subspace, subdrop and recovery (Full Version)

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UKEvolutionary -> subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/5/2009 8:27:10 PM)

wherever I've been, I always like to pop this onto the forums for feedback, information and "constructive criticism" .......... CM being NO different !!

Get a "cuppa" !! It's a long read, but worth it !!!


What is subspace ?
subspace is an altered state of consciousness, one that varies from one individual to another but the awareness of that person is altered dramatically, some submissives become immersed in sensations to the point of becoming unaware of anything else ! Where they are, what the time is and in some cases they lose their own identity! Some can even shut off completely entering a trance like state in which they are no longer conscious of their own actions, experience or surroundings. A dissociated state generally caused by intense stimulation, physical and/or emotional, from a “scene” perhaps, and partly related to biochemical release of endorphins,. When out of subspace, generally the feeling isn’t unpleasant but many are aware that “something” happened, but they aren’t aware of the details of that experience.

What is subdrop ?
Sometimes coming out of subspace can be distressing as the endorphins and other body chemicals stop being produced (Lack of stimulus), it can produce a sudden feeling of depression, clinginess, and dependency, this is usually referred to as “subdrop” and is generally unwelcomed. The effects of subdrop (it's usually referred to as subdrop when these are "bad" effects) are manifestly similar to a kind of depressive state.
After the submissive has rested, and even after sleeping, there can be spontaneous outbursts of emotion: tears, fear, happiness etc. Dominants should see these as a need to be comforted, and looked after, to be held, told how much the submissive is needed, and how important the submissive is. submissives can crave attention, and often the sub psyche feels that they have lost the massive attention which they had before (during the scene) from their Dominant, and this can cause the unease, and charged emotions that may occur in a sub drop situation. Added to this of course, are the hugely elevated amounts of naturally produced hormones (endorphins adrenaline etc) that are still flowing around the sub's body. These may take some time to return to normal levels, varying from hours to sometimes days. The exact psychological impact varies from person to person and the interplay between mechanisms is not well understood. All of the information on this subject is based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis.

Physiological Processes
During the scene, the intense experiences of both pain and pleasure trigger a sympathetic nervous system response, which causes a release of epinephrine ( Adrenaline ) from the suprarenal glands, as well as a dump of endorphins and enkephalins. These natural chemicals, part of the fight or flight response, produce the same effect as a morphine-like drug, increasing the pain tolerance of the submissive as the scene becomes more intense. Producing a sort of trance-like state due to the increase of hormones and chemicals, the submissive starts to feel out-of-body, detached from reality, and as the high comes down, and the parasympathetic nervous system kicks in, a deep exhaustion, as well as incoherence. Many submissives once reaching a height of subspace will lose all sensation of pain, as any stimulus causes the period to prolong.

Enkephalin :-
either of two pentapeptides with opiate and analgesic activity that occur naturally especially in the brain and have a marked affinity for opiate receptors.
Endorphins :- are a group of small proteins naturally occurring in the brain around nerve endings, that bind to opiate receptors and thus can raise the pain threshold. Enkephalins are included in this group of compounds.

Epinephrine:-
is a naturally occurring hormone, also called adrenaline. It is one of two chemicals (the other is norepinephrine) released by the adrenal gland. Epinephrine increases the speed and force of heart beats and thereby the work that can be done by the heart. It dilates the airways to improve breathing and narrows blood vessels in the skin and intestine so that an increased flow of blood reaches the muscles and allows them to cope with the demands of exercise.

Subspace “Recovery”
This is a very ambiguous subject, so I will endeavour to try to give a broad spectrum program of Aftercare that I have received from many various sources. You may have your own way to give Your submissive subspace aftercare that either I haven’t included here, or that you find contradictory. Either way, I am very open to correction/additional information.
Sleep helps, and the submissive may want to nap for a while to relieve some of the feelings of subspace. Drinking plenty of water, staying warm, and having their Dominant there with them will help a lot in this situation. Sometimes, a warm shower will also help the submissive to feel better.
Don't be surprised if the submissive seems clingy during this time it is only their way of seeking comfort and security in the arms of their Dominant, and will usually pass within a day or two.
The only thing You, as a Dominant can do is to be there for Your submissive when they hit subspace, a high caused by the raised endorphin levels. During subspace, the submissive may actually be unconscious for a bit, or at least somewhat incoherent, and unable to think properly, or even walk without falling. This is a dangerous time for the submissive to be alone, as their ability to think or act rationally may be impaired. This will slowly dissipate over a short time, but when in this state, they must be taken care of, and protected, as they haven't the ability to do this for themselves When in this trance like state, talking caringly to Your submissive and asking very simple questions requiring basic yes and no answers, would be advised, as more intricate questions may not be understood to bring them out of subspace because this can be an area that the submissive may not want to come out of ! it is that "heavenly" for some, so focus their attentions on You, make sure they respond to Your commands WITHOUT giving “extra stimulus” !! but make those commands VERY simple, “squeeze My hand” “talk to Me” easy commands but requiring answers, however simple. The submissive can become almost child like and when in this state, the submissive may giggle, laugh, speak things not clearly understood due to their inability to formulate sentences requiring of a more complex nature. It is indeed a state of bliss, one that cannot be adequately expressed with mere words, but is better understood by actually experiencing it.
Subspace can last for several hours, to several days in various levels, but in most cases, the submissive will be able to take care of themselves within 30 minutes to an hour. Be sure to offer them water, or a light snack, or both when they seem able to maneouver on their own right after a scene.
This is only a collation of information that I have received, and worked into, HOPEFULLY, a broader understanding of subspace recovery, it is NOT the “Be all and end all” nor is it a RULE, it is just one Man’s attempt to try to help those who wish to know.

UPDATE

Well, I have now got some "hands on" experience and I'd like to pass on what I have observed. PLEASE note that this is just based on observation of My lady and obviously, may NOT be applicable to Y/you and what Y/you have found.

My girl has gone into subspace a few times now, sometimes with Me giving her a good spanking and sometimes just because of multiple orgasms, but each time she has been "tough" to bring out of. At this time I have tried being gentle with her and sometimes stroked her to re-assure, but each time she's acted as though she's just had a mild electric shock ! she has been Hyper sensitive. So obviously, I've had to bring her out with just a re-assuring voice only. NO shouting, just tender re-assurance, also I've tried asking questions such as "What are you feeling"? "Tell Me what's going on" all of which I have stated before as not to ask and I found out why when NO answer was her "reply", and yet such "requests" ( please note NOT commands !! ) like "open your eyes", and "I'm here, you know that don't you?" were met with difficulty in opening her eyes, and just "mmm" as a general reply !! Just be patient and caring and DON'T leave them alone until YOU feel that Your submissive is now "with it"
Another thing I have found with My girl is afterwards, she has a tendency to cry for NO "apparent" reason. I have asked her later about subspace, and she commented about how seems to be in a "white space" and it's certainly a place where she doesn't want to come out of, she can't explain exactly why apart from it's just so fantastic, all she knows is that she wants to stay there. Why she cries, she couldn't explain, she just can't hold back the tears !

As I said at the start, this is just an observation of My girl ONLY !!
Hope this helps out even more, and I'd be pleased to hear about Your submissive's reactions




KneelforAnne -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/5/2009 8:36:58 PM)

Thank you so much for taking the time to post this. 

As stated it may not be the same for everyone involved, but I truly appreciate getting information from a variety of sources--as one never knows what one will encounter in life!

Thank you!

~anne




UKEvolutionary -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/5/2009 9:03:43 PM)

anne .......... My pleasure and thank you for the positive response




BitaTruble -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 4:52:31 AM)

Nicely written, solid science and I really like that you left the door open for other 'ways'. Well done.

My experiences with subspace differ depending on mood, intensity etc., but often I do react as your partner does and it can be difficult to get me 'out' of that space. I mean, it's just so yummy being in there! The crying thing is common, but laughing hysterically is just as likely in my case. Sometimes it's both at the same time but it's never from a bad place.

I enjoyed the read. Thanks for sharing it.




RCdc -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 5:19:39 AM)

A great piece - with paragraphs!  I like the no true way of it.  A really good read for people who are just starting (as well as us oldies[;)]).
 
the.dark.




Daddyssidney -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 5:32:58 AM)

This is one subject I hold close to my heart. My Daddy and I are both new to the lifestyle and W/we have pushed the envelope during certain scenes. In one scene particular I went right into a fight and flight response..and proceeded to act on it.. My Daddy took it personally and had no idea about subspace or aftercare. I fought first then I ran home. (2 hour drive) My fear of not being taken care of and His anger almost cost U/us O/our relationship. Thank God W/we were able to overcome and more important, learn from that scene. I'm doing a better job at communicating and He is doing better with aftercare. W/we still need work in these areas but just knowing about subspace and the need for aftercare has been a great help.
Be Well
sidney




allthatjaz -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 9:21:28 AM)

Its posts like this that should become stickies.... Its very readable, gets to all the important points and I am sure will help many, especially those new to sub drop.

I have to say that my space is blue and I have written about these in my journals. We have been playing around with this space for a long time and what S has discovered (to my horror!) is that I can disconnect very, very quickly. Because of this S has found a way to ground me (pull me back to reality) just as suddenly and make me face the scene!
Don't get me wrong, he loves me to space but he controls when I go their and its not going to be before he is ready.








UKEvolutionary -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 9:33:57 AM)

Thanks to A/all for the input and I'm pleased you received it well.

I am glad that Daddyssidney worked out T/their problem, and please forgive Me for saying, it just highlights the possible "dangers" of going into D/s with limited knowledge ! however, it's great that Y/you two have worked through it, and have learnt by it. That just highlights another one of My "manic" subjects ..... communication !!! lol
I don't mean to "preach" nor do I mean to "know it all" .... I don't !!
hence why I'm on here ...... to learn. But as I said, I mean NO disrespect to either of Y/you.

W/we all have to learn somehow, and I hope with posts like this, others will avoid dangers, or at the very least, be aware of them.




Daddyssidney -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 10:28:42 AM)

No disrespect taken.. :) Daddy and I started out in a vanilla relationship that just kinda grew into a D/s one. I don't think W/we truly new what W/we getting into and yes, that can be dangerous emotionally as well as physically... O/our hurt and anger almost killed O/our relationship and that would have been a real tragic.

Be Well
sidney




tammystarm -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 10:31:13 AM)

its the long drive to our own homes without them, that is the hardest for me.  takes me days to recover, even with His wonderful voice filling my ears on O/our nightly conversations.




Daddyssidney -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 10:38:03 AM)

Yeah.... I go through my own sub drop when its time to back home...[:(]
And it also takes me days to recoup...


sidney




DesFIP -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 6:14:13 PM)

Since we don't play in public, coming out of space is not a problem for us. He just puts a blanket over me and allows me to go from space to sleep.

About drop; I found it's a lot easier avoided than cured. Don't play for hours on end without food or sleep. Take breaks and always have some water when you stop. Make sure you're rested and hydrated and have eaten properly beforehand. Do plan to stop long enough before that you're recovered before you need to drive.

And most important, listen to your body. If you're tired, nap. If hungry, eat. Stuff like that.




MaamJay -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 11:08:29 PM)

A very good post on subspace, drop etc. Fits the science as I understand it as a Human Biologist and experiences both as a Domme taking subs to subspace, and as a sub, happily been there lots of times! It's awesome from both perspectives!

As a sub, i go through some distinct phases on the way in and have devised a simple odd number system as shorthand descriptions of them. In brief, they are 1 - normal, 3 - warm fuzzy feelings very focused on the Dominant, 5 - adrenaline fight/flight space (and for me, giggle space!), 7 - endorphin "hurts so GOOOD" space, getting hard to respond verbally, and finally Deep Space 9 - away with the fairies! Can't stand let alone walk, i sink to knees or to lie down on the floor. It's the only time i can kneel without pain from arthritic knees and amazingly, they don't hurt afterwards either! As a Domme I have found these numbers work quite well with most subs, though relatively few do the giggle thing (but then, I play with boys. The only other giggler I know is another girl and it was fun when both our Masters were playing us both at the same time at the play party!).

Master got a shock the first time i went to giggle space, but now He's used to it and it's a reliable guide as to where i'm at. He can induce it by teasing and mild humiliation just as readily as with a spanking. However, i most readily get beyond 5 by some physical play, spanking, flogging, needles, wax etc. He knows that the best aftercare when i am in deep is to shut up and just lie down beside me, after covering me with my subby blanket no matter what the temperature actually is. The most He will do is gently put an arm around me or hold my hand or stroke my hair or forehead in a very soothing way, but He knows that works for me, i am not usually hypersensitive, but some subs are. If i cry (rare, but very cathartic when it happens), He just gives me a tissue or wipes my face gently when i'm done. He lets me float until i show some signs of stirring or trying to speak, at which time He will ask me to nod if i am OK. He will ask specifics like "Do you want some water now?" and be satisfied with a nod or shake rather than asking "What do you want?" which means i have to formulate a reply. As soon as i am a bit more with it He will help me sit up and insist then that i sip some water, He always has that in the play area, and nibble on some food. Once i am ready He helps me stand (sometimes needs quite precise instructions!) and then walk.

It's important for the Dominant to understand subspace so they don't become over-anxious and demand too many answers etc which the sub just can't supply. Also for them to realise they have to call an end to play as subs that are beyond phase 5 can't judge when to call a safeword even if they are able to utter one. As has been said, not understanding these things can lead to breakdowns in communication that can have really negative consequences.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]




UKEvolutionary -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/6/2009 11:39:00 PM)

Thank you MaamJay, there's some really good input here that I can fully relate too.
My lady has "joint" problems also, mainly with a back operation but bad knees as well, so I immediately identified with that. Also, what you say regarding "anxiety" I can understand that, and I suppose in a way, I may be guilty of it !! I tend to try and bring My girl out of subspace rather too quickly and I think that may be just out of "newness" rather that anxiety, but I couldn't "swear" to that !!

Reading your reply, I'll let her enjoy subspace longer, without "stimulation" of course !!, and be there for her, and see which way works best for U/us.

It's input like this that helps Me grow, to be all that I can be for the girl that deserves the best. Reading and understanding is great, but No real sustitute for experience and listening to those MORE experienced than Y/you.
Thank Y/you again.




Acer49 -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/7/2009 5:28:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UKEvolutionary

wherever I've been, I always like to pop this onto the forums for feedback, information and "constructive criticism" .......... CM being NO different !!

Get a "cuppa" !! It's a long read, but worth it !!!


What is subspace ?
subspace is an altered state of consciousness, one that varies from one individual to another but the awareness of that person is altered dramatically, some submissives become immersed in sensations to the point of becoming unaware of anything else ! Where they are, what the time is and in some cases they lose their own identity! Some can even shut off completely entering a trance like state in which they are no longer conscious of their own actions, experience or surroundings. A dissociated state generally caused by intense stimulation, physical and/or emotional, from a “scene” perhaps, and partly related to biochemical release of endorphins,. When out of subspace, generally the feeling isn’t unpleasant but many are aware that “something” happened, but they aren’t aware of the details of that experience.

What is subdrop ?
Sometimes coming out of subspace can be distressing as the endorphins and other body chemicals stop being produced (Lack of stimulus), it can produce a sudden feeling of depression, clinginess, and dependency, this is usually referred to as “subdrop” and is generally unwelcomed. The effects of subdrop (it's usually referred to as subdrop when these are "bad" effects) are manifestly similar to a kind of depressive state.
After the submissive has rested, and even after sleeping, there can be spontaneous outbursts of emotion: tears, fear, happiness etc. Dominants should see these as a need to be comforted, and looked after, to be held, told how much the submissive is needed, and how important the submissive is. submissives can crave attention, and often the sub psyche feels that they have lost the massive attention which they had before (during the scene) from their Dominant, and this can cause the unease, and charged emotions that may occur in a sub drop situation. Added to this of course, are the hugely elevated amounts of naturally produced hormones (endorphins adrenaline etc) that are still flowing around the sub's body. These may take some time to return to normal levels, varying from hours to sometimes days. The exact psychological impact varies from person to person and the interplay between mechanisms is not well understood. All of the information on this subject is based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis.

Physiological Processes
During the scene, the intense experiences of both pain and pleasure trigger a sympathetic nervous system response, which causes a release of epinephrine ( Adrenaline ) from the suprarenal glands, as well as a dump of endorphins and enkephalins. These natural chemicals, part of the fight or flight response, produce the same effect as a morphine-like drug, increasing the pain tolerance of the submissive as the scene becomes more intense. Producing a sort of trance-like state due to the increase of hormones and chemicals, the submissive starts to feel out-of-body, detached from reality, and as the high comes down, and the parasympathetic nervous system kicks in, a deep exhaustion, as well as incoherence. Many submissives once reaching a height of subspace will lose all sensation of pain, as any stimulus causes the period to prolong.

Enkephalin :-
either of two pentapeptides with opiate and analgesic activity that occur naturally especially in the brain and have a marked affinity for opiate receptors.
Endorphins :- are a group of small proteins naturally occurring in the brain around nerve endings, that bind to opiate receptors and thus can raise the pain threshold. Enkephalins are included in this group of compounds.

Epinephrine:-
is a naturally occurring hormone, also called adrenaline. It is one of two chemicals (the other is norepinephrine) released by the adrenal gland. Epinephrine increases the speed and force of heart beats and thereby the work that can be done by the heart. It dilates the airways to improve breathing and narrows blood vessels in the skin and intestine so that an increased flow of blood reaches the muscles and allows them to cope with the demands of exercise.

Subspace “Recovery”
This is a very ambiguous subject, so I will endeavour to try to give a broad spectrum program of Aftercare that I have received from many various sources. You may have your own way to give Your submissive subspace aftercare that either I haven’t included here, or that you find contradictory. Either way, I am very open to correction/additional information.
Sleep helps, and the submissive may want to nap for a while to relieve some of the feelings of subspace. Drinking plenty of water, staying warm, and having their Dominant there with them will help a lot in this situation. Sometimes, a warm shower will also help the submissive to feel better.
Don't be surprised if the submissive seems clingy during this time it is only their way of seeking comfort and security in the arms of their Dominant, and will usually pass within a day or two.
The only thing You, as a Dominant can do is to be there for Your submissive when they hit subspace, a high caused by the raised endorphin levels. During subspace, the submissive may actually be unconscious for a bit, or at least somewhat incoherent, and unable to think properly, or even walk without falling. This is a dangerous time for the submissive to be alone, as their ability to think or act rationally may be impaired. This will slowly dissipate over a short time, but when in this state, they must be taken care of, and protected, as they haven't the ability to do this for themselves When in this trance like state, talking caringly to Your submissive and asking very simple questions requiring basic yes and no answers, would be advised, as more intricate questions may not be understood to bring them out of subspace because this can be an area that the submissive may not want to come out of ! it is that "heavenly" for some, so focus their attentions on You, make sure they respond to Your commands WITHOUT giving “extra stimulus” !! but make those commands VERY simple, “squeeze My hand” “talk to Me” easy commands but requiring answers, however simple. The submissive can become almost child like and when in this state, the submissive may giggle, laugh, speak things not clearly understood due to their inability to formulate sentences requiring of a more complex nature. It is indeed a state of bliss, one that cannot be adequately expressed with mere words, but is better understood by actually experiencing it.
Subspace can last for several hours, to several days in various levels, but in most cases, the submissive will be able to take care of themselves within 30 minutes to an hour. Be sure to offer them water, or a light snack, or both when they seem able to maneouver on their own right after a scene.
This is only a collation of information that I have received, and worked into, HOPEFULLY, a broader understanding of subspace recovery, it is NOT the “Be all and end all” nor is it a RULE, it is just one Man’s attempt to try to help those who wish to know.

UPDATE

Well, I have now got some "hands on" experience and I'd like to pass on what I have observed. PLEASE note that this is just based on observation of My lady and obviously, may NOT be applicable to Y/you and what Y/you have found.

My girl has gone into subspace a few times now, sometimes with Me giving her a good spanking and sometimes just because of multiple orgasms, but each time she has been "tough" to bring out of. At this time I have tried being gentle with her and sometimes stroked her to re-assure, but each time she's acted as though she's just had a mild electric shock ! she has been Hyper sensitive. So obviously, I've had to bring her out with just a re-assuring voice only. NO shouting, just tender re-assurance, also I've tried asking questions such as "What are you feeling"? "Tell Me what's going on" all of which I have stated before as not to ask and I found out why when NO answer was her "reply", and yet such "requests" ( please note NOT commands !! ) like "open your eyes", and "I'm here, you know that don't you?" were met with difficulty in opening her eyes, and just "mmm" as a general reply !! Just be patient and caring and DON'T leave them alone until YOU feel that Your submissive is now "with it"
Another thing I have found with My girl is afterwards, she has a tendency to cry for NO "apparent" reason. I have asked her later about subspace, and she commented about how seems to be in a "white space" and it's certainly a place where she doesn't want to come out of, she can't explain exactly why apart from it's just so fantastic, all she knows is that she wants to stay there. Why she cries, she couldn't explain, she just can't hold back the tears !

As I said at the start, this is just an observation of My girl ONLY !!
Hope this helps out even more, and I'd be pleased to hear about Your submissive's reactions


I applaud your efforts




BoundDragon -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/7/2009 12:14:39 PM)

What a fantasic post, congratulations for putting it so wonderfully.

I have only experienced subspace and sub drop a few time but it mirrors exactly what I experienced and what I felt and needed.

Thank you for taking the time to write and post, it is appreciated




UKEvolutionary -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/8/2009 2:28:43 AM)

Many thanks.




BoundBrosef -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/8/2009 5:19:05 AM)

huh, never looked at it from that sort of a psychological angle, but reading it I'm ticking off things like..."yeah reminds me of the feeling alike this particular session one time..."

I'm too lazy to open another tab and google the statistics, but I imagine there are a large number of persons taking some sort of anti-depressant or psychoactive drug, eh? Or maybe among this community that number is significantly less, maybe for the reasons you outlined above, as far as the outlet and recognition of one's psyche as it pertains to the real world.




lioncub -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/8/2009 10:37:44 AM)

This was a very informative read for me, thank you!

I haven't got any real life scene experience, but the dropping off of a psychological pedestal is something I have experience with. I climb high and fall hard, for various reasons. I am hyper-sensitive by nature.

I am getting better at not falling so drastically, but you've shown with this post the importance of dealing with a drop appropriately. For so long I had ignored it as a valid response.

Again, thanks for posting!




BriteBlond -> RE: subspace, subdrop and recovery (8/8/2009 12:27:07 PM)

Thanks for sharing. I have bookmarked this.




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