RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (Full Version)

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LadyNTrainer -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/27/2009 6:32:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brumindubsub
But many pro dommes say they life style and go to munchies etc and go there just to find buisnness contacts so in a way they might not be genuine at all.


Your lack of knowledge and respect for the BDSM community as well as the English language is really quite profound.  The community is a not a very useful place to go looking for clients.  For one, pro dommes caught soliciting at events are generally given the boot, and for good reason - it's not only rude and tasteless, it can place a social group at legal risk.  It's Just Not Done.  Two, the people who go to events are generally the ones who either already have partners or who have good enough social skills to be attractive to partners.  A pro domme can find *far* more clients by posting to Craigslist in ten minutes from her comfy chair at home than she can by spending several hours and money for dinner at the average Munch. 

Typical Munch demographics run something like this.  Average attendance 5 to 35 people, mostly running somewhere in the middle of that range.  More than half will be partnered.  About a quarter to a third will be women, some of whom may also be dommes.  Of the remaining single men, some will be dominant, and some won't be in the market for a pro for various reasons.  That leaves how many potential clients you're trying to impress, at a cost of several hours plus dinner expenses?  Do the math: the answer is not very many.  The cost-benefit ratios just don't work.  Pro dommes who go to Munches and otherwise participate actively in the BDSM community are doing it for social and personal reasons, because professionally it's a losing proposition.

There are more male subs in the scene than there are dommes who have time for them.  The reality is that when I go to a play party, I can generally have my pick of the men who please me most, the ones who are the most intelligent and interesting and sexy, and who offer me what I personally happen to want in a session.   I'm going to enjoy myself with these men, and leave the rest alone, because I only have so much free time and energy to spend and I want to spend it having the maximum amount of fun, just like everybody else who paid to attend the party.

A lot of male subs just don't make the cut for various reasons, and they don't interest me or please me enough to be chosen for my personal pleasure.  It's a tough cut to make - too many subs, too little time.  But since I've decided to hang out a pro domme shingle of sorts, I'm willing to make a professional exchange of my time and energy as a domme to create a fun, useful and motivational scene space for guys who might not otherwise not get the chance to play.  Especially in private for an extended scene with a Domme's full attention focused on them. That's a lot of time and energy, not to mention skill.  Charging for it is a fair and honest transaction.

Apparently to some people, this means that everything else I do is invalid, and it doesn't matter that I'm still going to be cruising the play parties enjoying myself at my own expense with subs who do meet my personal criteria.   And my guess is that the people doing the bitterest carping and complaining are the ones who wouldn't "make the cut" with me - or with many other dommes for that matter.  So they feel compelled to whine that anyone who would be a pro domme is "only" in it for the money, and we're "fake" or "scammers" or bitches whatever other ugly words frustrated men need to hurl.  That's not how it is at all, but they feel better insulting us rather than facing themselves squarely in the mirror. 

It's not ME, disdainfully says the sub who is not chosen.  It's THEM.  The only reason they don't want me is that they're money-hungry bitches, not real at all.  A REAL domme would want me, and be willing to give me her time and energy freely just because I am wonderful and special and handsome and intelligent and desirable. 

A comforting fantasy, and one far more comfortable to believe than the truth of it.  The truth of it is that you are not chosen for a woman's pleasure because you are none of those things.  It's not them, it's you.  But out of anger and frustration, you blame "all the fakes out there".  Alas, this makes you even less desirable.  It may even be the fundamental reason why you are not desirable in the first place.

Ask yourself why you are not often chosen just for a woman's pleasure, and why you are so angry and publicly disrespectful of pro dommes.  Those two things may be quite intimately related, and may well go deeper inside you than you think.



Racquelle -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/27/2009 6:51:32 PM)

A web-designer may do free work for people he or she really likes, but then charge money most of the time.  Is he or she any less of a web-designer when charging?

What about a musician who plays for enjoyment and gets paid?

What about an attorney who will consult for a friend but normally charges?

With so many msubs who approach with a laundry list of desires and n'ary a whiff of interest or concern in the female dominant as a person, why the fuck shouldn't they pay?  Genuine is as genuine does.  Professional dominants who are working seem a great deal more genuine than on-line jerkoffs who are just wanking and whining.



Venatrix -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/27/2009 7:09:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

I will never marry an Irish man..I pray the women may be different.[8|]



I don't think you can blame the Irish for the OP.  His nickname indicates that he might be from Birmingham, England.  The nickname of Birmingham is "Brum," and its inhabitants are known as "Brummies."  The Irish have enough to deal with, without saddling them undeservedly with more.



sweetsub1957 -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/27/2009 7:22:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

With so many msubs who approach with a laundry list of desires and n'ary a whiff of interest or concern in the female dominant as a person, why the fuck shouldn't they pay?  Genuine is as genuine does.  Professional dominants who are working seem a great deal more genuine than on-line jerkoffs who are just wanking and whining.



I couldn't agree more.  Just why is it that whenever someone, Dom or sub, doesn't get what they want the other person is always a "fake?"  That's just silly.  And if a pro is a sub because she gets paid, that doesn't mean the sub is Dom.  If the sub has to pay for what he wants, I don't think that makes him any more Dom.  If he was Dominant he'd just take what he wanted, but no, he has to pay for it.



brumindubsub -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 3:07:07 AM)

I only started this thread for peoples views etc,it seems that many dont like to do this as they woyld much rarther attack me personally,Is it so inportant that grammer and spelling is correct.Does this make me a worse person because of it,as far as i can see you understand every word i have said.How you could think i have no respect for bdsm world is behond me.If you have a partner and then agree to have other partners there is something wrong in your realsioship that is not being filled.Thgen you should end it before some one gets hurt.Haveing many or play partners to me is a total lack of respect to your partner.I no this is the year 2009 but maybe this is why the worlds the way it is so many uncareing disresectful people.If your not haoppy in yourself having many play partners wont help,But i wish you well lady trainer.

Why people are compareing pro dommes to all sorts of jobs is behond me,im not interested in pro dommes this thread as nothing to do with pro dommes.

And yes im from England and live in Ireland,nothing wrong with brummies,And im quite shocked Venatrix at your attitude towards my spelling,grammer i thought you was a bit better than that,from our chats in the past.Then you agreed that spelling grammer not inportant you have changed your view i take it.

And there are many people out there into the bdsm world domme or sub whos spelling grammer might not be the best,its people like lady trainner that stops many getting involved.Dont pick on someones disablements be a domme be strong.

So many people have pm me on this
i dont mind pro dommes they fine they do a job a service.
My point was that when they get paid to domme someone they no longer a domme,They have become a sub.Like it hate like or hate me it makes no differance,this is a fact.I pay you to domme me you are now my sub doing what i want...Fact ..



BitaTruble -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 3:22:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brumindubsub

Im not saying your wrong or right only you have the answer to that.
No im not being offensive in anyway at all well dont see how i am,my thread was about are pro dommes subs really,and to this i think im right.I just dont see how if you pay for a women to do what you want how this makes you a sub it makes you the domme,As i said there is nothing wrong with this it does provide a service for people with kinky sexual likes.But and a big but this is not real it becomes a role reverse thing,now my friend we carnt all have the same view or opion on this otherwise there be no chat rooms lol...


It doesn't matter how much money they are offered, they can still say "no". No one can demand they do anything, they are in charge because they still make the choice whether or not they'll do it.

If I ask my Master to get me a drink if he's already in the kitchen, he'll get it or not at his whim because HE is the one in charge. If he chooses to get it, it doesn't turn him into my sub .. it just means he's a nice guy. My asking him for the drink doesn't mean that I'm a dominant.. it just means that I'm thirsty.



Whenready -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 3:32:22 AM)

Quote: brumindubsub My point was that when they get paid to domme someone they no longer a domme,They have become a sub.Like it hate like or hate me it makes no differance,this is a fact.I pay you to domme me you are now my sub doing what i want...Fact ..

Opinion. Not fact.

this thread as nothing to do with pro dommes. Looks at thread title... RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs . Hmmmm. I beg to differ.

i dont mind pro dommes they fine they do a job a service. I'm afraid I don't get that impression from you either in your postings or in your profile.

But to answer the original question, no, they aren't. To give a parallel: if I'm with a sub, and I respect her hard limits, does that make Me sub? I don't think so, so why should a pro be any different?



brumindubsub -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 5:06:17 AM)

Good point Whenready very good point.
So maybe in a way its possible you have been the first on this thread to give me food for thought.It was a simple queston at the the start and got out of hands,insults went flying.
But your simple yet effective reply as gave me something to think bout.



SelinaKyle -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 5:23:32 AM)

I think you have some point but there are areas lacking in your argument. You simplify that if a domme recieves money/gifts for a service that since she is a reciprocant; she herself is owned or subserviant in someway?
I suggest that as a domme being able to recieve and take from your sub in any respect fulfills her need to be domminant. To take, to own, to train, or manipulate. Whether she chooses to take your flesh or you money is a irrelavant. The important thing is to domminate. Gifts or money are the brucy bonus my boy.



allthatjaz -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 6:41:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz



I still come across many subs (as a none payed Domme) that are very specific about what 'they' want. You don't have to be a pro Domme to find plenty of 'do me subs'. When you first get talking to a submissive they will usually inform you of what they are and are not willing to do. If I go along with their likes does that make me a submissive?




Actually I already said this but you obviously chose not to read it!

I know I said I was done with this thread and the reasons for that is the ignorance and blanket un-acceptance of different dynamics were really grating at me but then Steve read the entire thread and saw the funny side of it and accused me of being intolerant of the intolerant!!



Venatrix -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 6:55:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brumindubsub

And yes im from England and live in Ireland,nothing wrong with brummies,And im quite shocked Venatrix at your attitude towards my spelling,grammer i thought you was a bit better than that,from our chats in the past.Then you agreed that spelling grammer not inportant you have changed your view i take it.



You've got me mixed up with someone else, mate.  I've never corresponded with you, unless you're posting under a different screen name.  In any case, I was referring to what you said, not how you said it.  Pro-dommes could be dominant, submissive, vanilla, or space aliens in their "real" lives.  Pro-domming is a job, that's why people are making the comparison.  If you'd just accept that and walk away, this thread wouldn't have got nearly as messy as it has, but you don't seem to want to listen to reason.



MMercurial -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 7:06:15 AM)

In reply to Lostkitten3:

I can certainly believe you!
Some subbies are needy, and UGLY.

Whew!



NihilusZero -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 7:30:02 AM)

Answer from the Pro-Domme's business department: Perhaps.
Answer from the Pro-Domme's marketing department: No.



brumindubsub -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 7:32:17 AM)

First of all MMercurial,theres no need to be saying people are ugly thats not nice this is a place to exchange opions not call others nasty names a bit chidish,If theres some one you dont like the look of fair enough but dont make fun of people like that its a sad thing to do when another humanss resorts to that.

SelinaKyle
Bring back bruce thats what i say chin up he he.
fair point you make.

Allthatjazz
Why do you need to resort to name calling to make your point.As i said we are all differant i just dont belive that when in a relisonship that its right to have other partners,its just shows a total lack of respect to your partner and under lyes bigger problems.This is my view.If your seeing people in casual basis thats differant if you have a partner then no i belive myself its wrong.Im not insulting you in anyway i just dont agree and insulting me is no opion at all.

Venatrix
Sorry i got you mixed up with somebody else please except my appoloiges sorry.
i agree dommes have a job i said this from start,i dont have a problem with this in fact there should be govement help to set dommes up in buissness,I have no issues with this at all i truely belive they do well most a good needed service.I just belive that once you take payment your a sub thats all.

Over all theres been a few pm and a few remarks on the thread that have made me think more about this.At the start i was about 80 percent sure pro dommes was really subs at the moment its up and down.Its a difficult one is this..



AAkasha -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 8:01:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Answer from the Pro-Domme's business department: Perhaps.
Answer from the Pro-Domme's marketing department: No.



Now that's pretty funny.

I'd present a different point of view.  Most qualified, skilled and talented lifestyle and/or pro femdoms do not "become subs" as the OP put it.  One way they retain ultimate control is by being able to select their clients. If a client does not want to play THEIR way, they are just turned away. No amount of money will change their mind.

There are many lower-tiered pro femdoms who will build their business base, I am sure, by being a more, "Can I take your order please?"  In reality, it's probably easier to just take a check list of fantasies and execute them, hence the analogy.  Power exchange is emotionally exhausting. The truly skilled pro femdoms DO maintain control of the session, and they are paid well for that.  Those men who want to submit on their terms and just have their lists of fetishes ultimately end up at the door of the lower-tiered femdom who just does them off the list. 

Whether or not this makes them a "sub" is a matter of semantics.  I'd argue they are just as good, in many cases, at "roleplaying" control - with the attitude and language and use of props.  However, I still say the most sought-after pro femdoms are choosy enough that they engage only submissive clients who are willing to surrender.

Akasha



LadyNTrainer -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 8:47:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brumindubsub

I only started this thread for peoples views etc,it seems that many dont like to do this as they woyld much rarther attack me personally,


Do you honestly not understand that you are insulting and attacking other people?


quote:

Is it so inportant that grammer and spelling is correct.Does this make me a worse person because of it,as far as i can see you understand every word i have said.


Online, we cannot see one another's physical presentation, so our writing is all we have to show as our public face.  If your writing is extremely poor, it is the social equivalent of appearing in public with one's hair and teeth unbrushed and one's clothes in disarray.  It is a very poor impression of your intelligence and maturity.


quote:

How you could think i have no respect for bdsm world is behond me.If you have a partner and then agree to have other partners there is something wrong in your realsioship that is not being filled.Thgen you should end it before some one gets hurt.Haveing many or play partners to me is a total lack of respect to your partner.I no this is the year 2009 but maybe this is why the worlds the way it is so many uncareing disresectful people.If your not haoppy in yourself having many play partners wont help


That is rude, judgmental horseshit.  What works for you and your relationships you have every right to say, but when you make pronouncements about the state of other people's relationships, you become an utter ass.  Triads, quads, line marriages, poly families and leather families work just fine despite your self-righteous judgment that there is something "wrong" with us or our relationships by their nature.  YOU may be monogamous if you wish; those of us who feel that poly relationships enhance and enrich our lives will continue to love without limits. 

Respect does not mean "I respect everybody who does it the same way I do, and insult everybody who does it differently by telling them they're all doing it wrong". 


quote:

Why people are compareing pro dommes to all sorts of jobs is behond me,im not interested in pro dommes this thread as nothing to do with pro dommes.


Uh....because you're rudely insulting pro dommes, and you just don't seem to get that it's a job like any other job.  Unless you think it makes any professional submissive to accept money for doing what they do, it doesn't make a shred of sense to say that about pro dommes.  With an attitude like yours, I sure as hell would not want to be your auto mechanic or your English tutor.

quote:

And there are many people out there into the bdsm world domme or sub whos spelling grammer might not be the best,its people like lady trainner that stops many getting involved.Dont pick on someones disablements be a domme be strong.


Actually I spend a good deal of my time doing volunteer tutoring of troubled youth in business English skills, because I think they're crucially important to success in the real world.  If you have learning disability, what you need is professional help.  What you don't need is to be showing your ass in public by insulting people, badly. 


quote:

My point was that when they get paid to domme someone they no longer a domme,They have become a sub.Like it hate like or hate me it makes no differance,this is a fact.I pay you to domme me you are now my sub doing what i want...Fact ..


It is not fact at all, and none of your ill-written rantings is going to make it so.  If you really believe that, try telling a pro domme that you're going to give her the spanking because taking your money makes her a sub, and see how long it takes you to get your ass kicked out the door. 



brumindubsub -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 12:09:30 PM)

Lady trainer
intelligence maybe you have more maybe you dont,i dont think grammer and spelling is the way to tell this,this is rubbish silly childish talk,i note you have no photo up why would some one with as many opions like yourself hide...This i dont get
I wont be drawn in to a row with you at all i only wanted opions thats all,i could me totaly wrong with my views opions etc but thats the idea of a message board.
if indeed you do volunteer tutoring your no that insulting other with problems in this area is wrong and you wouldnt go down that path.So i dout you do this volunteer tutoring.
Poly familes i never even said a word about them or leather families,your bring up a lot of things that i have never taled of.
I have insulted no one i have expressed my views if im wrong to do this then id be shocked.I have not been judgmental about anything...
But you are allowed to express your view but try not to be so insulting its a chat room message board not to be taken so serious.Its only one persons view...



allthatjaz -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 1:44:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brumindubsub



Poly familes i never even said a word about them or leather families,your bring up a lot of things that i have never taled of.
I have insulted no one i have expressed my views if im wrong to do this then id be shocked.I have not been judgmental about anything...
But you are allowed to express your view but try not to be so insulting its a chat room message board not to be taken so serious.Its only one persons view...



forgive me but did you not say...


'How you could think i have no respect for bdsm world is behond me.If you have a partner and then agree to have other partners there is something wrong in your realsioship that is not being filled.Thgen you should end it before some one gets hurt.Haveing many or play partners to me is a total lack of respect to your partner.I no this is the year 2009 but maybe this is why the worlds the way it is so many uncareing disresectful people.If your not haoppy in yourself having many play partners wont help'


Do you understand that poly means more than one partner? It doesn't matter which way up I read what you said.... it still says you don't get it, don't like it and find it has total lack of respect!

As for not insulting others, you attempted to devalue my relationship and I find that pretty insulting.
Don't dish out if you can't take back



brumindubsub -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 2:32:09 PM)

Yes i no what a poly family is..I dont agree with this for the most..if you have a partner,husband boyfriend girl friend and you share yourself with others then that specialness you have is gone.I dont like the idea myself too me its just a sexual thing thats all.You carnt truely have many partners liveing with you this is not true.People might come and go,its seems fine if your single and dont want anyone special but i dread the idea of haveing a partner who wanted to share me or herself.No not for me.



Apocalypso -> RE: Are Pro Dommes Really subs (7/28/2009 2:38:13 PM)

I think brumindubsub may be on crack.  It's just what I believe, so that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

He might say he's not.  But how can we know if he's being truly honest.



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