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RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/2/2009 3:07:59 AM

NorthernGent

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I think it's a myth and amounts to romanticising the past.

One thing remains constant: people over generations want to work and create a family.

If anything the history of human evolution is one of increased civilisation.

I think it serves a purpose for some people to believe their day was somehow more authentic than the present.

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Post #: 21

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/2/2009 8:28:28 AM

LafayetteLady

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What's going on with kids today isn't the same as when a lot of us here were younger. I have seen schools assign writing projects where spelling and grammar don't count because it would "stifle" the kids creativity. I guess Ernest Hemingway and Mark Twain missed the boat on that one. Many community sporting events for the younger ones don't keep score, because they don't want to damage the self esteem of the little ones. There are winners and losers in life and even these young kids know it because regardless of what the grown ups are saying, these "fragile" little kids know which team scored the most runs.

Today too many parents don't discipline their kids because all the "experts" tell us it will harm them later. So we have a bunch of kids today (not all, but quite a lot) who don't have any responsibility, who have a sense of entitlement that shouldn't exist and have never learned to have respect for anyone. That isn't increased civilization, or a misconception that our generation was more "authentic." It's the cold hard truth. I prefer to think that it is a bunch of people listening to the so called experts as opposed to being to self involved and lazy to deal with their own children, but in all honesty, I believe it is a combination of both.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 22

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/3/2009 2:30:25 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

What's going on with kids today isn't the same as when a lot of us here were younger. I have seen schools assign writing projects where spelling and grammar don't count because it would "stifle" the kids creativity. I guess Ernest Hemingway and Mark Twain missed the boat on that one. Many community sporting events for the younger ones don't keep score, because they don't want to damage the self esteem of the little ones. There are winners and losers in life and even these young kids know it because regardless of what the grown ups are saying, these "fragile" little kids know which team scored the most runs.

Today too many parents don't discipline their kids because all the "experts" tell us it will harm them later. So we have a bunch of kids today (not all, but quite a lot) who don't have any responsibility, who have a sense of entitlement that shouldn't exist and have never learned to have respect for anyone. That isn't increased civilization, or a misconception that our generation was more "authentic." It's the cold hard truth. I prefer to think that it is a bunch of people listening to the so called experts as opposed to being to self involved and lazy to deal with their own children, but in all honesty, I believe it is a combination of both.

Different country but......

The Conservative elements over here love to believe that things aren't what they once were and everything is going to the dogs.

But the fact is that kids have so much more ambition today. During the '50s the norm was to have a job for life and limited career ambitions; these days kids work extremely hard in school and have extensive aspirations.

It really is a political debate - conservatives love to romanticise the past.

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RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/3/2009 7:30:53 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Different country but......

The Conservative elements over here love to believe that things aren't what they once were and everything is going to the dogs.

But the fact is that kids have so much more ambition today. During the '50s the norm was to have a job for life and limited career ambitions; these days kids work extremely hard in school and have extensive aspirations.

It really is a political debate - conservatives love to romanticise the past.

You're right, we are in different countries, and I won't even pretend to know what happens in yours. In the states, some kids are working very hard and have high goals for their lives. Sadly, a majority, will work only as hard as they need to (and yes, I admit sometimes that will be very hard), then feel that they are entitled to their parents paying in full for their college education, during which they will change majors a number of times because they really aren't sure what they want to do. Sure if mom and dad can afford to foot the bill for college, great, but too many think that they shouldn't have to do anything to help along the way. At what point did it become a "necessity" for a parent to buy their kids a car, pay for the insurance, provide them with cell phones and the kid never has to work a day to contribute? Let's not forget that these same kids think that once they finish with that Bachelor of Fine Arts degree, and they have never worked a day in their life, they think an employer should offer them a job with a salary of about 50 grand a year, not an entry level position that pays about half that.

What I do know about your country and most European countries in general....the kids receive a much better education from the start and University was somewhere around 100 bucks a semester last time I checked. Compare that with the yearly tuition of 15-75 grand or better for the colleges and universities here in the states.

When I see young people looking to be teachers not because they want to help tomorrow's leaders learn, but because they have summers off, I say something is wrong.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 24

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/3/2009 7:57:05 PM

DedicatedDom40

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The retirement generation of today, .... oh where to begin......

In 1981, we first topped $1 trillion in foreign debt after 206 years. In 2008, roughly 25 years later, that debt is up to 10 trillion. All of it was money borrowed from future generations, spent as an economic "stimulus" over the past 25 years. In 1981, the Dow had never been above 2,000 points for over 100 years. In 2007, it spiked at 14,600 or so. The people retiring today with fat 401Ks had those 401ks fattened by numerous bubble economies that were enabled by the infusion of 10 trillion of other peoples money.

What we have here is the "theft of the century" being dressed up to look like "values and hard work".

Im having a bit of trouble locating those scruples and "right and wrong awareness" you claim that exists within the elder generation of today.

Im not a fan of Obama's spending patterns, but I do think its funny that the most outspoken doomsday talkers against his $1 trillion combined stimulus are from the generation that grabbed $10 trillion. I can only conclude their anger is related to copyright infringement, as the idea of using uncontrolled government spending as a mechanism to pad the retirement accounts of a generation is a patented process that belongs only to present day retirees.

Yes, our generation runs stop signs. But our parents saw that, and used our wild behavior as an excuse for them to go rob the bank, and then later, in 2003, rob the pharmacy.

< Message edited by DedicatedDom40 -- 8/3/2009 8:17:15 PM >

(in reply to Mistressbinature)

Post #: 25

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/3/2009 8:00:29 PM

marie2

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Your whole premise is one big generalization that assumes that everyone was raised well in the "old days" and now everyone is raised poorly and without a code of ethics or a sense of responsibility. I don't see that trend. I see some good and some bad, just like it's always been.

(in reply to winterlight)

Post #: 26

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/3/2009 8:02:46 PM

slavekal

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Every generation says the same way about the younger one.

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Post #: 27

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/3/2009 8:56:39 PM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: winterlight

What i mean is that we had values, scruples, we knew the difference between right and wrong. today i feel like nobody really cares any more. It starts as simple as running a stop sign. To me, what else is next? The line blurred long ago and i wonder what is next for us as people?
To me what defines you is what you do when nobody is looking..Even though people are looking today i think they don't care...until they get caught...

After spending a week with my mother, after watching my father over the years, after going through old diaries of my grandmother and great grandmother, there is very little difference in morality. The only difference is that we are more open now.

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Post #: 28

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/3/2009 8:58:24 PM

JonnieBoy

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From: Cymru
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quote:

ORIGINAL: winterlight

What i mean is that we had values, scruples, we knew the difference between right and wrong. today i feel like nobody really cares any more. It starts as simple as running a stop sign. To me, what else is next? The line blurred long ago and i wonder what is next for us as people?
To me what defines you is what you do when nobody is looking..Even though people are looking today i think they don't care...until they get caught...

Ouch ... !

I read the OP and nothing else (I don't have to) ... "we had" "we knew" = PAST TENSE.

"our parents" to me is the WORST bit ... who the F is the family you mean here? ... not the one you want to see "you" arriving "home" having "served" (died for) their country ?

I have a shaved head and a neatly trimmed beard, I will despise the PERSON who disdains me for my appearance and judges by human error (like starting a fight by being misunderstood or not spotting the "stop sign" until you're a "criminal").

I read this the way it reads to me ... "Ouch" ... ! was my reaction and my stomach ... churns.

"We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children" ... I took THOSE (or words to the effect) words from a genocided cultural understanding of such things that has sadly been stamped out by "scruples" ... for the most part and expected to conform to the "judgment" of a bunch of animals ("sic")

"The line blurred long ago"

How very apt.

Pirate

(in reply to winterlight)

Post #: 29

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/3/2009 9:22:26 PM

IrishMist

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~FR~

My parents were great people. I can remember only once in my life getting a spanking from my father; and that was when I was 7 and he thought I had walked out the door telling HIM to fuck off when he asked where my mom was. He beat my ass so hard I could not sit down for almost two weeks. AND, I was not a easy child to raise. I was distant, stubborn, cocky, had an attitude bigger than Texas, and ran with street gangs.

I was a senior in high school when they make the decision that 'paddling' in school was no longer allowed because it was demeaning, humiliating, and abusive toward the child who had punched/kicked/walked out of/insulted/threatened and caused a teacher to cry in class.

Uh huh. Good move.

My youngest son was in 8th grade when he got expelled because he had grabbed the back of a shirt of another boy in an effort to stop him from tripping another student who wore leg braces. The school said he assaulted the other student. Two days later, the boy with the leg braces was tripped in the cafetaria by the same boy who my youngest had stopped the first time.

Uh huh. I home schooled my son until he graduated from high school because he said that he wanted nothing to do with an educational system that supported people like that.

I had been with my husband about a month when his oldest son ( who was 16 at the time ) punched me because I told him he could not leave the house at 3 in the morning. I punched him back, threw him from one room into another. He picked himself up from the floor and threatened to call the police. I did one better. I called for him. He never touched or threatened me again. Years later I found out that this was a technique he used on his real mom that always worked. When I refused to give in to it, he actually came to respect me because of it.

I admit that with the youngest girl ( who is now 15 ), I have been real lucky so far. I have yet to have any kind of serious problems with her. I have never had to raise my hand to her; she has never given me a reason to. The thing is though; she knows...KNOWS...that the day she pushes me too far, is the day she learns that while mom may be easy going with her...she is no pushover and is not afraid of what someone else may think when they see me grab her and paddle her behind.

My house. My rules. No one tells me how to raise my own kids. They want to stick their nose in my business...they are going to walk away with alot more than just a broken nose.

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RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/3/2009 10:15:53 PM

KneelforAnne

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I’m really do not agree with this posting at all. LL.

“In the states, some kids are working very hard and have high goals for their lives. Sadly, a majority will work only as hard as they need to (and yes, I admit sometimes that will be very hard)"

Just like in life, in the classrooms you have some kids that try very hard…some that give a medium effort and some that don’t try at all.

Sometimes the students that try the hardest are the ones that are trying to get the teacher to notice them because no one at home does. Some of these kids want to know someone cares about them, even if it’s through bribes of excellent behavior and awesome projects.

Sometimes the ones that gave a midlevel effort have to go home and baby-sit their younger siblings or go to jobs--or their parents have several jobs and there is literally no one home to help them. They really can't finish their homework, because they don't remember how and no one is there to show them.

Sometimes the kids that didn’t try at all are the kids that have money but absent parents.

Sometimes the kid that didn’t do the project at all is so poor that his parents can’t afford the poster board, markers or crayons and he’s too embarrassed to say anything-- and will rather take the “F” than let his friends know his parents can’t buy school supplies.

You can’t know the individual story of every child you’re judging with such a statement.

You don’t know these children. You don’t know the pressures they have.

Yes, I’m sure that people of the past had pressures too… but really…how concerned were you at 12 that your father lost his job?

How many kids have you had break down and cry and tell you how they don’t want to move away from their friends and their hometown because their father got laid off and their church can’t pay their mortgage any longer?

Maybe I’m wrong…maybe you did worry about all of those things.

But don’t tell me that it’s easy for them.

And don’t tell me that they feel entitled, like little brats.

Painting them all with the same brush is the same as painting all submissives as SAMs and all Doms as jerks.

then feel that they are entitled to their parents paying in full for their college education, during which they will change majors a number of times because they really aren't sure what they want to do.

Did you know what you wanted to do for the rest of your life at 18 years old? If you did, then kudos.

I didn’t.

That’s a long span of time to look down and wonder what you’re going to fill it with.

GOD FORBID you choose the wrong major, or a wrong career and have to go BACK to college…what a waste you would be!

Sure if mom and dad can afford to foot the bill for college, great, but too many think that they shouldn't have to do anything to help along the way.

This is a blanket statement, and they are rarely all right or all wrong.

Sure you have kids that feel entitled. But… do you want to know WHY they feel entitled? That’s because mommy and daddy raised them to feel entitled.

Thus, if a child feels entitled to all of those things--it's their parents fault.

At what point did it become a "necessity" for a parent to buy their kids a car, pay for the insurance, provide them with cell phones and the kid never has to work a day to contribute?

It became a necessity when their parents couldn’t handle the whining and screaming and tantrums any longer. And let’s be clear. They were raised thinking that tantrums, screaming and whining gets them things.

Plenty of children have jobs. Today, off the top of my head, I went to the grocery where a girl of about 16 ran my groceries through a scanner and a boy of about 14 bagged my groceries.

I think you’re seeing what you want to see.

Let's not forget that these same kids think that once they finish with that Bachelor of Fine Arts degree, and they have never worked a day in their life,

Everyone I knew in college had at least a part time job, if not a full time job and an internship--and most internships didn't pay anything.

On top of classes, jobs and internships most college students that I know/ knew also participated in extra activities (including but not limited to volunteering in the community) so that their resumes looked more impressive to prospective employers.

I don't think the stereotypical, lazy college student is as lazy as they seem.

they think an employer should offer them a job with a salary of about 50 grand a year, not an entry level position that pays about half that.

At this point, it’s safe to say that they are no longer kids. And let them think that all they want, reality will set in.

Perhaps they feel these things because they are young and idealistic? Perhaps they have seen too many movies? Maybe they've been told all of their lives that college is the golden key to life and they're a little disillusioned when it turns out to be just another step on their personal journey.

When I see young people looking to be teachers not because they want to help tomorrow's leaders learn, but because they have summers off, I say something is wrong.

Well, when I see people wanting to be the next Bill Gates for his fabulous fortune, should that be considered wrong as well?

When I see people wanting to be models for the great clothes…is that wrong?

How about basketball players for the fame/ money? Or...do you think they're truly in it for the love of the game?

It’s a perk.

If you go into teaching to get your summers off -- newsflash-- you hardly ever get a whole one off.

If you’re not teaching summer classes, or taking enrichment classes or working on advanced degrees (and let’s be honest here, most teachers are extremely overqualified for what they do)-- or doing any combination of the above or more-- then you’re probably working a part time job somewhere to stash a little extra cash.

People who go into teaching for the summers off rarely last. They quickly realize that if they don't love it... it's not worth it.

~anne

**ETA who I was responding to.**
***Edited again for spacing issues***

< Message edited by KneelforAnne -- 8/3/2009 10:39:41 PM >

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RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/4/2009 7:45:23 AM

IrishMist

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KneelforAnne

that was an excellent post

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RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/4/2009 10:42:33 AM

pahunkboy

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There is an approximate 80 year cycle. That is likely worse now since TVs raise the current generation. Hence the wisdom of the elders is not passed down per the tribe.

We are SO in trouble- when you consider it from this perspective.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 33

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/4/2009 1:23:41 PM

windchymes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

KneelforAnne

that was an excellent post

Yours was pretty awesome, too, Mist :)

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RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/4/2009 2:19:22 PM

DedicatedDom40

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

There is an approximate 80 year cycle. That is likely worse now since TVs raise the current generation. Hence the wisdom of the elders is not passed down per the tribe.

We are SO in trouble- when you consider it from this perspective.

The retirement generation of today is the biggest "scorched earth" generation (financially speaking) in the history of this country. Thats a new twist. Since when are scorched earthers ever known for passing things down?

.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 35

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/4/2009 2:44:17 PM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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there is a sense of entitlement.

But there is also- a realization- that they will be stuck holding the bag.

Social Security- is not expected to be around- many young people think.

A good portion of them also feel the adults are out to get them- by tactics of RIAA. But there is a problem with that...some of those kids can outmaneuver teckwise- many of us online.

I grew up in a spoiled suburban area.    The kids were bratty beyond belief.

So today- I doubt it is much worse then back then.   One note- my high school did not need metal detectors at the doors.

Look at the world we are leaving to the younger crowd.     We have outsourced- and stripped our decent wage jobs.   Leaving bare bones.   Then we let inflation eat away at purchasing power.
The irony is- the pitiful world we leave to the young folks- those are the folks who will decide on medicare policy - and elder care issues right when it directly will effect us.

So- being that no one is ever responsible for anything.....
it wont be surprised when the fake flu vaccines- we wear out the immune system- and that combined with other eugenics policies - will dull down and delete many of us "useless eaters".

The ideal population on the planet is 500,000,000.    Per haps as high as 1 billion.    But- what makes anyone sure- that they are not a useless eater?   Will be among the 500,000,000 that area allowed- or chosen - to "live"

(in reply to DedicatedDom40)

Post #: 36

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/4/2009 3:03:10 PM

LillyoftheVally

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quote:

ORIGINAL: winterlight

What i mean is that we had values, scruples, we knew the difference between right and wrong. today i feel like nobody really cares any more. It starts as simple as running a stop sign. To me, what else is next? The line blurred long ago and i wonder what is next for us as people?
To me what defines you is what you do when nobody is looking..Even though people are looking today i think they don't care...until they get caught...

Ahhh back in the day, when I was younger, I remember when... it is very easy to fall into that, I am only 23 and have been guilty of it. But as to what you are asking I think you are very wrong to say that people do no have values, they may have values different to your own. Also I believe that most know the difference between right and wrong.

Now is no different from 10,20,30 etc years ago. In Britain when my dad was young there were distinct groups, my dad was a suede head and other groups would beat them up because they liked different music or wore different clothes. It is easy to wear rose tinted glasses.

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RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/4/2009 7:40:13 PM

KneelforAnne

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Thank you.

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Post #: 38

RE: Do you feel that most people today are not like how... - 8/4/2009 7:49:21 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

What i mean is that we had values, scruples, we knew the difference between right and wrong. today i feel like nobody really cares any more. It starts as simple as running a stop sign. To me, what else is next? The line blurred long ago and i wonder what is next for us as people?
To me what defines you is what you do when nobody is looking..Even though people are looking today i think they don't care...until they get caught...

Well no, I disagree with this. When my parents grew up in the late 1940's and throughout the 1950's, blacks were being lynched routinely. My mother went to a segregated school in Georgia, and remembers blacks having to stand on the bus when the whites took up all the seats. My father grew up in a tiny little town in West Virginia. A sign coming into town read, "Nigger don't let the sun shine on you."

When I was growing up in the 80's, homosexuality wasn't something that was accepted in middle America. I'll admit having a prejudice against gays when I was a kid. Everyone in my little, rural community did. My opinion started changing when I went to college and was exposed to other ideas. We are a lot more of a open society now. Of course there are negatives that come about because of that. But all in all, I think the positives outweigh those negatives. So no, I don't think we have less values than those in the past. Our values have simply changed.

(in reply to winterlight)

Post #: 39

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