RE: Forgetting to be a human being

RE: Forgetting to be a human being (Full Version)

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VeryMercurial -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 6:55:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: so why are grown adults still struggling with it so much. In a nutshell? Folks try to fit life into BDSM instead of BDSM into life. Most learn even if it takes some of us longer than others. That is my take on it also, it takes a lot more than having kink in common for me to become involved with someone. Kink/BDSM is on the list, but character means so much more to me.

slavekal -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 7:04:21 AM)
Lots of folks in this life are a bit obsessive, like Star Trek fans. You get titles, learn a new language, there's cool toys. All of a sudden a total geek gets to be important within a particular subculture.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 7:33:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally "My dominant wants me to do something I really don't want to do, but thats what its about isn't it" - Don't do anything you really don't want to do. Selective submission does seem to be the rule rather than the exception, I have to admit. Yeah far better that people compromise who they are don't you think

NihilusZero -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 7:37:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally When it is right then both people make an equal amount of effort, who wants to be with someone that isn't that into you. Some people don't want or need "equal" effort. some people understand that, in the dynamic they've chose, they'll be told to do stuff they "really don't like".

NihilusZero -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 7:43:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally "My dominant wants me to do something I really don't want to do, but thats what its about isn't it" - Don't do anything you really don't want to do. Selective submission does seem to be the rule rather than the exception, I have to admit. Yeah far better that people compromise who they are don't you think We wouldn't say this of, for instance, allowing a child to tantrum for not getting a lollypop in a store, would we? In that sense, we are "compromised" every day of our lives. I'm compromised by not being able to go to Best Buy right now and get the 750 Gg external hard drive I need by just dropping a $20 bill on the counter and calling it a day.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 7:46:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero We wouldn't say this of, for instance, allowing a child to tantrum for not getting a lollypop in a store, would we? In that sense, we are "compromised" every day of our lives. I'm compromised by not being able to go to Best Buy right now and get the 750 Gg external hard drive I need by just dropping a $20 bill on the counter and calling it a day. My general meaning was there will be some things that people do not want to do, sure for me submission does mean well submitting therefore having your will changed by another, great, however I still have boundries, either that meands I leave the relationship or call it a hard limit. For example none sex related if I were with a dominant who wanted me to go to an anti homosexuality rally I would not go, that would be compromising who I am and what I believe in.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 7:48:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally When it is right then both people make an equal amount of effort, who wants to be with someone that isn't that into you. Some people don't want or need "equal" effort. some people understand that, in the dynamic they've chose, they'll be told to do stuff they "really don't like". Equal amount of effort doesnt mean both submitting, doesnt mean one won't do something they wont like, it means that if someone says they will call you, then they call you, if they want to be with you then they will tell you so. I do not think it is easier being a dominant or a submissive, I do think both parties can put an equal amount of effort in the relationship

kdsub -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 7:55:01 AM)
Lets face it…we, you and me, deep down care about one thing…us. We may use words like sub, slave, or dom but they only have meaning if they satisfy our needs. Now if we can satisfy our needs and someone else’s all the better but we must get what we want. There is nothing stingy about this fact…we have a right to exist and claw to the top of the pile…or force our way to the tit. Butch

NihilusZero -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:05:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally My general meaning was there will be some things that people do not want to do, sure for me submission does mean well submitting therefore having your will changed by another, great, however I still have boundries, either that meands I leave the relationship or call it a hard limit. For example none sex related if I were with a dominant who wanted me to go to an anti homosexuality rally I would not go, that would be compromising who I am and what I believe in. Then you're talking about what level of autonomy you still want. It's the type of things that makes it hard to reconcile with choosing a submission in the first place. If your submission to the trusting competence and wisdom of a D-type is pre-empted by personal discomfort or if your submission is relative only (or mostly) to getting the results you want in the decision-making process, then what's the point of submission in the first place? Also, from what I've seen of many subs/slaves, they wouldn't want to feel they were prioritizing their own wants before those of their D-type. This is where understanding what it is that one wants and making the competent decision in finding a partner honorable and compatible with those wants is important. But, theoretically, DomImus has a point.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:12:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Also, from what I've seen of many subs/slaves, they wouldn't want to feel they were prioritizing their own wants before those of their D-type. This is where understanding what it is that one wants and making the competent decision in finding a partner honorable and compatible with those wants is important. But, theoretically, DomImus has a point. Quite, i am probably not a true sub because I like to pick someone who wont make me do things that I morally disagree with, therefore I am just a person who likes to set aside certain things but not all about myself for the fulfillment of another, I am perfectly happy with that.

NihilusZero -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:19:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally Quite, i am probably not a true sub because I like to pick someone who wont make me do things that I morally disagree with, therefore I am just a person who likes to set aside certain things but not all about myself for the fulfillment of another, I am perfectly happy with that. No, no, silly! [8D][:)] The entire point is that you do try and find someone who mirrors your system of honor and integrity. That way, in situations where you're being asked to do something you might not like, your reaction is one of trusting that he has a sensible reason for asking it. Submission is a range. But, surely, if you get told to fetch him a beer, you won't flatly refuse because of just not feeling like it at that moment, right? This is the point of hard limits, since much of D/s interactions is an exploration into other areas of likes and dislikes.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:27:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero No, no, silly! [8D] The entire point is that you do try and find someone who mirrors your system of honor and integrity. That way, in situations where you're being asked to do something you might not like, your reaction is one of trusting that he has a sensible reason for asking it. Subsmission is a range. But, surely, if you get told to fetch him a beer, you won't flatly refuse because of just not feeling like it at that moment, right? This is the point of hard limits, since much of D/s interactions is an exploration into other areas of likes and dislikes. Ahh but surely if picking someone because they won't make you submit to something you don't want to submit to makes you less of a submissive? Eh Eh? As for the beer thing course I would refuse, alcohol is bad she says sipping a carling

NihilusZero -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:33:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally Ahh but surely if picking someone because they won't make you submit to something you don't want to submit to makes you less of a submissive? Eh Eh? "Less" is a word that can get used here and be completely taken in the wrong context. Since submission is a range, surely some people will (in their demeanor, actions and decisions) be "less submissive" than others; that's just a matter of preference. But saying that it makes one "less of a submissive" than another is a questioning of their apparent inherent 'sub value' which is something that can only be measured against the relationships they're in and the ideals they actually seek. quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally As for the beer thing course I would refuse, alcohol is bad she says sipping a carling Bad sub! wags finger Keeping it all for yourself, eh?!

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:36:46 AM)
I agree NZ (And what do you want me to do stock pile my beer till I meet someone? :P)

leadership527 -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:40:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble In a nutshell? Folks try to fit life into BDSM instead of BDSM into life. Most learn even if it takes some of us longer than others. Yes, this sounds right to me. To me, it looks like some people are constructing a fantasy image of in their heads of what a slave/sub/dom/master/whatever is. Typically, this image contains at least some elements that are completely impractical or worse outside of the fantasy realm. Then they are trying to mold themselves to that.

agirl -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:44:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Also, from what I've seen of many subs/slaves, they wouldn't want to feel they were prioritizing their own wants before those of their D-type. This is where understanding what it is that one wants and making the competent decision in finding a partner honorable and compatible with those wants is important. But, theoretically, DomImus has a point. Quite, i am probably not a true sub because I like to pick someone who wont make me do things that I morally disagree with, therefore I am just a person who likes to set aside certain things but not all about myself for the fulfillment of another, I am perfectly happy with that. Loosely speaking , you've just descibed half of the planet's inhabitants. Most of the people I have ever met, have gained pleasure from fulfilling someone elses wishes, on some level. By the same token , most people tend toward people that aren't morally opposed to them , not for that reason alone, but simply because it would make for uncomfortable bed-fellows, whatever relationship you were in. agirl

leadership527 -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:51:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Then you're talking about what level of autonomy you still want. It's the type of things that makes it hard to reconcile with choosing a submission in the first place. If your submission to the trusting competence and wisdom of a D-type is pre-empted by personal discomfort or if your submission is relative only (or mostly) to getting the results you want in the decision-making process, then what's the point of submission in the first place? I need to argue with this NZ. You've reduced things down to a boolean set... "total TPE slave" or "not submissive". I agree that there is the question of autonomy... but then again that question exists in every sub/slave's head somewhere. Some choose to deny it -- in my mind, at their peril. To your second question, why bother with submission if it isn't total? For starters, reality being what it is... it's never going to be total. There will always be places where the trust levels weren't sufficient or the compatibility just wasn't right or whatever. But Carol and I have set our foot on a path that is TPE-ish for lack of a better word. The fact that she doesn't believe I my wisdom is infinite and the fact that she doesn't trust me completely and totally doesn't seem to stop us from having our fun. We are learning and growing, day by day.

NihilusZero -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:52:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble In a nutshell? Folks try to fit life into BDSM instead of BDSM into life. Most learn even if it takes some of us longer than others. Yes, this sounds right to me. To me, it looks like some people are constructing a fantasy image of in their heads of what a slave/sub/dom/master/whatever is. Typically, this image contains at least some elements that are completely impractical or worse outside of the fantasy realm. Then they are trying to mold themselves to that. Aha! this is my new pet peeve. [:D] Thie above has become a common mentality as far as BDSM is concerned, but really it has nothing to do with an ideal or how "impractical" it is (which is only really a measure of odds and variables...to that extent playing the lottery is "impractical"). People who hold up the concept of "fantasy" BDSM (I'm also slowly starting to think there is no such thing as "fantasy"...and that the concept of "fantasy" is itself a fantasy, but I digress!) seem to be suggesting the argument that, in a situation where naivete or inability to reconcile what they seek with who they choose and their efforts to make it work, it is the concept that's the problem. This makes no sense. It's equivalent to saying that a faithful, harmonious marriage of 40+ years is a "fantasy" and people shouldn't attempt it based on the percentage of instances of infidelity and divorce. It strikes me that those who would seek to blame the concept they chose to pursue when the pursuit ends badly are not taking the responsibility to shoulder their own failed efforts on being able to effect the things they wanted.

mrbob726 -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:55:25 AM)
You mean to say Carling is still around ? wow (sorry to be off topic!)

NihilusZero -> RE: Forgetting to be a human being (7/28/2009 8:58:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 I need to argue with this NZ. You've reduced things down to a boolean set... "total TPE slave" or "not submissive". I actually addressed this with her because I specifically didn't want the impression to be that she wasn't a "submissive". My personal preferences aside, I'd say if there is even one facet of your life that you surrender completely to your partner (color of your fingernail polish?) that you are on the submission scale. quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 To your second question, why bother with submission if it isn't total? For starters, reality being what it is... it's never going to be total. There will always be places where the trust levels weren't sufficient or the compatibility just wasn't right or whatever. Never? How about "unlikely" instead? Isn't "never" rather boolean itself? [;)] quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 But Carol and I have set our foot on a path that is TPE-ish for lack of a better word. The fact that she doesn't believe I my wisdom is infinite and the fact that she doesn't trust me completely and totally doesn't seem to stop us from having our fun. We are learning and growing, day by day. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting you both personally, but from what you've described I'd say she does trust you as completely as can be. But that doesn't mean that she is consumed with an irrational idea that you cannot and will not make mistakes...only that you are of sufficient character that you can realize and/or admit when that's the case and adjust accordingly. That's still trust.

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