RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo

RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (Full Version)

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ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/25/2009 6:37:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: Its no different than the military having plans for invading every fucking country in the world, including Canada, if it became necessary. As a bit of an aside, I had a friend who worked in military intelligence and later with one of our intelligence services (I can't recall which of the two, the acronyms are nearly identical) and he told me that there is a plan in place for the US to invade Canada with the cooperation of the Canadian military. This plan apparently dates from the 1950s and was to be used in the case of a communist take over in Canada. Communist takeover of the whole country, or would just a takeover of the health care system qualify?

MarsBonfire -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 9:24:04 AM)
@gift4mistress, Just in case you haven't noticed, this thread IS about the Bush Admin. fucking over the Constitution. You can say we're losing sight of the important things if you like, but to my mind, getting us back to adherance to the Constiution takes far greater priority over the other issues you mentioned. If we don't play by our own rules, then we are corrupted, and become something not worth following.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 9:34:33 AM)
But they did'nt overturn the constitution here mars they only debated whether it was worth it for reasons of national security and decided against it, I think that actually sounds like quite a healthy thing for a government to do.

rulemylife -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 10:33:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gift4mistress OMG BUSH THOUGHT ABOUT SENDING TROOPS IN TO BUFFALO!!!! WE ARE ALLLLL GOINNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG TO DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! FORGET ABOUT THE TRILLIONS IN DEBT WE ARE IN, OUR CRAPPY HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, OUR DETERIATING COUNTRY, AND THE FACT THAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS NOT FOLLOWING THE CONSTITUTION. NAH LETS ALL WORRY ABOUT WHAT COULD/WOULDA/SHOULDA HAPPENED. THIS IS JUST A PLOY BY THE MEDIA TO SIDETRACT YOU FROM WHAT IS GOING ON JUST LIKE HOW THE MEDIA IGNORED THE SHITTY ECONOMY DURING MICHAEL JACKSON DEATH BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE MADE OBAMA LOOK BAD. I see, so it's really all a liberal media conspiracy to support the liberal President. By the way, is your caps key stuck?

thishereboi -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 11:41:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire @gift4mistress, Just in case you haven't noticed, this thread IS about the Bush Admin. fucking over the Constitution. You can say we're losing sight of the important things if you like, but to my mind, getting us back to adherance to the Constiution takes far greater priority over the other issues you mentioned. If we don't play by our own rules, then we are corrupted, and become something not worth following. Actually it is about the Bush admin talking about it. But yea I can see where you think that is more important than things like health care or the unemployment rate. So, what's Sarah up to? And what happened to all those jobs OB promised us?

DomImus -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 11:42:26 AM)
Bush bashing - one way to deflect attention away from the fact that the electorate fucked up and elected a junior senator from Illinois to the position of president.

slvemike4u -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 12:36:35 PM)
As opposed to a tired old man and a wacky soon to be a quitter Gov.from Alaska?I fail to see the fuck up...seems the electorate did a fine job.....though anything less,considering the starkness of the choice..would have been deeply disturbing.

rulemylife -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 12:49:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus Bush bashing - one way to deflect attention away from the fact that the electorate fucked up and elected a junior senator from Illinois to the position of president. Really? Is that what this is about? We should just let bygones be bygones and not talk about the abuses of power in the Bush administration?

Starbuck09 -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 1:07:48 PM)
But this wasn't an abuse of power rule, it was only a discussion about a possible contingency for a delicate situation that was discarded.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 1:21:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 But this wasn't an abuse of power rule, it was only a discussion about a possible contingency for a delicate situation that was discarded. If he violates the Constitution by using federal troops to enforce the law, it's an abuse of power.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 1:26:03 PM)
I understand that Panda i'm just saying he did'nt actually do it he only discussed it. I'm sure plenty of ideas are debated which would seem outageous to us but they have to cover every angle, that's all.

Arpig -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 1:27:13 PM)
I'm with Starbuck on this one, more of a positive for Bush than a negative.

rulemylife -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 1:27:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Document till your balls turn blue. If they were "clearly illegal" there would be prosecutions. The vindictiveness of the left wing ensures that. Well, one would hope so, but that's not really the reality is it? Do you think Nixon was innocent? How about those glorious patriots that subverted the law in the Iran-Contra fiasco? The sad fact is we've created a situation where our government employees (and yes, they are our employees, despite all the rhetoric about being "leaders") are able to hold themselves above the law they have sworn an oath to uphold. As far as vindictiveness, Democrats gave Bush far more of a chance than Clinton, and now Obama. The same conservatives that started asking "where's the change" after Obama was in office one month were the ones claiming Bush could not have foreseen 9/11 because he was too new to the job after 8 1/2 months.

rulemylife -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 1:32:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 But this wasn't an abuse of power rule, it was only a discussion about a possible contingency for a delicate situation that was discarded. And how many other of these "discussions" did result in an abuse of power? The point of the article being the general mindset of the administration that they could manipulate the law at their discretion.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 2:10:55 PM)
Hey hey get in there Arpig you know it makes sense![;)] I don't know how many other debated were turned into action which violated your constitution i'm only pointing out that clearly this wasn't one of them. I don't think this is anything to with the mindset of that administration I am sure that all governments no matter what party will have discussions like this, all angles are weighed up before a course of action is decided upon especially in a delicate situation like this. I suspect that this was just a slow news week that's all.

MarsBonfire -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 2:49:21 PM)
Here are the top ten other Bush abuses of Constitutional Power, according to the ACLU website: (just Google Bush/abuses of power/list to be taken to the fully detailed listing. Links to further, even more detailed accounts of the Bush Administrations criminal activities can be found there.) 1. Warrantless Wiretapping. 2. Torture, kidnapping and continued detention without charge or legal representation. 3. The growing surveiliance society 4. Abuse of the PATRIOT ACT. 5. Secrecy- abuse of the "States Secrets Act" 6. The 2005 "Real ID" Act (still pending... be sure to have your "papers" if you want to drive anywhere.) 7. Unconstitutional "No Fly" and "Selectee" lists for travel. 8. Domestic spying programs on peaceful groups such as Quakers, PETA, Greenpeace, SCA, (and probably, several gay rights and BDSM equality groups) 9. Abuse of the "Material Witness" statute, where hundreds of law abiding Muslims in the US were held for six months to a year without charge, or questioning... 10. Attacks on Achedemic Freedom via abuse of the PATRIOT ACT to restrict and censor the movement of educators and free ideas across boarders. Those are just the Letterman-style "top 10"... the ACTUAL number of criminal acts perpetrated by Bush, and the GOP as compiled by the American Civil Liberties Union...(and yes, sometimes aided and abetted by scared, spineless dems) is much, much, much... longer. I suppose they "discussed" these acts against the people of the United States as well... unfortunatley for us, these were the ones they went ahead with. I suppose, by comparison, sending federal troops in to kick in doors in Buffalo, without a warrant, possibly shooting a few people who might get in the way, is small potatoes. I mean, whats a little "home invasion with guns a-blazin'" compared with being able to pull someone off the street because you don't like their religion, and keep them on ice for YEARS on end? (Or starting a war based on lies about WMD that don't exist? [4,000 American dead, 38,000 wounded, 300,000 Iraqi civilians dead, perhaps as many as 6,000,000 displaced and refugee Iraqi.] ) What was that line from Torchwood this last week? "An injury to one is an injury to all?" Yeah, Bull, right. I'm just being mean, and nasty, and say awful, awful things about the GOP who are obviously just knights astride their white horses, right?

rulemylife -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 3:03:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 Hey hey get in there Arpig you know it makes sense![;)] I don't know how many other debated were turned into action which violated your constitution i'm only pointing out that clearly this wasn't one of them. I don't think this is anything to with the mindset of that administration I am sure that all governments no matter what party will have discussions like this, all angles are weighed up before a course of action is decided upon especially in a delicate situation like this. I suspect that this was just a slow news week that's all. Soooo, did you notice that thing about a historic change in U.S. policy that allowed a preemptive war? Or that nagging matter of holding prisoners in a legal limbo where they were neither POW's nor criminals? How about when the law was twisted to the point that torture became "harsh interrogation"? All of these things came out of the types of discussions you are trying to defend.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 3:13:00 PM)
I'm not trying to defend anything the fact is that all contingencies in situations like this are brought to the table and discussed, in this case a course of action that would have violated your constitution was debated and decided against it is a non issue. The three items you have listed are seperate and irrelevant to this one. As I said all governemnt regardless of alignment will discuss these things in delicate matters of which this was one. Talking in a patronising tone to me does not reinforce your argument rule it demeans it. I have spoken to you as an adult never anything else extend me the same courteousy.

Arpig -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 3:13:45 PM)
quote: All of these things came out of the types of discussions you are trying to defend. Yes they did, and in my opinion in those cases the wrong decision was taken. That however does not change the fact that such discussions do, and always have, take place in every government on the planet through all of history. It is in the nature of the beast, what is important is not only how the issue was decided, but to what degree were they willing to go to justify an illegal action. You can be damn sure that some pretty ify shit is brought up in Obama's strategy sessions. Hell he came up with a way of justifying holding Gitmo detainees indefinately regardless of the outcome of their trials. That is something I believe to be illegal, and Obama is doing it as a matter of policy. Already just 7 months in and Obama is trampling on some of the most cherished freedoms and legal doctrines protecting the individual from state tyranny. makes you wonder what sort of ideas he turned down, if that was deemed OK, doesn't it now?

Lorr47 -> RE: Report: Bush Mulled Sending Troops Into Buffalo (7/26/2009 3:23:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire Here are the top ten other Bush abuses of Constitutional Power, according to the ACLU website: (just Google Bush/abuses of power/list to be taken to the fully detailed listing. Links to further, even more detailed accounts of the Bush Administrations criminal activities can be found there.) 1. Warrantless Wiretapping. 2. Torture, kidnapping and continued detention without charge or legal representation. 3. The growing surveiliance society 4. Abuse of the PATRIOT ACT. 5. Secrecy- abuse of the "States Secrets Act" 6. The 2005 "Real ID" Act (still pending... be sure to have your "papers" if you want to drive anywhere.) 7. Unconstitutional "No Fly" and "Selectee" lists for travel. 8. Domestic spying programs on peaceful groups such as Quakers, PETA, Greenpeace, SCA, (and probably, several gay rights and BDSM equality groups) 9. Abuse of the "Material Witness" statute, where hundreds of law abiding Muslims in the US were held for six months to a year without charge, or questioning... 10. Attacks on Achedemic Freedom via abuse of the PATRIOT ACT to restrict and censor the movement of educators and free ideas across boarders. Those are just the Letterman-style "top 10"... the ACTUAL number of criminal acts perpetrated by Bush, and the GOP as compiled by the American Civil Liberties Union...(and yes, sometimes aided and abetted by scared, spineless dems) is much, much, much... longer. I suppose they "discussed" these acts against the people of the United States as well... unfortunatley for us, these were the ones they went ahead with. I suppose, by comparison, sending federal troops in to kick in doors in Buffalo, without a warrant, possibly shooting a few people who might get in the way, is small potatoes. I mean, whats a little "home invasion with guns a-blazin'" compared with being able to pull someone off the street because you don't like their religion, and keep them on ice for YEARS on end? (Or starting a war based on lies about WMD that don't exist? [4,000 American dead, 38,000 wounded, 300,000 Iraqi civilians dead, perhaps as many as 6,000,000 displaced and refugee Iraqi.] ) What was that line from Torchwood this last week? "An injury to one is an injury to all?" Yeah, Bull, right. I'm just being mean, and nasty, and say awful, awful things about the GOP who are obviously just knights astride their white horses, right? Mars, you cannot reason with these people. They rationalize criminal behavior by claiming that the ends always justify the means. If six years ago they perceived a person as a threat, they would assert the "defense of another" as they shot the person in the back of the head today as he ate dinner with his family. Time, space and the reasonable man standard have nothing to do with their thinking. I have always been against the Truth Commission or an independent counsel because it sounded too much like war crime trials. Now, I believe the only way to force them to behave is to throw the main ones in prison but lets start with Cheney. At the very least it will keep them busy and out of mischief. Entertainment Tonight can give daily updates.

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