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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 6:02:45 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

From my understanding, the "old guard" was primary delegated to the gay leather crowd who had created a set of rituals and protocols that reflected the respect and honor and a unity among the members. To which, the phrase "earning your leather" was born and to some extent that ritual is still carried on today.

It is sad to see many either scoff or deride the elders who identified as "old guard." What is even more disappointing is reading how people of my generation (40's) and younger who find some truth which resonates within and want to learn that tradition and make it a part of their own ethos. Granted the younger generation can't lay claim to being "old guard'" yet maybe we older folks should try to help them learn and understand instead of scoffing at the concept of old guard and the ones who have a genuine interest.

I am certainly not knocking it.
I have been in private email with those in their 70's and 60's for whom cruising was indeed high risk on the streets of San Fran. I have had too many personal friends die of AIDS who also had to endure the stigma attached to their lifestyle. I have had friend s arrested here in the UK for 'cottaging' when there was an underground world when a man's word was his bond and all that held the community together was care and protocol.
Now it seems everyone is 'out', bondage gear is a fashion statement and it's not even necessary to pass as a TG in Berlin. Indeed bender bending is de rigeur. Excuse my wit.. I can mock with alacrity so it seems simply because I can.
But I wouldn't want to go back. I don't like retrograde steps I love and adore the freedoms I have to be able to say I am a non-conformist bitch pf a slave.
Yet I have had only one person write to me on Collar and understand the pun in my user name here since i joined CM. She understood the Old Guard reference to it in my name.
I think we should nurture the young. I think we should mentor them. That is if they feel the need to be nurtured.
Perhaps many do not.
Perhaps it is the veterans who are injured, who have issues and who cannot break with conformity and the conformity that protocol engenders.
Even if we do not understand what rules pertain to protocol, I think we all recognize rudeness and being ridden roughshod.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 7/31/2009 6:04:35 PM >

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Post #: 21

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 7/31/2009 7:22:49 PM

MsFlutter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Old Guard vies with the "old Houses of Europe" as the grand prize winner of the BDSM Bullshit Hall of Fame.

Except that Old Guard might have actually had some sort of truth to it at one time.

Awesome - we have a BDSM Bullshit Hall of Fame. Now I know where to put a few of the bloated, self-important crackpots I've encountered here. Thanks, Animus !!

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 3:08:36 AM

MsFlutter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsFlutter
Awesome - we have a BDSM Bullshit Hall of Fame. Now I know where to put a few of the bloated, self-important crackpots I've encountered here. Thanks, Animus !!

just to clarify, 'here' is CM in general :)

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 12:49:47 PM

SirRussellP

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Old Guard is what many use when they really want to say Old School as opposed to New School.

Old School was what we call the community now that existed before the internet. There was a fairly well defined set of rules and codes of behavior. The group was much smaller but a lot more knowledgeable and we took care of each other.

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 2:23:29 PM

beargonewild

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Prinsexx.....I didn't specifically mean you were knocking the concept of Old Guard. Of tit seemed that way it was my fault for not doing a fast reply and my apologies.My comments wasn't aimed at you or your opinions.

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 4:01:23 PM

AnimusRex

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Nor would I knock the genuine Old Guard, were I to actually meet one. In all sincerity, those brave people who endured social ostracism and arrest in previous decades have my utmost respect.

What DOES deserve ridicule and mockery, with as much derision as can be thrown at it, is the practice of linking oneself to a mythological and heroic past society- as was very much in vogue until very recently.

Many websites had long grave articles talking about "Old Houses"- invariably in Europe- in which slaves and Masters were trained, and many straight men strutted around chatrooms claiming to be trained in the "Old Guard" ways, or made references to secret societies like something out of O or Eyes Wide Shut.

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 4:30:05 PM

leadership527

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*laughs*

Wow Leonidas. And here I was scrolling through this thread thinking, "where oh where is Rover when you need him" and then you show up... perfect!

Well, as I reflected on it, maybe not quite perfect. I think that the "mythical old guard" actually has evolved into something real. Granted, what the current real thing is is based largely on myth and amalgamation, but still, it's real now. And at least some of those folk have to be sincere in their desires rather than simply using it as a way to impress the noobies.

I mean really, is this any different than how real life goreans can be formed based on a fictional book series? Fictional or not, the goings on of such people are, as you know, very real. The fact that some of them use the label as if it were some sort of seal of approval doesn't mean that the majority have any interest in doing so.

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 4:42:40 PM

BOUNTYHUNTER

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~FR~ There is some thing to be said for protocol and tradition,I have tried to add and keep both in my family..I am certainly NOT OG...bounty

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 4:51:00 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

Prinsexx.....I didn't specifically mean you were knocking the concept of Old Guard. Of tit seemed that way it was my fault for not doing a fast reply and my apologies.My comments wasn't aimed at you or your opinions.

Please don't worry. I know the reply button makes it look a certain way sometimes. You actually made me feel quite included.

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 5:09:56 PM

Prinsexx

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Few have inspired my writing more than Jack Rinella.

http://www.leatherviews.com/home.htm

In Kinky Information (see http://www.leatherviews.com/cols/search2.as)

there are samples from 12 years of Rinella’s writings: LeatherViews for Gay Chicago Magazine on a great many topics. There’s a sampling of the topics, and each has a link to a few columns on that topic. You can also enter a key word and do a search of all 12 years. Fabulous and inspiring writing that moves inextricably from the experiential, the informative and psychological aspects of Jack’s life.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 8/1/2009 5:11:32 PM >

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Post #: 30

RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 6:32:49 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Well, as I reflected on it, maybe not quite perfect. I think that the "mythical old guard" actually has evolved into something real. Granted, what the current real thing is is based largely on myth and amalgamation, but still, it's real now. And at least some of those folk have to be sincere in their desires rather than simply using it as a way to impress the noobies.

I mean really, is this any different than how real life goreans can be formed based on a fictional book series? Fictional or not, the goings on of such people are, as you know, very real. The fact that some of them use the label as if it were some sort of seal of approval doesn't mean that the majority have any interest in doing so.

Oh. You know, if there is a real movement afoot that I just disparaged, my apologies. Was a time not long ago anyway, when claiming to be "Old Guard" was definately a nooblet impressor, and nothing more.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that some movement could rise up and organize based on what their (probably idealized) version of how the military inspired post-war leather community was. I think they'd probably get some guff from leather historians who are proud of their knowledge of the term and would probably be a little peeved if it took on a noveau meaning that superceeded the old one.

Does this new "Old Guard" have any literature, or some sort of "nicene creed" of the Old Guard to which one must subscribe to be considered "Old Guard"?

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 6:35:46 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas
Does this new "Old Guard" have any literature, or some sort of "nicene creed" of the Old Guard to which one must subscribe to be considered "Old Guard"?

I honestly don't have a clue given that I'm allergic to protocol *laughs*. But I note on various threads that a noticeable percentage seem to identify this way and, predictably, the vast majority (at least of the posters I've seen here) don't seem to be waving it around like a badge. Maybe someone who actually self-identifies this way will chime in.

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 7:26:26 PM

LadyPact

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Do I actually have to make chiming sounds, or will just a reply do?

Before anyone has a fit, if you've never noticed, I don't call Myself Old Guard. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't recall anyone on these boards that does. What I will say is that I've been taught certain skills and protocols from those who have learned, from those who learned, from those who learned from those in what's come to be known as Old Guard. Like each of them (and like many of you in your own way) I took what I needed and left the rest.

On the matter of Old Guard, I have to admit that I very much agree with the seminar that Master Skip gave recently at Thunder In The Mountains. Since those first clubs after WWII, there's been something of a new wave of BDSM with each era. Just like the era prior to this one is now the old, at one time it was the new, and the old came before them. So in a sense, the folks practicing BDSM today, are going to be something of the Old Guard of tomorrow. Who knows? Maybe they'll do even better than the net and they'll teleport into private dungeons. I don't know. I don't write future fiction.

There are a lot of terms out there for those of us who do use higher protocol. If it's not your kink, fine, don't do it. If you don't like the association of family or community that many leather folks enjoy, hey, stay at home. Nobody is forcing you into, or even asking you to like My kink. It's all good because it works for Me. It happens to work for a lot of other folks as well. What I will ask you is, if you just plain don't know, haven't learned anything about it, or don't see a use in it FOR YOU, that doesn't give you a reason to knock it for others. There seems to be a lot of leather and/or Old Guard bashing these days.

Next time, warn a gal. I'll see if I can't get My net hook up quicker when I move.

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RE: 'Old Guard Protocol'? - 8/1/2009 8:13:09 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Do I actually have to make chiming sounds, or will just a reply do?

*laughs* Well, I was hoping for the chiming sounds... but I just closed my eyes and imagined them as I read.

And I think the term "old guard" in every venue pretty much means the same thing... "Those idiotic practices that our parents did that we're so much smarter about." After that, it becomes traditional and may acquire some sort of mystique. It's kind of like fine furniture. First it's fine. Then it's used and of little value. Then it's an antique and suddenly of great value.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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