RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong

RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/9/2009 5:06:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig when he talked about The Law, he would have meant the Jewish Law, not some theoretical new Law,otherwise he would have said My Law. You beat me to it. I'm flabbergasted that people will take "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of the pen" and keep asserting things until they get to every letter and every pen stroke that's a full 180 degrees, the exact opposite of what's written in the quote. This reminds me of a satirical youtube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mLOUWl-L-s

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/9/2009 5:33:22 AM)
i thought the Mosiac Laws (Old Testament) didn't apply to the Gentiles (the non-Jewish) because the laws/commandments of the New Testament were for them. didn't Jesus before ascending to heaven charged his original disciples and many others to go unto the world preaching the gospel (New Testament)?

eyesopened -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/9/2009 1:45:20 PM)
It's been declared by the most perfect and the most intelligent among these boards, that I am a dolt. But what I see in Christianity as practiced today, bears little or no resemblance to the philosophy and teaching of Jesus. I don't believe that Jesus was the literal Son of God, I don't believe in the Holy Spirit getting Mary pregnant. I don't believe Jesus rose from the dead or that he asended into heave. But I believe that Jesus was an actual person who tried to free his people from the tyranny of their own religion. He was a maverick in his day, challenging us to question our beliefs, to seek new ideas, to see the the illogical way religious leaders used God to manipulate the common man and woman. Jesus asked us to imagine God, not as a wrathful blood-thirsty Cosmic Asshole who could never be truly united with humanit; but to imagine God as a parent, who really just wants us to be happy. The Law was writen for the hebrew people to bring order to their lives to have one single set of rules for the high and the low alike, not one set of rules for peasants and another for kings. God did not want them to have a king but rather let the laws be applied fairly to all. The Old Testament is a story of the Jewish people and their relationship with God, their misunderstandings, errors, rebellion, all the warts and dirty secrets. I don't know of a single Jewish person today who believes the Bible to be the actual, infallible Word of God. Christians, as I was raised and as I see practiced today, have gone back to the days of Pharisees and have heaped rritual, regulation, and false teaching as to make living as joyless as possible. Jesus said (Iam paraphrasing here) Be nice to each other. If you can't remember any other Commandment, just try to remember this: Be nice to each other the way you would like other people to be nice to you. If every human being would just follow that one "law" I don't think we would have most of the problems in the world today. But then, remember, I'm an idiot.

Arpig -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/9/2009 1:56:36 PM)
quote: It's been declared by the most perfect and the most intelligent among these boards, that I am a dolt. I never said any such thing, and I am THE most perfect and intelligent one on here.[;)]

SpinnerofTales -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/9/2009 3:00:43 PM)
While you can argue Christianty all you like, and some of it is fun to read, I stand with Kurt Vonnegut on my feelings on the subject: "The problem with Christianity is that the moral of the story is "Don't lynch anyone unless you're sure that they don't have powerful friends or relations.....It is impossible to read the story of Jesus without saying "boy, they picked the wrong person to lynch that time!" and the illegitimate brother of that thought is "If there are wrong people to lynch, there must be right people to lynch"." Hell of a belief system you got there, folks.

Arpig -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/9/2009 3:09:33 PM)
quote: It is impossible to read the story of Jesus without saying "boy, they picked the wrong person to lynch that time!" Oddly enough, that thought never once crossed my mind when reading the Jesus story.

Termyn8or -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/9/2009 11:18:09 PM)
Did not use FR. I don't know what it's going to say but this is for everybody. Christianity, which I have rejected, is not a set of words or prophesies, it is a state of mind. While I reject it as a personal belief I respect it as any other, and actually recognize Christ as one of the greatest prophets who ever walked the Earth. The OP is right in that it is being done wrong, of that there is no doubt, but if you get right down to it, if everyone lived by Jesus' tenets the world would be a near utopia. I actually tried it but I couldn't get over the universal forgiveness thing. That simply does not work for me. But one thing I have had happen, and I think the point germaine to this thread, is that I have been mean and nasty and had those actions returned with kindness, do you have any idea how that feels ? I just fucked this guy over and here he doing me a favor. It affected me, and in a way I had never been affected before. I could not understand it. They just let it slide. And then they were cool with me. What can you do with people like that, it would be insane to keep trying to make them an enemy, but to make them a friend ? Then later you want to pay them back for being an asshole to them and they won't accept it. I have had this happen to me, and I'll tellya, it can change you. I was forgiven by those I wronged, and that is powerful stuff. And whether I am Christian or not, I welcome the opportunity to do the same. The difference is that I was not forgiven by some spirit in the sky, but the actual people I had wronged. T

GotSteel -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/10/2009 4:44:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Sorry, I already tried google. I know it is in there, probably in letters, but it has been a long time ago since I last quoted it here in the forum. I'm wondering if you're actually thinking of some quote from Buddhism because Christianity takes exactly the opposite position: 2 Peter 1:20-21 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God. Luke 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

Irishknight -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/10/2009 8:30:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened It's been declared by the most perfect and the most intelligent among these boards, that I am a dolt. But what I see in Christianity as practiced today, bears little or no resemblance to the philosophy and teaching of Jesus. [sm=cheering.gif] Of course, I have been branded an uncultured buffoon and an idiot by several on here myself. Take no mind. They usually misspell their insults while they're having delusions of adequacy.

Esinn -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/10/2009 8:50:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened It's been declared by the most perfect and the most intelligent among these boards, that I am a dolt. I don't believe that Jesus was the literal Son of God, I don't believe in the Holy Spirit getting Mary pregnant. I don't believe Jesus rose from the dead or that he asended into heave. But I believe that Jesus was an actual person who tried to free his people from the tyranny of their own religion. But then, remember, I'm an idiot. Why do you believe this? How did you arrive at the conclusions above?

heartcream -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/10/2009 10:24:54 PM)
The Bible is a book written by men. Much of it was left out and changed and so on and so on. The fact that the Bible is a book does not mean that there is nothing else to be read, that God couldnt have had anything else to say, had anything else written down. I mean they left out the Book of Mary, that has got to tell you volumes! She wrote her bit and they left it out. Please. I think listening to our gut is a super great guide. There is plenty of good things in that Book. Plenty. But there is much that is not so great and we need to use our intuition and hearts and minds to sort out what is what.

Monkeyontuesday -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/11/2009 8:39:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl i thought the Mosiac Laws (Old Testament) didn't apply to the Gentiles (the non-Jewish) because the laws/commandments of the New Testament were for them. didn't Jesus before ascending to heaven charged his original disciples and many others to go unto the world preaching the gospel (New Testament)? Paul (who, incidentally, never met Jesus and had fights with Peter on numerous occasions) was the one who decided that Gentiles didn't need to follow the Law.

Monkeyontuesday -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/11/2009 8:45:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened But I believe that Jesus was an actual person who tried to free his people from the tyranny of their own religion. He was a maverick in his day, challenging us to question our beliefs, to seek new ideas, to see the the illogical way religious leaders used God to manipulate the common man and woman. Jesus asked us to imagine God, not as a wrathful blood-thirsty Cosmic Asshole who could never be truly united with humanit; but to imagine God as a parent, who really just wants us to be happy. Not necessarily... Jesus was a Jew, and as a Jew he went to synagogue and celebrated all of the feasts. He was not a Messianic Jew. Those came along much later. Jesus wanted to liberate Judah from the tyranny of the Romans and along with that, the puppets who claimed to be the leaders of the Jews (King Herod, the clergy, etc). It is my firm belief Jesus acted as Martin Luther did and that neither would be out to begin their own religion, as happened. Jesus also wasn't the only one with his message. There were DOZENS of Messiah movements and Jesus happened to be the one who stuck. It it my personal belief that this was due to Paul's broadcasting to the Gentile world and not necessarily because of anything having to do with the personage of Christ personally. James Tabor writes quite a few books on this subject, a very decent one entitled "The Jesus Dynasty". He is considered an expert on the subject around the world.

Arpig -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/11/2009 9:35:01 AM)
quote: Jesus wanted to liberate Judah from the tyranny of the Romans and along with that, the puppets who claimed to be the leaders of the Jews (King Herod, the clergy, etc). If he was so set on freeing Judah, then what's with all the "render unto Caesar" stuff? Why the absence of any political aspect to his message? All his teachings were purely personal, what each individual should do, not what Jews as a people should do.

Termyn8or -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/11/2009 10:30:17 AM)
I think what Christ was saying is that money doesn't mean shit. T

Monkeyontuesday -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/11/2009 11:41:01 AM)
I feel perhaps it had several levels to that phrase. Yes, you could go with "money is obsolete", as he wasn't preaching to the wealthy, but the have-nots Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, as we want no part in it could be another way to look at it; a disassociation from the Roman rule, including their money. During the Maccabee revolt, they minted their own Jewish currency and a similar revolt was gaining momentum around that time when it finally reached a head in 70 A.D. and the Romans quashed it and razed the Temple to the ground.

Brain -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/12/2009 10:34:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel In another thread it was asserted that all the rules in the Old Testament have nothing to do with Christianity. Now don't get me wrong I think it's great that people are ignoring the Old Testament a lot of it is horrible, I wish they would disregard the New Testament as well. What I don't understand is how someone can disregard The Law in the Old Testament when Jesus tells them to follow it and still call themselves a Christian. Matthew 5:17-20 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. I was watching Judge Judy one day during the trial and she said to the defendant if it doesn't make sense it's a lie. And a lot about religion doesn't make sense so I wouldn't take it too seriously. Just try to do the right thing and do good in your life and don't worry so much about something that was written 2000 years ago when we didn't have any science and did not understand much and couldn't explain much either.

Monkeyontuesday -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/12/2009 11:09:54 AM)
quote: Just try to do the right thing and do good in your life and don't worry so much about something that was written 2000 years ago when we didn't have any science and did not understand much and couldn't explain much either. Well, I'd like to point out that morality is generally subjective and "doing the right thing" means many things to many people. And we didn't have any science 2000 years ago? Come on. Who invented astronomy, the current numbering system, advances in biology and mortuary sciences? Those things happened MORE than 2000 years ago and are the foundation for the life you lead.

Rule -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/12/2009 11:20:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig If he was so set on freeing Judah, then what's with all the "render unto Caesar" stuff? Why the absence of any political aspect to his message? All his teachings were purely personal, what each individual should do, not what Jews as a people should do. Quite. To pay taxes to the king (Caesar / God) is one of the core tenets of Christianity.

Arpig -> RE: Christianity, your doing it wrong (8/12/2009 8:36:23 PM)
quote: I was watching Judge Judy one day during the trial and she said to the defendant if it doesn't make sense it's a lie. And a lot about religion doesn't make sense so I wouldn't take it too seriously. Just try to do the right thing and do good in your life and don't worry so much about something that was written 2000 years ago when we didn't have any science and did not understand much and couldn't explain much either. That is about the 4th or 5th time you have trotted out that same damned Judge Judy line. What is it with you and her, you trying to elevate her to the status of a philosopher or something? Surely you can find something better to base life's decisions on than the sayings of a friggin TV character.

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