn't that a generalization about generalizations?  and perhaps a case in point that generalizations have some application even if there are associated pitfalls?

(edited for font)



No it is not a generalisation.  It is a fact.
Generalisations are based on groups which exclude a minority for a majority.  My statement is as it relates to an individual.  Me.  As I am both a minority and the majority, that makes it all inclusive.
 
the.dark.



Prinsexx -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/25/2009 3:03:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
.
Which leads me more to think that BDSM is essentially a study in human nature.

What do you think?

Well bdsm is a very useful acronym to sum up my essential nature, yes so I have to agree.
And as a corollary of that, whenever I have been expected to quash bdsm in my life I have been going against my essential nature.
And I can also say that my experience of living both within my essential nature AND being able to objectify it has enabled me to feel increasingly at ease about who I am, to feel unified and to be able to present a holistic picture or persona of myself to others: family, friends and lovers.
I'm not saying I am wholly 'there' yet because getting 'there' implies end game and I won't be sorting that one out until I am as reasonable informed as is possible that it's time to die. That will be a spiritual process. But I operate out from my essential nature in terms of:
service
sexuality
submission and
spirituality.
So ssss might be a better acronym than bdsm for me. Bdsm does sometimes feel like an acronym of a Conformity Club of which I am not a member.



Prinsexx -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/25/2009 3:09:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rideemwet

quote:

ORIGINAL: TurboJugend

every relation is a study in human nature
not really scientific...but more emotion driven


Slightly off topic, college course in psychology,  Quiz one:
Q? What is the definition of psychology?
A:  The scientific study of the behavior of human and non-human animals.
I left off the word scientific and got it wrong initially, but accused the professor of being "defensive" and he conceded.


Q How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?

A It depends: is the light bulb is willing to change?



DemonKia -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/25/2009 3:09:46 AM)

Aww, I'm gonna stand up in defense of that particular acronym. I'm not usually inclined towards acronyms, but that one is so compact, containing so much . .. . . B.ondage & D.iscipline; D.ominance & S.ubmission; & S.adoM.asochism, all neatly coiled into those four little letters . . . .. As soon as I was exposed to it, I felt a certain fondness for it's efficiency . . . . .

[:D]



TurboJugend -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/25/2009 3:18:41 AM)

Generalizations are not bad...it doesn't even mean..people are the same..it means..people have something in common ( and therefor leaves room to an individual to be unique)

not adressed to anyone in particular



Prinsexx -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/25/2009 3:19:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rideemwet

quote:

I think you have to have some knowledge or innate feel for human nature to be a decent human.


Having worked around people with Asperger's disorder, who have trouble relating to other people's feelings, I won't argue with that.

Somewhat off topic:
I had thought to introduce a reference to Asperger's on the emotional baggage thread but now is as good a time as any.
I think (as someone who has two members of my family with Asperger and as someone who has worked professionally and creatively with the same) that many of their problems of relating are problems rooted in society and not within the 'condition' or essential nature itself. Many pay top dollar to become happy-shiny-Buddha-orange-emotionally-released-free-from-baggage.
Their problems are a failure of our emotionally charged communication.



shimada -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/25/2009 3:55:31 AM)

The art to be a owner. Owners know more about the body of his slave than heselfe. If you get a education in the torture you learn how the body works, where are sensetive points, the point that gives pain, what was all able to do with a body without to injur him. How pain works on the mind, open the borders to the deepest parts inside of the soule. IF one was able to thrust the owner, was ready to let themselfe fall, be helpless in the hand of the onwer it will be comes deeper to himselfe and to the feelings to the owner. My trainer have told me a real good slavetraining is like alchemie, the art to improof things, make it better. Good trained slaves was more succesfull in this worl. Why? Slaves are more free in the things they are doing, dont habe problem with wrong moral or are easy to hit. Like this what one slave have means with what should other peoples can do with me after i have learnd to wait and take pain for my onwer, the one realy importand in my life.
But to comes to this point, we all must goes over the point where the game is. IF you was realy hungry on this world, than are play arround or sessions like to eat a tofuburger against the hunger on a realy good steak. It dont satisfact on the end, put perhaps it can frustrate.



RCdc -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/25/2009 4:06:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
Somewhat off topic:
I had thought to introduce a reference to Asperger's on the emotional baggage thread but now is as good a time as any.
I think (as someone who has two members of my family with Asperger and as someone who has worked professionally and creatively with the same) that many of their problems of relating are problems rooted in society and not within the 'condition' or essential nature itself. Many pay top dollar to become happy-shiny-Buddha-orange-emotionally-released-free-from-baggage.
Their problems are a failure of our emotionally charged communication.


I have family and friends with aspergers.  I always sit and scratch my head when people suggest that it's just the people with aspergers who have the problems with communicating and feelings.
 
the.dark.



RCdc -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/25/2009 4:09:06 AM)

FR
How is BDSM a study of human nature, when BDSM is human nature?
 
the.dark.



TurboJugend -> RE: BDSM = a study in human nature? (7/25/2009 4:18:07 AM)

quote:

when BDSM is human nature?


that suggest that every human likes BDSM, I would add  "can be part of"



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