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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 8:46:57 AM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterHermes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

GOD:

So, as far as I can tell we have defined god as a concept which exists in the mind.  The fact science has not proven how the universe was created, despite multiple theories exist, is used as evidence that this thing exists external to the human mind and is responsible for the ex-nihlo creation of everything.  This internal concept can be changed with personal imagination and seems to change as often as necessary to satisfy emotional needs of the individual.  Often ones belief in this thing is based upon the circumstances of the moment, geographic location of birth or social setting.  The individual typically adopts and adapts their personal definition of god from either a single or multiple ancient religions.

I have also learned that although it might be acceptable for me to question and challenge core irrational beliefs of a person about: social status, racism, sexism, math or supernatural things it is unacceptable to question modern religious beliefs.  This is due to the fact that science has not removed the shroud of mystery from the question most major religions seem to hinge their validity upon.  This is the fact that science has not conclusively demonstrated how the universe started.  So, like it or not NAY nay nay my personal core belief is beyond reason, logic, evidence and ultimate understanding so I am allowed to have it.  After all it makes me feel nice and warm inside.

The end?



At the end believing what science says requires as much faith as religions. Our ideas on the beginning of the universe and the life constantly changing.



LOL here marches in the trumpet boy 500 posts later.  Yes, you are right. 

Go play in the rain, when you come in catch up on reading my thread.


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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 8:49:23 AM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Pissing in cold water makes it feel warm. Pissing in hot water makes it feel cold.

Everything is relative, Esinn.

Also, I see God everywhere. Definitely not invisible to me.



The invisible can not be visible.

The visible can be microscopic.  Are you suggesting this thing you know as god is microscopic?

Please reference the verse that cites god as microscopic or evidence.

Thanks....

-E


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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 9:02:02 AM   
Esinn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Them is all quotes from the Old Testament, which is not Christian.


I hate to jump into this in this thread.  I will change the topic.

However, let's do it.

So you accept nothing in the Old Testament?  None of it deals with your religion - Christianity?

Edit:
I think out of respect for those reading not posting. . .   We should start a new thread?  Possibly laws of Christianity?  Or something?  It could relate to philosophy, history, law, modern/ancient teachings?

Or do we just move off topic and talk through those who remain on other subjects?


< Message edited by Esinn -- 8/8/2009 9:07:00 AM >

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 9:25:48 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn
So you accept nothing in the Old Testament?  None of it deals with your religion - Christianity?

Actually, I was born into an atheist family. I was also born into a Calvinistic Christian culture. My gene pool has benefited from and evolved in two thousand years of Christian culture. Christianity so to say is in my atheistic blood and bones and flesh; it is imprinted on my DNA.

Both spiritually and scientifically I have concluded that the Divine 'exists outside' our universe. (I use the accurate term Divine instead of the vague God that gives rise to so much confusion - mostly because people read ancient texts that they cannot comprehend.)

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 9:55:01 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

scientifically I have concluded that the Divine 'exists outside' our universe.



Good work Rule. Just out of interest here what apparatus do you employ? I'd bet a pound to a penny that it doesn't extend too far beyond a bunsen burner and a block of weed.

I was in your city 3 weeks ago - Rule. There was a football tournament on over there with my team Ajax and a couple more - certainly changed my opinion of Amsterdam - had a right old time.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 9:59:07 AM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

scientifically I have concluded that the Divine 'exists outside' our universe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Good work Rule. Just out of interest here what apparatus do you employ? I'd bet a pound to a penny that it doesn't extend too far beyond a bunsen burner and a block of weed.

Cynic

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 10:00:29 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Good work Rule. Just out of interest here what apparatus do you employ?

Its called Superego - and mine is the largest extant.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 10:06:26 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Good work Rule. Just out of interest here what apparatus do you employ?


Its called Superego - and mine is the largest extant.



Amsterdam science eh. Don't think Spinoza would be best pleased with this state of affairs - nor Erasmus for that matter.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 10:10:39 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Cynic



God knows I'm trying to be positive about this.....pretty much hanging on to any shred of hope......but I'm finding it hard to equate Rule's musing on the state of his ego with a scientific discovery.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 10:35:27 AM   
Starbuck09


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Status: offline 		What would make me happy is irrelevant Esinn you asked a question and I gave you the answer nothing more. To call someone a liar is a statement that unless backed up by evidence is inherently flawed. You can disgree certainly and even provide examples that support your own view of events, trends, and opinions but the label of liar is not one that can be accorded to an individual with any certainty and subsequent validation unless one is aquainted with proof positive that it is so. In this case one could posit the view that atheists comprise more than fifty percent of the scientific community and lend some credence to this view with the article you provided. However as you yourself recognise this is not definitive and so calling this person a liar is, as you yourself imply, an unjustifiable statement that requires recitude. Personally I think it is quite possible/probable that atheism constitutes the belief of the majority of scientists however the evidence available to me in one form or another is enough only to support this conclusion not vindicate it Esinn.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 10:38:09 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I'm finding it hard to equate Rule's musing on the state of his ego with a scientific discovery.

I doubt that I have an ego or much of one. Nor a soul neither.

Superego is the part of the mind that occupies itself with rational thought, problem solving and ethics. Mine is such that I am a supergenius, probably the only one extant.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 10:44:57 AM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		Rule the ego is the part that brings the id and the superego together and reconciles the differences. If you follow such teachings of Freud (not everyone does) you can't pick and choose the bits out of the entire model that apply to you.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 10:54:12 AM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		I ain't no ordinary human, FullCircle.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 11:03:39 AM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		The model exists as a whole, taking parts of it and saying they exist in isolation makes it a new unrelated model and so needs new unrelated terms, regardless of what form of psychosis you suffer or who you are as an individual.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 11:20:57 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

God is a big fat lie.



A philoshophical position advocating some sort of creator can't really be a lie.



quote:


God certainly does make sense. The outcome is similar to politics - we create socially accepted norms and values in order to regulate our behaviour. I suppose the difference is that politics can be based on tangible human behaviour; whereas there is nothing tangible about a non-specific deity.


God isnt merely a philisophical position, or you would be right that it cant be a lie. God is something that people are indoctrinated to believe exists, and are told to modify their behavior to please that god. Whether its dietary rules, contributing to building gaudy houses of worship and supporting the livelihood of the priesthood, or blowing up a bus full of teenagers. Far from not being a lie, it is one of the most powerful and cruelest lies that exist.

And your point on god making sense is wrong also. No code of ethics or morals requires a creator to have handed them down or approve of them.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 8/8/2009 11:27:43 AM >

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 11:33:38 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
No code of ethics or morals requires a creator to have handed them down or approve of them.

Thus they exist without having an origin and without having been approved?

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 11:39:29 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
No code of ethics or morals requires a creator to have handed them down or approve of them.

Thus they exist without having an origin and without having been approved?



If youre nitting on my lack of capitalzation, bfd. Otherwise you know quite well what i meant.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 12:05:28 PM   
Brain


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Status: offline 		I suppose God is living in another dimension.

The hunt is on for evidence that supports string theory—for example, extra dimensions or
super symmetry
running time 6:29

Watch chapter 7 in
QuickTime
RealVideo

Signs of Strings

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 1:06:53 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Mine is such that I am a supergenius, probably the only one extant.



I don't doubt it for a second Rule though it must be a heavy burden to shoulder; you must feel like a queen bee storing copious amounts of honey but there's no one with whom it's worth sharing.

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RE: Define God - 8/8/2009 1:46:08 PM   
MasterHermes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Esinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterHermes

At the end believing what science says requires as much faith as religions. Our ideas on the beginning of the universe and the life constantly changing.



LOL here marches in the trumpet boy 500 posts later.  Yes, you are right. 

Go play in the rain, when you come in catch up on reading my thread.



Didnt I say you wont like what I said , because it will remind you your insignificance? There we go :) Thanks for becoming a living example.

You try to represent yourself as a thinker, but you are so fixed on atheist versus Christian debate, you dont even see the posts out of your scope. It looks like you are too busy playing god was on the clouds and devil had a tail game.

Seems like religious people are easy target for your hurt ego, or you may try bringing better things than second hand logic on the table.

If it wont hurt your delicate ego, there are couple posts you may read starting from #150:

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2742615&key=

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2743892&key=

Hermes

< Message edited by MasterHermes -- 8/8/2009 2:15:52 PM >

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