RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President?

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/5/2009 5:11:17 PM)
The source of the question poses a problem, but the reference pragmatic issue it raises doesn't? quote: “You want us to believe that a government that can’t even run a cash for clunkers program is going to run 1/7th of our U.S. economy?” Well, do you believe it? Seems to be indicative of this administration's MO. No thought or plan to handle the results, good or bad, just implement a program where all the repercussions and consequences haven't been been thought through; Bush Stimulus II, Afghanistan, Bail-outs, Unemployment. Gee - the 'Cash for Cluckers' worked! Who would have thought!? Obviously not this administration. But let us take over the health care for 260 Million currently with coverage, because 40 Million don't. Yup - I guess I can see why posing that question MUST be a right winged conspiracy to make the Administration 'look bad'!? [sm=biggrin.gif] Sorry, I don't watch FOX so I don't know if I'm hitting on an FOX talking point. I'm sure you'll find a link if I am. PS - The program did wonders for our trade deficit too. 'ya know - I appreciate that the Administration and Congress needs 1000 pages to help bury their pork, but one sentence, "THIS PROGRAM CAN ONLY BE USED FOR US MADE VEHICLES" would have done the job. Granted, some foreign corporations do make or assemble cars in the US - but since our tax dollars went to bailing out GM and Chrysler - why not require that GM, Chrysler and Ford be the only qualifying cars? FOREIGN SALES quote: Four of the top five models sold so far under the U.S. “cash for clunkers” program, aimed at boosting the auto industry, are made by foreign automakers, according to Transportation Department data. Ford Motor Co.’s Focus was the top seller, followed by Toyota Motor Corp.’s Corolla, Honda Motor Co.’s Civic and Toyota’s Prius and Camry, data from the department showed today.

servantforuse -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/5/2009 8:17:21 PM)
The trial lawyers that gave millions to Obama would not like the made in the USA disclaimer. They also do not want anything to do with Tort reform. It's not heard of either..

cadenas -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 12:16:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth The source of the question poses a problem, but the reference pragmatic issue it raises doesn't? quote: “You want us to believe that a government that can’t even run a cash for clunkers program is going to run 1/7th of our U.S. economy?” Well, do you believe it? The most successful stimulus program so far is not working? I'm sure that's news for quite a few people. It is, of course, a Fox talking point (as the original context stated) rather than a fact. quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth PS - The program did wonders for our trade deficit too. 'ya know - I appreciate that the Administration and Congress needs 1000 pages to help bury their pork, but one sentence, "THIS PROGRAM CAN ONLY BE USED FOR US MADE VEHICLES" would have done the job. Granted, some foreign corporations do make or assemble cars in the US - but since our tax dollars went to bailing out GM and Chrysler - why not require that GM, Chrysler and Ford be the only qualifying cars? FOREIGN SALES quote: Four of the top five models sold so far under the U.S. “cash for clunkers” program, aimed at boosting the auto industry, are made by foreign automakers, according to Transportation Department data. Ford Motor Co.’s Focus was the top seller, followed by Toyota Motor Corp.’s Corolla, Honda Motor Co.’s Civic and Toyota’s Prius and Camry, data from the department showed today. Ford Focus used to be made in Hermosillo, Mexico. Corolla are manufactured in California. Civic are manufactured in Ohio, soon to move to Indiana Camry are manufactured in Kentucky Prius will be made in Mississippi starting next year - currently, it is the only foreign-made car on your list. There even was talk about it being made under contract in a GM plant in California! And GM and Chrysler both make many cars (especially the smaller cars that the cash-for-clunkers program targeted) for the US market in Canada as well as Mexico. So you are right that "granted, some foreign corporations make or assemble cars in the USA". And some domestic corporations make cars outside the USA. GM and Chrysler don't really have many suitable cars to begin with, now that Saturn is gone.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 2:56:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cadenas The most successful stimulus program so far is not working? I'm sure that's news for quite a few people. It is, of course, a Fox talking point (as the original context stated) rather than a fact. that it IS working is an Obama talking point and far from reality. quote: Ford Focus used to be made in Hermosillo, Mexico. Corolla are manufactured in California. Civic are manufactured in Ohio, soon to move to Indiana Camry are manufactured in Kentucky Prius will be made in Mississippi starting next year - currently, it is the only foreign-made car on your list. There even was talk about it being made under contract in a GM plant in California! And GM and Chrysler both make many cars (especially the smaller cars that the cash-for-clunkers program targeted) for the US market in Canada as well as Mexico. So you are right that "granted, some foreign corporations make or assemble cars in the USA". And some domestic corporations make cars outside the USA. GM and Chrysler don't really have many suitable cars to begin with, now that Saturn is gone. follow the money. Where a car is assembled is only a small part of the story. Where do the parts come from? Where do the profits go? A stimulus isnt a stimulus unless the money is reinvested in the US.

MmeGigs -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 4:56:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Do you really think those steps arent being taken in all areas of practice already? Yes, I really do think that those steps aren't being taken. If these things were commonplace, they wouldn't be making the news. Instead we'd be hearing about how malpractice costs are decreasing, as they have for those practitioners who have put these things in place.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 10:00:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MmeGigs quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Do you really think those steps arent being taken in all areas of practice already? Yes, I really do think that those steps aren't being taken. If these things were commonplace, they wouldn't be making the news. Instead we'd be hearing about how malpractice costs are decreasing, as they have for those practitioners who have put these things in place. Beep, wrong answer. Just one of many studies on risk mitigation in the JAMA: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/277/7/553

Politesub53 -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 10:10:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: MmeGigs quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Do you really think those steps arent being taken in all areas of practice already? Yes, I really do think that those steps aren't being taken. If these things were commonplace, they wouldn't be making the news. Instead we'd be hearing about how malpractice costs are decreasing, as they have for those practitioners who have put these things in place. Beep, wrong answer. Just one of many studies on risk mitigation in the JAMA: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/277/7/553 So posting a link dated 1997 has a bearing on the current situation then ?

Mercnbeth -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 10:14:28 AM)
quote: The most successful stimulus program so far is not working? Never has a response so supported the other side of the argument. The "most successful" stimulus program: Didn't plan for the response Didn't allocate enough money Caused confusion and frustration from both the dealer and customer perspectives Failed to include consideration of enhancing US manufacturing interests Making this question appropriate - regardless of its point of origin. “You want us to believe that a government that can’t even run a cash for clunkers program is going to run 1/7th of our U.S. economy?”

philosophy -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 10:54:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: The most successful stimulus program so far is not working? Never has a response so supported the other side of the argument. The "most successful" stimulus program: Didn't plan for the response Didn't allocate enough money Caused confusion and frustration from both the dealer and customer perspectives Failed to include consideration of enhancing US manufacturing interests Making this question appropriate - regardless of its point of origin. “You want us to believe that a government that can’t even run a cash for clunkers program is going to run 1/7th of our U.S. economy?” ....just a thought, but maybe the US government just hasn't had a lot of practise putting into place programs that are actually designed to help ordinary people. At least by European standards. Give them a bit of time to get their heads around the idea. You never know, by the time they actually get around to a civilised health care system they may have figured out more of the bugs.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 11:02:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: MmeGigs quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Do you really think those steps arent being taken in all areas of practice already? Yes, I really do think that those steps aren't being taken. If these things were commonplace, they wouldn't be making the news. Instead we'd be hearing about how malpractice costs are decreasing, as they have for those practitioners who have put these things in place. Beep, wrong answer. Just one of many studies on risk mitigation in the JAMA: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/277/7/553 So posting a link dated 1997 has a bearing on the current situation then ? Of course it does. It counters the argument that other medical disciplines havent been as diligent as radiologists in examining best practices, and have been doing it for years.

cadenas -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 2:55:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: The most successful stimulus program so far is not working? Never has a response so supported the other side of the argument. The "most successful" stimulus program: Didn't plan for the response I think you are referring to the fact that the government implemented this plan very quickly the way a private company would, and as a result had a minor glitch with servers overloading? Also as a private company would? Are you basically saying that you prefer a government that takes six months to issue regulations and another two years to put a plan into action? quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Didn't allocate enough money How is "works better than expected" "not working?" quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Caused confusion and frustration from both the dealer and customer perspectives Failed to include consideration of enhancing US manufacturing interests The confusion can't have been that bad, or it wouldn't have been so successful. Since four of the top five cars are US made, it seems that it enhanced US manufacturing just fine. In any case, GM and Chrysler don't really have suitable cars in their lineup, so of the big-three, Ford was the only one that could benefit in the first place.

Slavehandsome -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 3:03:15 PM)
The 'stimulus' was never designed to kickstart the U.S. economy. Rather, under Bush as well as Hussein, its about shoveling tax dollars into bankers' hands. The program was a success, and we should expect more of the same until somebody makes it less than worthwhile for them to be in that business.

tazzygirl -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 3:11:44 PM)
You mean like this? Report: U.S. mortgage partners face suits

Mercnbeth -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 3:30:20 PM)
quote: I think you are referring to the fact that the government implemented this plan very quickly the way a private company would, and as a result had a minor glitch with servers overloading? Also as a private company would? No, I'm referring to results and the obvious lack of planning and anticipating results. I do compare it to the attempt, under the direct mandate by the Administration, to implement a health care program "very quickly". The result with this relatively minor attempt indicates the ability of the Administration to think through repercussions for their policies. I'd be interested to see a similar attempt by any "private company". However there is a major distinction that should be considered in any comparison. A private company, at least up until recent history, would suffer economically or fail as a result of such poor planning. The product and/or program goes away. The 'Edsel' being an example. When the government is involved, failure produces more bureaucracy and continued failure funded by tax dollars. Pick any government entity as an example similar to the Edsel. quote: Are you basically saying that you prefer a government that takes six months to issue regulations and another two years to put a plan into action? No. I am saying that government should govern and/or regulate and stay out of implementing Fascist policies.

DomKen -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 3:33:40 PM)
Yeah CARS was a total failure. Just ask those dealership owners and employees whose businesses and jobs aren't in immediate danger anymore.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 3:51:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Yeah CARS was a total failure. Just ask those dealership owners and employees whose businesses and jobs aren't in immediate danger anymore. DK, the reference was toward it's administration - not the program. Quick, not thought out, and underfunded; considering its relatively minor impact not a good reference for how well the government, especially this Administration, plans. Sorry to have confused you.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 4:08:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Yeah CARS was a total failure. Just ask those dealership owners and employees whose businesses and jobs aren't in immediate danger anymore. A temporary reprieve at best. All it did was accelerate the purchase decision a few months, and most of those cars came out of inventory. If the car companies have learned their lesson they will not step up production until after demand returns to normal, after this artficial run.

DomKen -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 4:52:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Yeah CARS was a total failure. Just ask those dealership owners and employees whose businesses and jobs aren't in immediate danger anymore. DK, the reference was toward it's administration - not the program. Quick, not thought out, and underfunded; considering its relatively minor impact not a good reference for how well the government, especially this Administration, plans. Sorry to have confused you. You do know that the amount of money allocated to the program was reduced due to demands by republican house members? So if you have any complaints about the size of the program you need to start by asking Boehner why he and his caucus demanded it be smaller than the initial proposal.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 5:02:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Yeah CARS was a total failure. Just ask those dealership owners and employees whose businesses and jobs aren't in immediate danger anymore. DK, the reference was toward it's administration - not the program. Quick, not thought out, and underfunded; considering its relatively minor impact not a good reference for how well the government, especially this Administration, plans. Sorry to have confused you. You do know that the amount of money allocated to the program was reduced due to demands by republican house members? So if you have any complaints about the size of the program you need to start by asking Boehner why he and his caucus demanded it be smaller than the initial proposal. mmmm...because it was a bad idea to start with?

Mercnbeth -> RE: Is This What America Voted For In Voting Obama As President? (8/6/2009 5:07:57 PM)
quote: You do know that the amount of money allocated to the program was reduced due to demands by republican house members? So if you have any complaints about the size of the program you need to start by asking Boehner why he and his caucus demanded it be smaller than the initial proposal. No plurality, no ability to filibuster, no way to impact any policy or implemented plan; you'll have to find another scapegoat - at least for another year and a half. I have no complaints, only making a pragmatic observation.

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