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RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 7/30/2009 10:15:17 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Hell, the very best subs/slaves I've encountered tend to be very strong-willed women, many of whom are highly successful and leaders in their fields.
It takes a damn strong person to fully surrender all

As for your other question
Of course its OK to deny their dominance if they cannot fill your needs
That is, unless you are bound in service in which case the question becomes, "Why are you serving someone who cannot fulfill your needs?"

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 7/30/2009 10:20:49 AM   
Commisar


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/22/2009
From: Oxford, UK
Status: offline 		Yes. In fact, according to history at least, it is the rich and powerful who were the most submissive.

I think it stems from the need to escape. When you make all the decisions, when huge responsibility rests on your shoulders, when you have to think about everything you do there's probably nothing better than to come home and not make a single decision for yourself and let your Dom do all the thinking and worrying.

My 2 cents, at least :)

Edit: Oops - just realised this is Ask A Mistress (came here from the Collarme site directly). Apologies.


< Message edited by Commisar -- 7/30/2009 10:21:49 AM >

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 7/30/2009 10:25:42 AM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Commisar

Yes. In fact, according to history at least, it is the rich and powerful who were the most submissive.

I think it stems from the need to escape. When you make all the decisions, when huge responsibility rests on your shoulders, when you have to think about everything you do there's probably nothing better than to come home and not make a single decision for yourself and let your Dom do all the thinking and worrying.

My 2 cents, at least :)

Edit: Oops - just realised this is Ask A Mistress (came here from the Collarme site directly). Apologies.



I agree...I would say most subs are leaders in some aspect of their lives. And conversely most doms do not immediately present as leaders. The good ones tend to be those guys sitting in the back of the room, not seeming to be paying any attention at all...who suddenly come out with an observation that changes the entire course of the conversation . . . .



_____________________________

Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




(in reply to Commisar)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 7/30/2009 10:50:41 AM   
Voodali


Posts: 255
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline 		    This is an interesting question that I often ponder.  In the BDSM group I frequent, there is a curious attitude that it is the Dom/me's responsibility to lead the entire group, and there is a hierarchy of Dom/mes based on experience (which makes sense). I found this quite uncomfortable upon joining because I was a complete novice to the group and had no clue what the hell was going on, and yet, in certain situation was expected to lead.  Just because a person identifies as dominant, and wants to control one specific person (or more, depending on their leanings) does not mean they are adept or even suited to leading an entire group, and does not mean they should lead in every situation.  Personally, I am far too apathetic to lead in some situations, and find it a pain in the ass to concern myself with every individual in the group, to try to make things run smoothly, to deal with attitudes, to take the success or failiure of the group upon myself.  In a situation like a raid in a game, I might well delegate the responsibility and the pain in the ass to a sub.  Good leadership is a form of service, and the best leaders serve the group.
  I would not be thrilled, however, if said sub tried to undermine my authority.  That would quickly reduce my attraction to him, since I despise power struggles.  I imagine many Dommes feel similarly.

(in reply to daintydimples)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 7/30/2009 11:24:14 AM   
spokanesub85


Posts: 46
Joined: 7/27/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

quote:

ORIGINAL: spokanesub85

I am a sub and I was a squad leader in the military.


Oh Damn.  How fast can you get here?

Faster than a speeding bullet.

(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 8/7/2009 7:10:54 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheQuizmeister

Sorry about the lack of an introduction, but I'm more interested in the discussion than myself.

So heres the short end of it. Was having a discussion with someone who knows that I am submissive. I have experienced the BDSM lifestyle (didn't end well, but that's another post) and enjoy it, but am currently not actively engaged in it. I know what I enjoy and I also know I don't enjoy being the dominant half of a party.

Party 2, lets call her spidy has it in her head to question whether I am actually submissive or a switch.

Her newest basis for this idea is activities elsewhere in my life. The activity brought up in the current discussion is one of a leadership role in an online computer game. I often adopt a 'telling people when we are going to engage X enemy, making sure everyone is ready with the proper supplies, and letting people know when something is going wrong' position. To put it shortly, the leader of a twenty five person group.

Now heres is the question(s) I want to bring up and get your opinions on:

Is a submissive still a submissive if they are willing to engage in a leadership role outside of a BDSM relationship? Or rather does being willing to engage in a leadership role mean that the person is dominant?

Just because you are submissive to a dominant does not mean you can't be in charge in other aspectss of your life

Does a submissive have to be a submissive in all aspects of life to be considered a 'pure' submissive? Same question but with a 'lifestyle' submissive.

No and No


And on the discussion of another debate: Is it necessarily wrong for a submissive to question and deny a dominants position if they believe said dominant



An owned submissive bows only to their Dominant and neither a owned or unowned bows to someone just because they consider themselves dominant

does not have the resources (time and effort) to put into the relationship or should the submissive hope for the better?

If the submissives needs are not met he'/she has a GOD given right to walkNow please understand, I am completely aware there is no straight line definition of what a submissive is. It means a lot of things to a lot of people, but that's kind of why I made the post. To hear other peoples thoughts.

And as a general footnote for good measure, I do not mean to offend or anger anyone through this post and its responses. If I do, please pardon me as I do it out of innocence and not of malice.



_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

(in reply to TheQuizmeister)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 8/7/2009 7:18:22 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		Well, I run a group for kinksters between the ages of 18-35, they call me Hell Cat if that tells you anything (or Fearless Leader, Head Bitch in Charge..ect...)

I've never had a problem being in a D/s relationship and being a Community Leader at the same time. If anything, wouldn't a Dom or Master be proud to have such a strong capable person as a submissive/slave?


_____________________________

Resident Hell Cat



(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 8/7/2009 7:20:11 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Well, I run a group for kinksters between the ages of 18-35, they call me Hell Cat if that tells you anything (or Fearless Leader, Head Bitch in Charge..ect...)

I've never had a problem being in a D/s relationship and being a Community Leader at the same time. If anything, wouldn't a Dom or Master be proud to have such a strong capable person as a submissive/slave?



Proud? Heck, I practically require it, depending on what position I'm recruiting for.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 8/7/2009 7:23:23 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		I lead three people in a way. I tend to them, I care for them. I have to lead myself in what I believe to be the correct path.

Yes, subbies can be leaders. We are not sheep. Do not sheer us for our wool!

>_>


_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to TheQuizmeister)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 8/7/2009 7:57:22 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheQuizmeister

Sorry about the lack of an introduction, but I'm more interested in the discussion than myself.

So heres the short end of it. Was having a discussion with someone who knows that I am submissive. I have experienced the BDSM lifestyle (didn't end well, but that's another post) and enjoy it, but am currently not actively engaged in it. I know what I enjoy and I also know I don't enjoy being the dominant half of a party.

Party 2, lets call her spidy has it in her head to question whether I am actually submissive or a switch.

Her newest basis for this idea is activities elsewhere in my life. The activity brought up in the current discussion is one of a leadership role in an online computer game. I often adopt a 'telling people when we are going to engage X enemy, making sure everyone is ready with the proper supplies, and letting people know when something is going wrong' position. To put it shortly, the leader of a twenty five person group.

Now heres is the question(s) I want to bring up and get your opinions on:

Is a submissive still a submissive if they are willing to engage in a leadership role outside of a BDSM relationship? Or rather does being willing to engage in a leadership role mean that the person is dominant?

Does a submissive have to be a submissive in all aspects of life to be considered a 'pure' submissive? Same question but with a 'lifestyle' submissive.

And on the discussion of another debate: Is it necessarily wrong for a submissive to question and deny a dominants position if they believe said dominant does not have the resources (time and effort) to put into the relationship or should the submissive hope for the better?

Now please understand, I am completely aware there is no straight line definition of what a submissive is. It means a lot of things to a lot of people, but that's kind of why I made the post. To hear other peoples thoughts.

And as a general footnote for good measure, I do not mean to offend or anger anyone through this post and its responses. If I do, please pardon me as I do it out of innocence and not of malice.


You want to know if you should (or should not) be considered a sub because you lead people in online video games.

(I'm fairly certain that's what I just read).

(Did I actually just read that???????...surely I must be high....was that indeed the general premise?).

Because you "lead 25 people" in an online environment.

That...that is the reason you're unclear whether or not others should (or should not) consider you sub (or otherwise)?

Is this a comedy show?

Sorry....am I missing something here?

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 8/7/2009 7:58:24 PM >

(in reply to TheQuizmeister)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 8/7/2009 9:20:56 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

Is a submissive still a submissive if they are willing to engage in a leadership role outside of a BDSM relationship?
Of course
quote:

Or rather does being willing to engage in a leadership role mean that the person is dominant?
Of course not

quote:

Does a submissive have to be a submissive in all aspects of life to be considered a 'pure' submissive? Same question but with a 'lifestyle' submissive.
Of course not

quote:

And on the discussion of another debate: Is it necessarily wrong for a submissive to question and deny a dominants position if they believe said dominant does not have the resources (time and effort) to put into the relationship or should the submissive hope for the better?
No and no


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to TheQuizmeister)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 8/7/2009 10:55:15 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		OK so we seem to have a definitive answer on the subby-leadership thing. In fact, we might have created history here as the first thread where everyone who responded agreed LOL!

Now to the second area about subs having the right to refuse a Dominant. Well, yes, until you are committed you have the right to walk away. However, I liked Lockit's answer about not assuming things. A Dominant may seem to have a lot going on, but as the old saying goes, "want it done? ask a busy person!" So don't assume they don't have time etc, find out. However, if it has been clearly spelled out that for eg, the Dominant can only see you once every 2 weeks for play and that's just not enough to float your sub boat, then by all means say, "Thanks Maam but i am looking for someone i can serve more often and devote more of my time to" and then exit stage left!

Maam Jay aka violet[A] (who's also a leader through and through ... except with Master and even then sometimes when He tells her to lead!)

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 10/5/2009 1:50:26 PM   
SthrnCom4t


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline 		My Otter is extremely opinionated. I often try to get him to go online and fill out the surveys offered by Home Depot and be entered a chance to win a $5000 shopping spree. He thinks I'm giving him a hard time....go figure?

I look for a strong character as that is what I am attracted to. Those who have self-esteem rarely enjoy being around me for long, as they get offended, and I don't feel responsible for their offense. Relationships are how you define them, and so if you are the s half of a Ds relationship, as long as you are able to work a respectable dynamic, I think it's all good.

Now, Dominants with self esteem issues will not like you. Convenient to find out sooner rather than later. Personal communication style is also a big one, as some people need a more submissive demeanor from their submissives more often than not. Again, its a compatibility issue more than are you a *pure/true/real* submissive, or not.

Time availablity and desire vs need for connection are also big on the compatibility issue. Having a good idea of what works for you, is definitely a plus. With each relationship we learn new facets of ourselves, so keep engaging, and learning, and evolving.

Just my 2 cents,


_____________________________

Sthrn
Honorably served by OttersSwim

'The sign of a developed mind is one in which two opposing ideas can coexist' - Oscar Wilde.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 10/5/2009 2:16:15 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		A submissive can be a leader outside the D/S dynamic...or not.  Some people have a naturally gentle disposition, and these people are not weak or stupid by definition because they don't feel the need to spend their lives bossing other people around.  There is certainly a retarded stereotype that claims that a submissive personality has to be a Limp Wuss Noodle every hour of every day, no matter who he/she is interacting with, or they're "not really submissive".  But the stereotype of the submissive who is Large and In Charge every single place but the bedroom is equally tiresome, in my view, and quite honestly I have seldom seen anyone who even came close to this mythical "Submissive CEO" everyone is always talking about who didn't turn out to be a really godawful sexist condescending topping-from-the-bottom asshole once you got to know him. 

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 10/5/2009 8:59:35 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I expect my subs to be independent people that can function without me---and pick up some of my slack!  Not easy to do if they are incapable of decision making and leading.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 10/6/2009 2:57:01 PM   
IBused


Posts: 93
Joined: 10/4/2009
Status: offline 		any sub can be a leader...just don't follow them into the quicksand.....coz their dumb as shiat when it comes to instincts.....OK, Madame..please take the lead around that roped off area with the "beware sign", I didn't see it, but I will follow you and not talk about leading ever again.  Oooh, Oooh, Oooh, I see a vine on a tree..."follow me."
"NOT, it's a snake you dumbass."

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 10/6/2009 3:02:48 PM   
KYsissy


Posts: 781
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:


Is a submissive still a submissive if they are willing to engage in a leadership role outside of a BDSM relationship? Or rather does being willing to engage in a leadership role mean that the person is dominant?


I am a leader during the day. I have 4 people directly under me and I am always taking the lead with the production crew. The production crew is 20 blue collar guys who would ABSOLUTELY have a field day if they knew I was wearing panties while telling them what to do.

I am a lead from the front kind of guy, I will pick up a drill, or a torch and start in on whatever needs to be done. I am not pushy, or condescending toward my crew. they respect me and I respect them.

But when it comes to Her. I do what I'm told.

< Message edited by KYsissy -- 10/6/2009 3:11:29 PM >

_____________________________

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

(in reply to TheQuizmeister)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 10/6/2009 3:11:33 PM   
IBused


Posts: 93
Joined: 10/4/2009
Status: offline 		hmmmm, no wonder she loves you...a blue collar and panties.  As for me, just blue balls in panties.

(in reply to KYsissy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 10/6/2009 3:13:00 PM   
KYsissy


Posts: 781
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline 		And a mechanical engineering degree.

_____________________________

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935

(in reply to IBused)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Can a sub still be a leader? - 10/6/2009 3:16:36 PM   
IBused


Posts: 93
Joined: 10/4/2009
Status: offline 		Not to be outdone, I have a mechanical menacing degree too, from the fine institute of Hard Knocks....and I still have blue balls...go figure, how to untie this damn knot around them...it is now hurting......Mistress....I know you are near...please, please, please.  Shiat...I did this myself and can't untie the fricken knot.

(in reply to KYsissy)
Profile   Post #: 40
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