RE: Define God

RE: Define God (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Rule -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 2:47:20 PM)
To define the Divine?

tazzygirl -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 2:50:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl lol all i know is that i find this rather amusing. my belief is my belief, and it requires no one's understanding, no one's acceptance, no one's approval.. other than my own. see how truly simple it is? That is what racists say. A movie/documentary which I believe you can find on youtube is relevant, "Hitler: Rise To Power(2003)" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtutF36Rn5I (The link is a strange home made trailer I found). By the time his beliefs were challenged it was obviously not too late as they were crushed. However, much damage was done. The fact is irrational beliefs lead to irrational actions. This is so well understood by modern psychology that it is not out of line to be called a law. Personal irrational beliefs which left unchallenged have lead to oppression and slaughter of tens of millions I do not see why people are so afraid to intelligently and rationally examine their core beliefs. The only reason such examination is not made is because it would demonstrate they are irrational - no one likes to feel irrational. I will let you chime in with the last word as I am done with this discussion it is off topic. You only started so you could take a jab or two - so may have the last, princessTT.. If you wish to discuss personal belief in another thread I think it would be a meaningful discussion. unlike a racist who hates without reason... i do not hate. nor do i feel compelled to play your games. you belittle those who responded to your thread and feel youself superior. i say... you are entitled to feel that way. as i am entitled to look upon you with pity. i have no desire to be better than anyone else.

Esinn -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 3:07:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Louve00 quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads. Based on reading some of your posts, I think you're intelligent enough to understand what God is to some people. Its if you're willing to truly understand what that meaning is to them, and for them to understand what it/He does or doesn't mean to you, that will bring about an intelligent conversation. Some think people that believe, believe in make-believe, imagined things somewhere "up there", and dismiss it as that. I think as potent as the thought of believing can be to some, it can be the same for non-believers. I believe this.... I believe in the power of belief. I believe if you believe in a power, or a thing, or a thought strong enough your energy, your momentum, your mind will and can be soothed by it. If you have enough faith in a thing in the name of anything...God, yourself, your spouse, your body, an energy that floats around that we feed off of, whatever. I believe if you believe in it, you will pull your power from it. Some call that mind over matter. But I believe thats what faith is based on. You can call it God, Allah, Jehovah, whatever, but what you expect from that personal belief (to me) would be the bigger question. If that belief gives you the comfort, guts, fortitude or whatever it is that enables you to go on, than that (I would think) is a good belief. As far as defining God goes, well....I would bet you could ask that question to a whole bunch of different people and get different answers, depending on who or where you were asking the question. I also believe all those different answers would be neither right or wrong nor all right and wrong. I think different people believe in different things. Some for the same reasons, some for different reasons. But, whats most important to remember is, they are beliefs. A subjective creation of the internal mind which is powerless to have external force beyond the actions of the individual believer. - god I presented the laws of logic. You did not to debate them. This seems to imply you accept them. Yet, you desire to debate the validity of a belief which one can not define or which has logical inconsistencies or contradictions . This seems to suggest you only choose to be logical when it can prove or justify what you are saying. --It is like someone who never breaks the law. They just speed when they need to get somewhere quickly. Beliefs are often wrong. Beliefs are often flawed, in fact so often flawed there is a term for it - a fallacy. Beliefs are often based upon incorrect thinking, in fact so frequently there is a entire 'school' of psychology dedicated to it -Cognitive Behavior Therapy(CBT). The fact that because a belief makes you feel this should be viewed as acceptance it is true or that is it is ok is wrong. --Many people have the belief they will not get into a car wreck. The reason the majority of such car wrecks happen is because they were accidents(careless or not is another topic). --These people with these beliefs are able to justify not carrying car insurance, it will not happen to me I am careful - so why bother.. You and I are forced to pay for it. That is an analogy - one of hundreds that crossed my mind. It is not intended to be taken literally or as an absolute. Rather draw attention to the danger of false belief which give one: guts, power, pride or purpose. -E

liks2plzlf -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 3:15:23 PM)
If there is no God, then the Israeli army is the most lethal on the planet.

Level -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 3:25:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn quote: ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957 quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn quote: ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957 I don't really think of the Goddess/God I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense. One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included. Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from. "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by. Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too. Keeps me on my toes. LOL? You are kidding right? Okay. What's so funny? Go ahead. Be an asshole. The reason I said "in my mind anyway" is because I know there are gazillions of people who disagree with me & I also know that's their right. I don't laugh at you and ask if you're kidding. You ASKED for definitions of God, and that was mine. If you don't like it, that's fine, but you don't have to be rude and insulting about it. My definiton works fine for me and that's what matters. As long as anyone's definition works for them, that's what really matters. As a matter of fact, I think you are a troll, here to irritate the shit outta people on purpose. No more & no less. So, with that in mind, go have an aerial sexual experience with a mobile perforated pastry. Think about that one for awhile & if you can't figure it out, just ask. I will me mooooore than happy to tell you what it means. [:D] The fact I want to look at intelligently or question it is not justification to suggest I am a troll or hateful. No, but your initial response to her does.

servantforuse -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 4:08:36 PM)
I hope God tells Isreal to wipe out Iran....Problem solved..

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 4:15:24 PM)
Thank you, Level, for telling him that. ~big hugs~ I think he knew that his original post was "troll-worthy." I really am just dying to tell him what the perforated pastry comment really means, but I was trying to be nice about it. lmao ~ Oops. edited to delete a sentence.~

tazzygirl -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 4:26:50 PM)
Atheist Becomes Theist 5 Proofs for the Existence of God Just some links i found interesting.

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 4:52:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn quote: ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957 I don't really think of the Goddess/God I believe in in a visual sense, but more in a feelings/presence sense. One will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of diety, but for me it's a way to explain the existence of everything else, myself included. Also it gives me a sturdy (in my mind anyway) set of beliefs and ethics to operate from. "An it harm none, do what ye will" is what I try to live by. Pretty simple on the one hand, yet it can be difficult at times too. Keeps me on my toes. LOL? You are kidding right? quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl LOL.. want to upset people? say God or Jesus or Allah or any other related "being" what is it about religion that scares so many people? ot reduces most to belittling, petty people who can seem to do nothing but try and rip apart something that have no clue about. just a hint... no matter what definition you rip apart, no matter how you try and demoralize people for their belief... you cant destroy a belief. I am not attempting to rip apart or demoralize anyone. That seems like you intend to upset me. I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads. What was the purpose of you replying here? How does religion scaring people relate to the OP? The only people I know who are truly afraid of religion are theists. If you're not "attempting to rip apart or demoralize anyone," then why do you ASK for people's definition of God and then judge them for it? This is why I think you are a troll. You purposely asked a specific question, and you knew you would get answers which you could then judge and rip apart. Whether you agree or not, I think you were purposely trying to stir up shit. In an earlier post of mine in this thread, I did not call you hateful, but I did say you were being an asshole, which I stand by.....in my opinion, anyone who purposely tries to stir up shit and cause discord, is being an asshole.....and a troll.

Louve00 -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 5:17:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn A subjective creation of the internal mind which is powerless to have external force beyond the actions of the individual believer. - god I presented the laws of logic. You did not to debate them. This seems to imply you accept them. Yet, you desire to debate the validity of a belief which one can not define or which has logical inconsistencies or contradictions . This seems to suggest you only choose to be logical when it can prove or justify what you are saying. --It is like someone who never breaks the law. They just speed when they need to get somewhere quickly. Beliefs are often wrong. Beliefs are often flawed, in fact so often flawed there is a term for it - a fallacy. Beliefs are often based upon incorrect thinking, in fact so frequently there is a entire 'school' of psychology dedicated to it -Cognitive Behavior Therapy(CBT). The fact that because a belief makes you feel this should be viewed as acceptance it is true or that is it is ok is wrong. --Many people have the belief they will not get into a car wreck. The reason the majority of such car wrecks happen is because they were accidents(careless or not is another topic). --These people with these beliefs are able to justify not carrying car insurance, it will not happen to me I am careful - so why bother.. You and I are forced to pay for it. That is an analogy - one of hundreds that crossed my mind. It is not intended to be taken literally or as an absolute. Rather draw attention to the danger of false belief which give one: guts, power, pride or purpose. -E First, I didn't realize you were presenting the "laws of logic". You were claiming to seek the definition of God, to which I still say that definition will vary from individual to individual. If you don't have the tolerance to accept that, then its likely you will always feel you are right and everyone else is wrong and as a result, will always be waiting for people to catch up with you. As long as you realize you will have a long wait, then we're both happy. It's one thing to believe or ask what belief is by the way of "God". It's a whole other thing to dispute anyone's answer to that, though. I answered in a way that proved me neither right or wrong because as I said, there really IS no right or wrong when it comes to religious or political beliefs. They are beliefs. Beliefs held by each and every individual for either same or different reasons. I can understand that and accept it. Can you?

Esinn -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 5:34:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Atheist Becomes Theist 5 Proofs for the Existence of God Just some links i found interesting. LOL - I just spit my grilled cheese on the monitor when I read your 5 proofs for god. All of those arguments have been refuted thousands of times for well over 150 years and you trumpet them like they are new. If you want to open a new thread I will gladly discuss and demonstrate why they are wrong. I doubt you are even in the mood for logical or rational discussion though.

tazzygirl -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 5:43:48 PM)
LOL.. i said it was interesting.. i didnt say i believed it! i also notice you dont mention the other... no matter. Belief and faith cannot be changed based merely upon a discussion/debate. Psychologists cannot agree on the topic.. Courts hate ruling on it... Scientists cant prove or disprove it... even Religious leaders cant agree... and you want to debate? lol

Esinn -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 10:41:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl LOL.. i said it was interesting.. i didnt say i believed it! i also notice you dont mention the other... no matter. Belief and faith cannot be changed based merely upon a discussion/debate. Psychologists cannot agree on the topic.. Courts hate ruling on it... Scientists cant prove or disprove it... even Religious leaders cant agree... and you want to debate? lol (This is really only a 2 minute read. It is an insightful, articulate and a meaningful beat down of the words above. It seems daunting because of the links & spacing - check it 'yo!) Complete and total BS, PrincessTT. I do not think it is your fault though. The modern understanding of belief is not something commonly discussed outside the scientific community. Neuroscience has found specific areas of the brain which activate when discussing religious belief. This region is responsible for the euphoric or 'godly' feelings we experience when we think about or share belief, the cause is internal not external.. We active specific areas of our brain to create conceptual art(art only existing in our mind) to give it life on paper. We also access specific areas of our brain when we discuss our belief in the unknowable(gods) to give them "life". http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=000104711 http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2589-paranormal-beliefs-linked-to-brain-chemistry.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/jun/30/psychology.neuroscience ("Belief has been a most powerful component of human nature that has somewhat been neglected," says Peter Halligan, a psychologist at Cardiff University. "But it has been capitalised on by marketing agents, politics and religion for the best part of two millennia.. . . That is changing") http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080515212112.htm http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a714013137 - this is not relevant to the discussion but relevant regardless. http://www.amazon.com/Neuropsychological-Bases-Beliefs-Michael-Persinger/dp/0275926486#reader http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/ftinterface~content=a713690607~fulltext=713240930 This is from Time: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1694723,00.html As far as psychology. . . Even Freud was outspoken about the dangers of religion: "Religion is an illusion and it derives its strength from the fact that it falls in with our instinctual desires." --Sigmund Freud, New Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis,1933. http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-58119451.html - about articles on false belief. I have not personally looked at these. (You can search for the hundreds of peer reviewed articles on your own. I would suggest you keep this study focused within the last 10 years) http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=K2xS27xyT0vG1rGBSywQhN60LR3Wp55ngzhK7hn4THHQBgyr3N14!-1042068674!299803806?docId=77025160 - this is a hum-dinger! As I mentioned earlier in this thread their is an entire field dedicated to dealing with incorrect, illogical, irrational or damaging personal core beliefs - Cognitive Behavior Therapy. A premise and 'law' of psychology as demonstrated by this field is beliefs lead to action and are the cause of emotion - years past we did not have the science to back it up now we do. Psychology also has a book known as the diagnostic statistic manual(Commonly called the bible of mental illness) it is dedicated to examining, understanding and treating mentally ill people. Many of these illnesses or unstable emotions are directly linked to beliefs. Logic leaves no room for flawed or broken beliefs either. Any belief no matter how strong the personal commitment to it, if it violates the three laws of logic it is meaningless. As for as courts disliking to rule on it. I have not heard that one. Possibly you can provide us with material where judges acknowledge the fact they hate to rule on it. Anthropologists have some to say about the evolution of belief as well. Evolutionary biology will also have it's say. I get it is not fully understood. However, it is no longer a mysterious, taboo or an off limit's topic. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest we will not completely comprehend how and why some people's brains desire, create, cling to or need belief. As a child we relied on imaginary friends. As adults gods/supernatural things become these ultimate protectors. We as humans rely on logic every waking moment of our life. Oddly enough we do not apply this logic to our beliefs, this is where some trouble comes in. When beliefs are looked at logically they typically fall apart or can be recognized as harmful and 'delt' with. However, beliefs are core to our personal nature, controlling our actions and emotions as demonstrated by CBT. Psychologically speaking it is a trying and painful process to challenge our beliefs especially when it is one deeply rooted by family or culture It has been a taboo for thousands of years to question, wish to examine, or constructively criticize the beliefs of ourselves or others. The trump card, "this is my belief not yours and I believe what I want - nay nay boo boo" has always been played; it is for this reason science has not been presented the opportunity to examine. The danger of false belief it's impact on personal emotions, action and psychological states along with the area of the brain responsible for this are now known. Because of this modern day understanding which we did not have 100 years ago , beliefs are up for extremely critical examination. You mentioned the word 'faith'. I do not understand this term either. I was involved in a good discussion with another CM member but the thread became too cluttered, I will try again. quote: Belief and faith cannot be changed based merely upon a discussion/debate. Firstly I do not desire to change anyone's beliefs. There are 15 million non theists living in this country - we need no more converts. However, I will make every attempt to discuss logically why I might be wrong - the truth does not hinge on conversion.. I was tempted to say the only method we have for transfer of knowledge is discussion. However, that is false. Discussion(interaction) with other humans does take the lions share though. As this is the case it is logical to extrapolate discussion is the top 5 methods deployed. The question is are people willing to logically examine their belief. 90% of the non-theist I have met in this country were a theists. Statistically speaking this is very likely and it was through discussion and strength they changed. Unlike their counterparts they frequently have pictures or old religious dogma stuffed away in a drawer as memories. I have pictures of many years of my life where I was actively forced to pursue beliefs I was too young to comprehend. I bet the vast majority of objections nit-pick the final paragraph and ignore the rest - this is how the mechanism of belief protects itself. I did present a lot of information but it was out of necessity. I will be less verbose in my next responses but would like to if possible discuss the material as a whole.

Brain -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 11:06:38 PM)
Watch Who Wrote The Bible? (1/12) Who Wrote the Bible? Is the Bible the Word of God? Why is the Bible full of Contradictions? This documentary explores questions at the heart of the great Christian faith in a fair open-minded fashion. It is NOT meant to be inflamatory but informative. The truth one will see is the Bible is NOT what it is thought to be. So what is the Bible? Find out! Now since we can see Christianity is not what we thought it was, we can try and learn about Islam, a religion that many equate with terrorism. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suseKsLEWKo

Esinn -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 11:16:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Louve00 quote: ORIGINAL: Esinn A subjective creation of the internal mind which is powerless to have external force beyond the actions of the individual believer. - god I presented the laws of logic. You did not to debate them. This seems to imply you accept them. Yet, you desire to debate the validity of a belief which one can not define or which has logical inconsistencies or contradictions . This seems to suggest you only choose to be logical when it can prove or justify what you are saying. --It is like someone who never breaks the law. They just speed when they need to get somewhere quickly. Beliefs are often wrong. Beliefs are often flawed, in fact so often flawed there is a term for it - a fallacy. Beliefs are often based upon incorrect thinking, in fact so frequently there is a entire 'school' of psychology dedicated to it -Cognitive Behavior Therapy(CBT). The fact that because a belief makes you feel this should be viewed as acceptance it is true or that is it is ok is wrong. --Many people have the belief they will not get into a car wreck. The reason the majority of such car wrecks happen is because they were accidents(careless or not is another topic). --These people with these beliefs are able to justify not carrying car insurance, it will not happen to me I am careful - so why bother.. You and I are forced to pay for it. That is an analogy - one of hundreds that crossed my mind. It is not intended to be taken literally or as an absolute. Rather draw attention to the danger of false belief which give one: guts, power, pride or purpose. -E First, I didn't realize you were presenting the "laws of logic". You were claiming to seek the definition of God, to which I still say that definition will vary from individual to individual. If you don't have the tolerance to accept that, then its likely you will always feel you are right and everyone else is wrong and as a result, will always be waiting for people to catch up with you. As long as you realize you will have a long wait, then we're both happy. It's one thing to believe or ask what belief is by the way of "God". It's a whole other thing to dispute anyone's answer to that, though. I answered in a way that proved me neither right or wrong because as I said, there really IS no right or wrong when it comes to religious or political beliefs. They are beliefs. Beliefs held by each and every individual for either same or different reasons. I can understand that and accept it. Can you? You ignored my definition You ignored the laws of logic and put them in quotes - odd? You ignored the fact that I presented information on the branch of psychology established to deal with flawed beliefs/thoughts. You ignored the analogy I provided for dangerous beliefs . . . . Then you said something about me being elitist and spiteful cause how dare someone question a belief of another. As I asked in my OP it is my understanding this thing some call god is an absolute. To suggest otherwise violates a 2,000 year old documented and understood history of the 3 most accepted religions today along with most others. If I am wrong correct me....Suggesting god is not absolute also seems kinda impotent. I also stated it was my understanding this thing some call god is not impacted by individual subjective belief. If the case the case and god is an absolute thing yet people have individual definitions about it which make explicit and contradicting claims then only one group of people can be right - the several billion others are wrong. If none of their definitions match up, I am not talking verbatim, and are riddled with contradiction then this thing they call god can not exist according to the laws of logic. If you wish me to put my hands over my eyes, peek out my fingers and pretend people running around accepting beliefs as absolute fact, without evidence... And wish me to deny the commonsense fact that most ancient religions are now accepted as untrue and this should be alloweable for no other reason that it makes 'em feel good. Well, it seems silly for me to do that. But, I just might if you give me a kiss. BTW check out my other post - it is awesome [:D]

DavanKael -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 11:24:59 PM)
ORIGINAL: Esinn I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads. Actually, I don't think you are based on the responses you've given some respondents. While they've stated their beliefs, you've taken stabs at people/been condescending to those who don't go in the direction you desire. That really doesn't make for open dialogue, it just makes people think that you're a jerk/that you have an axe to grind/etc. Davan (Who firmly believes that one can be godless and discuss god with polite people who believe in god without being rude)

popeye1250 -> RE: Define God (8/2/2009 11:41:29 PM)
Esinn, wtf, you ask people what they think "GOD" is then when they answer you you tell them they're wrong? I didn't know there were "right" and "wrong" answers to that question. Boy, I'm glad I'm not an "intellectual." And why ANYONE would think the big guy wears "white robes" and "sandals" is just silly! I love those people who believe in that "rapture" stuff. "Hey, when you get raptured can I have your Cadillac?"

Esinn -> RE: Define God (8/3/2009 12:00:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavanKael ORIGINAL: Esinn I am trying to understand what god is so we can speak intelligently about it in other threads. Actually, I don't think you are based on the responses you've given some respondents. While they've stated their beliefs, you've taken stabs at people/been condescending to those who don't go in the direction you desire. That really doesn't make for open dialogue, it just makes people think that you're a jerk/that you have an axe to grind/etc. Davan (Who firmly believes that one can be godless and discuss god with polite people who believe in god without being rude) It is established by science that supernatural belief is controlled by a module in the brain. Any euphoric or spiritual feelings arising from discussion or personal prayer are internal mechanisms at work - not external. I showed this through detailed explanation, documented peer reviewed journals and by providing links which discuss existing medical technology used in the studies. I discussed the modern understanding of Psychology and belief dating back to Freud. I also discussed the 3 laws of logic which we humans call upon as frequently as we breathe. If I am mistaken or you feel some info I presented is intentionally deceptive let's discuss it. If you think presenting facts which logically challenge & criticize belief makes me a jerk, keep in mind although I understand the material the data collected is not my own. Thus far only one person whom I have not addressed yet seemed to put any thought into their reply. If you think me calling someone who is obviously incorrect incorrect or unable to defend their position in a logical fashion makes me a jerk again the problem is yours. Sometimes it is fun to make a point stick. Has not master or yourself chosen specific words to do so? If my choice or arrangement of words have truly hurt someone accept this be my apology - if my message has I offer nothing

Esinn -> RE: Define God (8/3/2009 12:02:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Esinn, wtf, you ask people what they think "GOD" is then when they answer you you tell them they're wrong? I didn't know there were "right" and "wrong" answers to that question. Boy, I'm glad I'm not an "intellectual." And why ANYONE would think the big guy wears "white robes" and "sandals" is just silly! I love those people who believe in that "rapture" stuff. "Hey, when you get raptured can I have your Cadillac?" See post #37 Also important I did not ask them to tell me what they think god is. Such a thing is irrelevant. I said I wanted to have a logical discussion about a thing they called god. Edit: To do so, to have this conversation it is absolutely necessary this definition be accepted by the non conceptual laws of logic [8\|]

stella41b -> RE: Define God (8/3/2009 12:26:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brispslave God is the same as Santa Claus, except no one tells you it's all bullshit when you turn 8...sadly you have to work it out for yourself, which many people fail to do. OMG! We have a new Buddha, and here on the forums too. How blessed we are.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625