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bullwhips - 2/19/2006 9:19:13 PM   
MasterOwnskitty


Posts: 97
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Just wondering if any of you have experience with a bullwhip. I have used a single tail for quite some time but never a bullwhip. If anyone can give advice on good bullwhips to use and where I may find other information (I've done searches on google and found helpful information), it would be appreciated. Also, on how to use a bullwhip in a scene.

Thank you.
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RE: bullwhips - 2/19/2006 9:23:03 PM   
michaelGA


Posts: 1194
Status: offline 		do bulls still use whips, Sir...i really don't know...LOL

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RE: bullwhips - 2/19/2006 9:52:14 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Just wondering if any of you have experience with a bullwhip. I have used a single tail for quite some time but never a bullwhip. If anyone can give advice on good bullwhips to use and where I may find other information (I've done searches on google and found helpful information), it would be appreciated. Also, on how to use a bullwhip in a scene.


You might try contacting a whip enthusiasts club (Whip Enthusiasts). There is actually a National group, the name of which I'm not certain of, but I do know at least three WhipMasters who are members of a whip enthusiasts organization. It's a good place to learn, and no one needs to know your target of choice is human.


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RE: bullwhips - 2/19/2006 10:10:55 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well Bullwhips come in everything from 3ft to 20+ ft, the main difference in use is the when you break your wrist during the throw. The handle serves as a lever and gives a mechanical advantage so a little less energy has to be put into it from the hand.

The difference between short and long whips in the scene I have found are 1. you have to have more room or practice throws that keep the throw clean even in a small space.
2. the followthrough (holding your hand still after the throw until the whip finishes doing it's thing is more important.
3. Keeping the energy transfered to the bottom regulated, larger whip more mass, mass X acceleration = energy, so with more mass the speed has to be regulated more to keep the energy the same.
4. Most bullwhips have replaceable crackers and the fall that you have to account for
5. the cracker is easy to change so you can "sterilize" the tool easier by replacing the cracker.
6. The fall depending on length can help you do fun things like intentional wraps and a few other things.

Take the time to go to a class or two at someplace like Thunder In The Mountains, and talk to other whip players.

In Leather

Archer

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RE: bullwhips - 2/19/2006 10:31:37 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterOwnskitty

Just wondering if any of you have experience with a bullwhip. I have used a single tail for quite some time but never a bullwhip. If anyone can give advice on good bullwhips to use and where I may find other information (I've done searches on google and found helpful information), it would be appreciated. Also, on how to use a bullwhip in a scene.

Thank you.



Ask Amayos. He made me faint just mentioning one...... LOL

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RE: bullwhips - 2/20/2006 12:31:08 AM   
VikingHouse


Posts: 57
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
I've been unable to find the catalog that, I wanted to refer you to so, I'll just mention that they sale stage 'n' screen props. Their single and signal tails are priced fairly well, they have bullwhips and stockwhips in a wide range of prices, too. I would not recommend purchasing a David Morgan bullwhip until his standards of quality is restored.
Purchasing an inexpensive nylon whip could be a good investment... I've used them and they threw and cracked really well. The ones that, I tested were new so, I can't comment on how well they holdup, but, I did hear, Travis Wilson recommend them during a lecture and demo at Beat Me in Saint Louis or was it Spanksgiving?
Gentry

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RE: bullwhips - 2/20/2006 4:21:12 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Find a teacher, these take great skill, more so than many of our toys---get someone to teach you before you lay your subs skin open--

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RE: bullwhips - 2/20/2006 7:03:59 AM   
DelRey


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline 		Don't buy whips from a BDSM shop (unless you have to) you will likley pay 3X to 12X the price. Buy them from Saddle shops or farm implement stores.

Archer is right, I big ass bull whip may be mocho but you need the super dome to use it. The one I like the best has about a 2 foot stiff handle with about a 4 foot tail. Although I can't wind up and swing full range in a normal bedroom, I can get plenty of range in order to get good, No, Great effect.

Bull whips are a great feeling but I get more use from an odd looking (don't know what its called) leather slapper. Its a short handle with about a 2ft solid double thick leather sewn with something heavy and pliable inside between the two sheets of leather. When this thing is in motion and you break your wrist in the follow through your sub gets an amazing sting as well as a thud that makes dem cheeks roll like breakers on the ocean..... LOL



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RE: bullwhips - 2/20/2006 9:41:08 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline 		You need a lot of space to use it in, not to mention having a reasonable amount of practice under your belt. Bullwhips can do a LOT of damage if you've got a lead flicker arm. From my limited experience, much of the trick in using a whip of such design involves adequate space, standing form, and the applied movements of your wrist and forearm during the strike.

This skill is an ongoing effort for me to be comfortable with, and I'm still learning. I don't need to explode apples off a girl's head in front of an audience, but I do want to accomplish a fair amount of accuracy and understanding of this implement. In the meantime, I will only make use of my crop or cane (or other unmentionable things) for severe discipline. The bullwhip is a future tool I'm investing time, research and money into. It pays to be cautious.

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RE: bullwhips - 2/20/2006 12:22:25 PM   
Sartoris32801


Posts: 172
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

on how to use a bullwhip in a scene.


As others before me have stated, it takes an expert and great skill. That cracking thundebolt sound is the end of the whip actually breaking the sound barrier.

A cracker or herdsmen used (uses) the bullwhip for the sound effects to train cattle to move and rarely would he ever strike the animal because of the damage that can be done.
Needless to say you better know what you're doing before using one on a person.

Sartoris

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RE: bullwhips - 2/20/2006 3:24:24 PM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

do bulls still use whips, Sir...i really don't know...LOL

Michael you crack me up!

Bullwhips are to be practiced with to learn the motion. The whip does all the work and the moition should be effortless. Practice, Practice, Practice. Also, make sure the "cracker" which is the tip of the whip, is one that feather's out, they are interchangeable.
Lastly, go rent the movie "Zorro"

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RE: bullwhips - 2/20/2006 5:50:25 PM   
MasterOwnskitty


Posts: 97
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		I appreciate the responses from all of you. The information has proven quite valuable. Thank you very much.

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RE: bullwhips - 2/20/2006 6:08:28 PM   
michaelGA


Posts: 1194
Status: offline 		i'm glad someone liked the little joke i tossed out here

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RE: bullwhips - 2/20/2006 6:58:53 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		Sir-

my first reccomendation is for a minimum of a five foot bullwhip (bull whips are generally measured from the butt of the handle, to the end of the thong- NOT including the fall&cracker-) which is going to be an overall length of about seven feet. This is going to call for a clear area of about 20 feet at least, but a shorter whip is just not going to have any real differance in the work from a Snake or signal whip. With practice, you will be able to use it in tighter places- I can work my 2m (6.5 ft) bull within a area about twelve by sixteen, but that will come with time. You want a 'Dante' style fall and cracker, which will allow you to change them out for reasons of sanitation, and to alter the cracking/ impact characteristics.

Style wise, you are going to find the the standard 'Deegan' or Eastcoast throw is just not going to work- I find a 'pig drovers' throw, a side throw, or circus throw to be the most useful (See:The Bullwhip Home Page).

In Practicing, you will find it a tough change from the signalwhip. It will call for a slower, more tightly controlled throw, and it is WAY more likely to 'bite' the weilder- early experiments call for goggles, and a brimmed hat (unless you feel a one eyed, earless look desirable). Don't spend too long on the towel or pillow phase- once you have ranging down, switch to live targets. Towels don't talk back, and the difference between a brush and blood is still a matter of cm- but from eight feet away, it is way harder to judge.

Get your First Whip in nylon from Rhett Kelley, and once you are sure that it's going to suit you, order your fancy going to church whip from Peter Jackson.

Good Luck

Stay warm,
Lawrence

< Message edited by topcat -- 2/20/2006 7:00:13 PM >

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RE: bullwhips - 2/20/2006 9:28:18 PM   
MasterOwnskitty


Posts: 97
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you, Lawrence. That's some great advice and great links to get started.

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RE: bullwhips - 2/21/2006 12:20:50 AM   
Petruchio


Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

A cracker or herdsmen used (uses) the bullwhip for the sound effects to train cattle to move and rarely would he ever strike the animal because of the damage that can be done.


I hope beginners pay attention to these words. My dad was a 6'4 farmer/rancher who owned what must have been a 12+ whip. I was young at the time, but I felt I never came close to his expertise. Even with an ordinary belt, he could crack it like you wouldn't believe.

*Real* bullwhips, not the things you find in a NYC BDSM shop, are long, heavy, and vicious. A trained drover could kill a grown man with one and they're used to give an explosion of sound to get an animal moving.

Even the lighter whips you find in suburban shops are not meant to hit a woman, not unless you like one without flesh.

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RE: bullwhips - 2/21/2006 5:57:23 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Petruchio

quote:

A cracker or herdsmen used (uses) the bullwhip for the sound effects to train cattle to move and rarely would he ever strike the animal because of the damage that can be done.


I hope beginners pay attention to these words. My dad was a 6'4 farmer/rancher who owned what must have been a 12+ whip. I was young at the time, but I felt I never came close to his expertise. Even with an ordinary belt, he could crack it like you wouldn't believe.

*Real* bullwhips, not the things you find in a NYC BDSM shop, are long, heavy, and vicious. A trained drover could kill a grown man with one and they're used to give an explosion of sound to get an animal moving.

Even the lighter whips you find in suburban shops are not meant to hit a woman, not unless you like one without flesh.



Hate to burst your bubble but yes we do actually strike our slaves with the bullwhips, however you can have enough control and accuracy to do so without removing flesh.
The trick is you don't always crack it on skin, and when you do, you only strike with the cracker/ string and you do it with the lightest of throws needed to crack. It's ammazing the range of effect you can get on the skin from a bullwhip. Various cracker materials make a big difference in the effect a whip has on skin. Larger puffy pom pom crackers, vs tightly twisted kevlar crackers. The crack is breaking the sound barrier however you cna barely breeak it and get a crack or you can put your back into it and get a crack and the two throws would have far different effects.

The reason the whips from the SM shop are so light is as mentioned above E=MA, reduce the mass and you have reduced the excess energy that causes the deeper cuts. BTW those light little whips were in use long before the SM shops started carrying them.

In Leather

Archer

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RE: bullwhips - 2/21/2006 4:25:33 PM   
Domin81


Posts: 66
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline 		I practice and play with Bullwhips…a lot. They have a bit of a longer learning curve than a signal whip which is most commonly used for play. The main differences are that a bullwhip handle is not flexible and good bullwhips are not shot loaded, just more layers of braided leather. The bulls get their energy from levering the stiff handle rather than a shot loaded belly. The bulls I do scenes with are 4’ which makes them about 6 ½’ overall including the fall and cracker. The length means it takes a bit more room to play than with a signal whip.

I like bullwhips over signal or snake whips because:
-They are more accurate.
-They are capable of a larger repertoire of throws.
-They take less energy to throw...better for long scenes.
-They are viewed my many as more dangerous…more exciting for the bottom.

With practice you can be capable of everything from caressing nipples to raising little drops of blood. Bullwhips can be very sensual or they can go right into some serious sm...depends on how you use them. I love to load up a nice pair of breasts with clothes pins then slowly take them off one at a time. I don’t play hard with folks that I don’t know well, so when asked to give someone some bullwhip experience, I usually limit it to a bit of a scene ‘fluffing’ the hair in the nape of their neck. They experience a crack, a little puff of air and a tug on their hair. For many this is a very heady experience, yet the whip never touchs their skin.

Bullwhips are like many things in life…only dangerous when incompetent hands.



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RE: bullwhips - 2/27/2006 3:35:24 PM   
MasterOwnskitty


Posts: 97
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Just wanted to thank everyone once again for all the advice you gave me. I ended up purchasing a 6 x 8 plait kangaroo bullwhip and am enjoying it very much. Thanks again.

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RE: bullwhips - 2/27/2006 8:30:46 PM   
BearNFirelight


Posts: 18
Joined: 4/28/2005
Status: offline 		I'd try snakepit leather. They do all the big shows like thunder and have a website as well. They have nothing but quality whips...in fact even though I make floggers myself I still hold my rare white bison flogger I got from them as my most prized flogger. I also got my single tail from them as well.

As for using one in a scene....LOTS and LOTS of practice....far more whip to control. I saw one used in a scene at Thunder in the Mountains a couple years ago and the sub was torn wide open many times from a bullwhip. They can do some nasty damage and standing 12' or so away is a long way from the sub to really know where the tip of that whip is striking and how hard. Definately practice a lot before using it on a person. I think SnakePit has videos on how to use a whip properly too. I got one with my single tail.

Best of luck!

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